Oil lease access?

[CMMahy]

How is that any different than the ski lifts?

A ski lift is a moving structure that requires a substantial cost to man and operate, a road is simply a bit of ground that's been modified to allow easier passage by a vehicle. Requires no money to operate a road, but maintenance can cost quite a bit (If you classify grading and plowing under maintenance).

I don't know the answers, I'm new out here from Ontario and trying to figure out the access thing as well.

[eric2381]

Does anybody have anything that is solid and standing on this? Like a spot to find the rules of this and not hearsay or the way they themselves think of it?

There is certain roads I'd like to travel way down into, then WALK for a bit, that are locked.

[elkhunter11]

How is that any different than the ski lifts?

Ski lifts are generally private property,not public property.

[stephen189]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

They expect me to call them, even if I'm just going to drive a few fence posts, across their lease. The pipe, incidentally, is about 8 ft. down.
Grizz

Pipelines can be buried at any depth, even fully exposed at times. Have you buried every pipeline in Alberta at 8ft personally?? No you haven't so how can you state that every pipeline is 8 feet deep? Soil erosion accounts for loss of depth, farming land over buried facilities can result in loss of depth, flowing water results in loss of depth. Not every pipeline was laid at the same depth to begin with.

You cannot legally drive onto a lease site without permission. Can i drive down a few fence posts in your yard? Or do I have to call you first?

People can do as they please, and will.. Shooting or breaking off locks and trespassing is exactly what we hunters need to be doing to ensure that we have more and more land taken away from us for hunting privileges. So keep up the great attitudes!

[Walleyes]

Its not about trespassing,, you can't trespass on land that you own and that's what this is about keeping what belongs to the people of this province. If you choose to bend over and take it from the big companies go for it,, but don't condemn those of us that stand up for what is ours... Some buddy in one of these companies fed you some B.S. or you are trying to spread B.S. either way it don't fly with those of us in the know.. You go ahead and turn back at every one of these gates,, just leaves more room for the rest of us..

[pdfish]

Originally Posted by stephen189

You cannot legally drive onto a lease site without permission. Can i drive down a few fence posts in your yard? Or do I have to call you first?

Absolute BS, maybe a gas plant with a locked fence but not plain old lease sites. I tell you what, I'll be talking with my cousin tomorrow who is a lease operator down the Elk River road. Let me ask him, I'll get back to you. Oh and by the way, my yard is private property that I OWN , not lease and you would have been more than welcome to come and pound posts when I was building a retaining wall this summer.

[MikeK]

Try calling SRD they'll tell you that you can access the land, just in compliance with restictions, foot, atv or onhiway vehicles, oil leases are the same as cattle leases. you can go on all you want under these restrictions, the bush would be alot better place if aleast a few laws were upheld, and guys tried getting out of the trucks once and a while, or drive around the gates and risk the fines.

[bearbuster]

The SRD must have some pull. On the trunk road we were leaving all gates open for the last 10 years.
This past spring, the company I work for received a letter stating that all gates on the west side of the road must be locked at all times, meaning locked behind you when you enter. the fines are up to $5000 per incident that gate is found unlocked. This was a government order and signs are posted stating such.

[deanmc]

Originally Posted by hal53

Key part of your comment, is "that they build and maintain"..yes, they have a lease agreement for access and location, yes, they can restrict that if they choose (most don't)...as they HAVE to maintain it...and yes you are free to walk around all the crown land you want to,...access it from the next cutline on your feet, instead of wrecking the road after 3 days of rain to make it that extra 300 yds....that's where the p****ng matches occur....miles of public land around,,but guys insist they have to travel on "this" 90 ft. of it!!!!!!! because it's "theirs"

Thats funny since I have been paid by a company that owns one of these roads to remove a gate.

Because SRD was going to fine them if it was not removed.

