CHAS ranges shut down.....again

[Redneck 7]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The one to 800

Thanks Mark.

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

The one to 800

So one range open and I forgot how many shooting stations on that range...and there are how many current members??

I suppose I should have something to do while waiting in line for my turn at the bench, weekends should be interesting.

[tikka250]

Always see the trials and tribulations at ranges close to cities and it reminds me how much I love living in the middle of nowhere. Always a bench, no range closures and piles of long and close range steel available.

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Bureaucracy at its finest. Pukes.

CB in the north do I know you ? Are you a 3 gunner ? Can maybe come do your load development at my acreage. 200 yards. Table.

That is a heck of an offer. I thank you, but I'll manage one way or another. Very generous of you.

We possibly know each other, but I don't think so. I've watched a 3-gun shoot once, but never joined. Looked fun for those in it.

[savage shooter]

Sad to say but this is self inflicted. The executive cannot handle questions or being questioned. They do not know how to deal with people, especially Steve.

This whole thing could have been solved with an olive branch early on and finding a compromise but those are absolutely not skills that the senior executives posses, sadly.

The executive have taken a situation that, frankly, they created and when it was bad they made it worse and worse and worse. Now they're taking an even harder line and vowing to fight to the end. What a bunch of clowns.

[DiabeticKripple]

I feel that CDTSA Shepard has its days numbered as well. One bullet went into someones home a few years ago

[Big Sky]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I feel that CDTSA Shepard has its days numbered as well.

The new housing development to the south ( Hotchkiss ) will be the end of the Shepard range. The new district is less than half a mile away and I have no doubt the developers want the range shut down.
The new pipes that you have to shoot through pretty much ensure that bullets stay within the range. Even with that level of safety, I'll be surprised if we are shooting there next year.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[A.H.]

I don't comment often but feel I need to comment on this one. This goes for all types of clubs, be it Shooting ranges, Fish and Game clubs, Kids Sports Clubs, Community Leagues, etc. I see some forum members are complaining how this is the executives fault. The executive doesn't listen to the members, The Executive is a Good Ol Boys Club.

The comment I have is, if you don't like what your executive is doing, attend the meetings and direct your executive on what you would like to see happen. Or better yet, VOLUNTEER and become part of the executive. It is easy to pay your money and then sit back, take advantage of all of the perks of the club, and b***h about what you don't like.

True members that care attend the meetings and volunteer wherever/whenever they can. They try and make their community's better. Being "too busy" to help, is just an excuse. It is because of these members that all types of Clubs are closing their doors. Executive eventually get burnt out, but there is nobody stepping up to take on the role.

Everybody need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves, what did I do to make my community better, not complain about how bad their community is.

I am not a member of CHAS, but do sit on the executive for a Fish and Game/Gun Club. I coach my children's sports, or if I don't coach, I help out wherever I can. I also run my own small business. If I have time, everybody else can find a little time to help out.

A.H

[DLab]

Originally Posted by A.H.

I don't comment often but feel I need to comment on this one. This goes for all types of clubs, be it Shooting ranges, Fish and Game clubs, Kids Sports Clubs, Community Leagues, etc. I see some forum members are complaining how this is the executives fault. The executive doesn't listen to the members, The Executive is a Good Ol Boys Club.

The comment I have is, if you don't like what your executive is doing, attend the meetings and direct your executive on what you would like to see happen. Or better yet, VOLUNTEER and become part of the executive. It is easy to pay your money and then sit back, take advantage of all of the perks of the club, and b***h about what you don't like.

True members that care attend the meetings and volunteer wherever/whenever they can. They try and make their community's better. Being "too busy" to help, is just an excuse. It is because of these members that all types of Clubs are closing their doors. Executive eventually get burnt out, but there is nobody stepping up to take on the role.

Everybody need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves, what did I do to make my community better, not complain about how bad their community is.

I am not a member of CHAS, but do sit on the executive for a Fish and Game/Gun Club. I coach my children's sports, or if I don't coach, I help out wherever I can. I also run my own small business. If I have time, everybody else