[deerassassin]

[QUOTE=stephen189;399741]Pipelines can be buried at any depth, even fully exposed at times. Have you buried every pipeline in Alberta at 8ft personally?? No you haven't so how can you state that every pipeline is 8 feet deep? Soil erosion accounts for loss of depth, farming land over buried facilities can result in loss of depth, flowing water results in loss of depth. Not every pipeline was laid at the same depth to begin with.

dude your a dick

[PoppaW]

When I worked in the bush we went by two gates. One was well known and was put up by an oil company. The middle of the gate was high enough to get an ATV through. The other was leading into a cutblock area that was sensitive moose habitat and Fish and Wildlife made the company put it up. They didn't like the gate or the 1 lock per day in hunting season that was shot off.
Cutting or shooting locks on gates makes us all look like Fudds. Why do we have to drive everywhere? Before all this access was in place we walked or used a horse or ATV.
The operator in question may have been told by his boss to put the run on hunters. He may not be an a** afterall. My boss told us to follow hunters and get plates after one of our door handles was shot with a .22. It was a nice group but it would have been hazardous if any shots got through the door. When pulling the door apart to fix it( in my spare time. Yeah right) We found a few bullets still intact. Makes you wonder. A vicious cycle, Mad about the gate so we shoot equipment and more gates go up.

[Walleyes]

You know what PoppaW,, its got nothing to do with looking like Elmer Fudd and everything to do maintaining rights as public land owners and keeping what is our's.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

You know what PoppaW,, its got nothing to do with looking like Elmer Fudd and everything to do maintaining rights as public land owners and keeping what is our's.

I don't agree with you Walleyes. Anytime you're shooting locks and breaking things, you look like a Fudd. If you want it opened and rules changed/clarified, there are proper channels to go through, being a Fudd doesn't help anyone's cause.

I don't know what the rules are exactly regarding access, but here's my take on it from being an active driller up in Peace country and dealing with plenty of this from both sides - SRD tries VERY hard to limit roads and cuts for this very reason, (which can be a real pain for the oil companies, but we try to work with them) it gives everyone a sense of entitlement to access via those roads. SRD wants the gates locked and roads closed, and for good reason, because as soon as the public, and in particular certain demogprahics of the public, have simple vehicle access, game populations CRASH. Oil companies want the roads closed for their safety, the safety of their equipment, and to minimize maintenance costs. Hunters it seems to me, just want easy vehicle access to areas where it didn't previously exist. That's fine in some cases, but not all.

I don't deny the fact that anyone has, and should have, access to the crown land that these roads and leases are built on, where I do see an issue is the belief that the public should have unfettered access to these roads and sites. The fact that a road was built, by contract and lease agreement between an oil company and the gov't, should in no way automatically grant the general public the right to use that road with their vehicles.

Everyone is welcome to access that crown exactly the way they did BEFORE the roads and leases went in there - aka on foot or ATV trail. Driving your truck in there on lease is NOT your right IMHO.

At any rate, that's my take on it, feel free to flame away.

Waxy

[Walleyes]

WEll waxy I'm not going to flame you for what you beleive is right. Bit if you choose to be bullied by these big companies thats your choice,, but I won't join you..

Please read the following and understand the difference between an LO.O. and Agriculture Leased land.

Access to Public Lands
Hunters are reminded that our privilege to access public lands is contingent upon courtesy and responsible conduct. It is the hunter’s responsibility to know, understand and abide by access conditions that apply when using and enjoying these areas.

From the Regulations

In addition to privately owned land, permission is always required before entering or crossing:

Indian reserves (from appropriate band council),

Métis settlements (from appropriate Métis settlement association)
Public land under agricultural or grazing lease (from leaseholder), please visit

No where does this include lands held under an L.O. which is a commercial agreement , totally different from and agriculture agreement.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

WEll waxy I'm not going to flame you for what you beleive is right. Bit if you choose to be bullied by these big companies thats your choice,, but I won't join you..

Please read the following and understand the difference between an LO.O. and Agriculture Leased land.

Access to Public Lands
Hunters are reminded that our privilege to access public lands is contingent upon courtesy and responsible conduct. It is the hunter’s responsibility to know, understand and abide by access conditions that apply when using and enjoying these areas.

From the Regulations

In addition to privately owned land, permission is always required before entering or crossing:

Indian reserves (from appropriate band council),

Métis settlements (from appropriate Métis settlement association)
Public land under agricultural or grazing lease (from leaseholder), please visit

No where does this include lands held under an L.O. which is a commercial agreement , totally different from and agriculture agreement.

How are they "bullying" you? I don't get it.

They're putting gates across roads they've built under lease agreement with the gov't.

You remain free to access all of the remaining crown land, just not by using their roads.

Seems pretty simple to me, and I don't see how your rights have been abused or you've been bullied. Inconvenient? Sure, but it was inconvenient before the road was there too. If you want to be able to drive in on roads and hunt from your truck, make an application, spend the money, and build your own road. Blunt, but IMHO, realistic.

Waxy

P.S. You may want to reread this part of what you posted - Hunters are reminded that our privilege to access public lands is contingent upon courtesy and responsible conduct.

[Hunting Alberta]

BULL**** BULL**** BULL**** thats what i think of the oilfield this country was beautifull before all these roads and holes were punched in the ground it not only caused alot of stress on the actuall number of animals due to lack of cover in certain areas and over hunting from the ease of access and all the ****in invert they pumped into our water tables(the sick animals/fewer animals we see wasnt an accident) there are certain red gates i do beleive are in place for good reason mainly out of season unliscenced harvest in sensitive ungulate habitat which i can agree with but the douche bag operators keepin people out cuz they would like to be the only ones huntin in there is BULL**** i am willing to bet i know exactly where you were south of hinton F*&^ those guys they dont own our woods nor do they own our critters they can take there boom/bust economy and shove it up there rears.

[Walleyes]

Well waxy we just going to have to agree to disagree on this issue..

But I just want to clarify one thing here.. Please do not classify me as a road hunter,, I do at times use a truck to scout from and use it as a transportation tool , but believe me I put more miles on on my feet than most and when necessary and available and if allowed I use a quad just all depends on the situation or game being hunted.

My point in all this is to stand our ground as land owner's, just remember that "WE" are the land owner's not the companies you take it from there.

[NCC]

There hasn't been a drilling rig or a road into the headwaters of the Blackstone and Opabin for 30 (or maybe 40) years and there is less game there than anywhere else I have ever hunted. An acre of pipeline right of way or road ditch that is seeded with tame forage will provide more nutrition to an ungulate than a 100 acres of old growth bush. Buried invert? The ERCB and Ab Environment would fine a company into extinction if they ever buried an invert sump. In my humble opinion, the biggest effect roads have on ungulate populations is allowing wolves to travel great distances in the winter with ease, therefore making it easier for them to find prey.

I've tried finding the regulations on this (and couldn't) but it looks like the road gates are locked or unlocked or a case by case basis as determined by the local SRD office. I'm not sure how one would find out which locks are arbitrarily placed by the oil company and which ones are mandated by SRD, but if you feel that you can shoot the locks of the gates, why do let the mine stop you from shooting a ram on the mine property at Cadomin? The next time you see a cat rolling the trees back on a pipeline, you should insist that they leave the brush windrowed as it impedes your ability to travel the pipelines when they scatter the trees back on the lines.

Whether you're shooting (or prying) the locks of a road gate, shooting holes in a sign, camping on a lease, or shooting a seperator building, it does make you look like a Fudd hunter to the general public.

[Hunting Alberta]

Originally Posted by NCC

The ERCB and Ab Environment would fine a company into extinction if they ever buried an invert sump..

Cuz when they drill with invert none of it whatsoever makes t into our water tables does it?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Hunting Alberta

Cuz when they drill with invert none of it whatsoever makes t into our water tables does it?

By the time they get to using Invert, the ground water zone is sealed by the surface casing

[DoUCWhatIC]

The gates on private roads on crown land are a condition placed on the companies by SRD. The companies cannot erect gates at their discretion. That is illegal use of public land. When gates are a condition of the L.O.C. (Licence of Occupation) the company must keep the gate closed or face a possible administrative penalty form SRD. If you are not sure about the status of a gate on crown land contact the local public lands officer of SRD or contact your local game warden. Every legit gate has a file associated to it and can be accessed by SRD staff. If the gate you encountered is illegal and it has prevented you from accessing public land and interfered with your lawful hunt then there is a case for a charge under the wildlife act: Section 47(1) - Interfere with lawful hunting.

Gates are an overused wildlife management tool. SRD has recognized this but had done a deplorable job of managing them. Unfortunately there seems to be no political will to rectify the issue. Most gates were never intended to prevent your enjoyment of public lands. You can access gated roads on foot, horse or ATV. The intention was to prevent highway vehicles! Unfortunately, some government employee drafted signs that say "unlawful motorized access" is not allowed. That does not mean ATVs. Again there is no will to change the signage. One of the biggest excuses SRD may give you is that the LOCs are issued for 25 year periods so nothing can be done until the LOC expires and is re-visited.

Even most oil company employees and even employees at manned gates don't know the conditions (as demonstrated in this thread). Sadly, many gates are left open much of the year and there is no enforcement action taken by Public Lands Officers with SRD. Come hunting season the gates are suddenly closed and locked. That means the operator has decided to exclude the public from those areas during the hunting season. Your neighbor who works for Trilogy, Exxon, etc, etc is determining who has access!

I have beat my head against the government wall with this issue and sadly I have yet to find any will within SRD, excepting some game wardens, who have any gumption to tackle this: no wildlife biologists, no public lands officers, no SRD managers, no forest officers, absolutely no one! I am not in a position to lodge a former complaint.

Did you know that is a government policy to respond to each and every written public complaint or request for information? Food for thought!

[timba]

Originally Posted by sparky660

I was under the impression that if the oil company built the road to the lease that it was under their control who has access to use it. No different than the lease where the wellhead is located. That is why alot of the lease access road in the Grande cache area have security shacks. Maybe I'm wrong.

The oil companies pay for the roads just like a lease,we have to maintain them.I think thats why some have security to stop public from using it.In GC isn't it Canadian forest that has that north of town?

I have never told any one to get off our roads and never will but being on the lease is different.Me and my buddies north of llyod aways park on a lease when we go bear hunting,we have ran into the operator on the lease and never said boo about it.

[srp71]

I think what it all boils down to is the responsible ones get lumped in with the rest.Just because I like/choose to drive to my favorite hunting spot does that mean I am like the friday night warrior with a bottle of Gibson's,a kazillion watt light and a jacked up 4x4 shooting up the batteries and tanks and driving over/around the gates.There are gates on alot of places because of this stupidity.Sometimes these operators just get plain old sick and tired of repairing this stuff or better yet being inside a shack and hearing gun shots cause some hilbilly is "just sightin in my rifle"on the LSD sign at the lease entrance.I like to wear off some boot leather or ride my quad or road hunt oh wait I mean SPOT and STALK too.Ive traveled alot of the lease roads Edson/Robb/Hinton/Pinecreek/Kaybob and have never had an incident with anyone,but I stay off the leases,turn around at the gate or whatever.I dont wanna give anyone the excuse to try and say I was stopped by the seperator shack doingstealing/vandalizeing something.Remeber trail cams have other uses.
I have a few friends who are operators in these areas and its always the same story.Someone stole this or broke that or shot the hell outta something.And lets not forget the guys mudbogging on the leases or lease roads.
Hmmm I wonder why theres a gate here?

[mulecrazy]

I have done a little research and got some info from a guy who has a photographic memory. He is not sure the exact year but it was in the 80's that things changed a bit. Prior to the change both the roads and the well lease site were covered and can be fenced and locked at the oil companies discretion. The newer ones after the change have only the well lease site that can be fenced and locked. However, If the company can show a need that is approved by the government any newer wells and roads can be fenced and locked. Sour wells are legally required to have specific fence styles and should be locked at all times.

[mad fisher]

The main reason for having a locked road is for the safety of the general public. H2S is deadly! Along the foothills and into the mountains there are numerous sour gas facilities and wells.

To keep out the general public the gates are put across the road to prevent Joe Blow from becoming another stat.

I do work in the pipeline end of things and I have seen first hand the devastating effect that a small leak in a sour gas pipeline and what it can do.
It is like someone turned off the switch...you just drop...there is no coughing or light headedness....just done....

Imagine your wife getting a call that you were found dead on a well site....why were you there? Because it is MY LAND....

Remember this the next time you are out scouting or hunting...take those signs seriously. H2S mean keep away.....unless you have a meter that is

And for the most part if you do call before entering they will usually tell you the combination to the gate and just ask for you to lock up. And they will tell you where to stay away from or even more importantly where people are working so you don't buzz their tower...

I have combos for numerous gates and which I still use from years ago....the only time they change is when someone shoots them off.

Mad

[Kale 19]

The plain and simple answer to the question is that unless an access restriction is imposed by a GOVERNMENT BODY for some reason, such as sensitive wildlife area, industry can not restrict access to public lands. They may try for obvious reasons such as maintaining their roads under wet conditions or for liability reasons on sour wells however if you ever find yourself locked in or out of public land and there is no signage posted by govt authority, you may do what you like to get in or out, and if it was me locked in I can tell you that whomevers gate it may be, they might as well stare looking for a new one because it would be comming down very quickly. All that being said, the proper course of action is to use respect. Try talking to the operator first and if there is another way in, use the other way in.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by Kale 19

The plain and simple answer to the question is that unless an access restriction is imposed by a GOVERNMENT BODY for some reason, such as sensitive wildlife area, industry can not restrict access to public lands. They may try for obvious reasons such as maintaining their roads under wet conditions or for liability reasons on sour wells however if you ever find yourself locked in or out of public land and there is no signage posted by govt authority, you may do what you like to get in or out, and if it was me locked in I can tell you that whomevers gate it may be, they might as well stare looking for a new one because it would be comming down very quickly. All that being said, the proper course of action is to use respect. Try talking to the operator first and if there is another way in, use the other way in.

Read my post above. older well sites and their roads can be locked at any time and you have no legal right to access on that road. Newer lease roads are different.

[jip911]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

I have done a little research and got some info from a guy who has a photographic memory. He is not sure the exact year but it was in the 80's that things changed a bit. Prior to the change both the roads and the well lease site were covered and can be fenced and locked at the oil companies discretion. The newer ones after the change have only the well lease site that can be fenced and locked. However, If the company can show a need that is approved by the government any newer wells and roads can be fenced and locked. Sour wells are legally required to have specific fence styles and should be locked at all times.

Mulecrazy, In another life I spent a number of years on sour sites and I can without a doubt say you are wrong with your statement in bold above...99% of the sour sites I visited had no locked gates...

Seems there is more speculation than facts thrown around this thread... It would sure be nice to have a definitive government publication on this matter...

[Walleyes]

You know what ??? it's the same fricken argument every year one here !!!

Tell you what guy's turn around at the gates,, sounds just about perfect to me..

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by jip911

Mulecrazy, In another life I spent a number of years on sour sites and I can without a doubt say you are wrong with your statement in bold above...99% of the sour sites I visited had no locked gates...

Seems there is more speculation than facts thrown around this thread... It would sure be nice to have a definitive government publication on this matter...

Actually there are specific regulations around sour gas well sites. Even as far into detail as the size of the holes in the chain link fence. They must have the diagonal barbed wire on the top. And they are supposed to be locked up. The key word is supposed. I agree that a majority are not locked, but they should be. There is also laws around grandfathered sites that factor in. I guess I should also clarify that these laws come into effect on anything greater than 1 % H2S. Sorry for leaving that out before.
cheers.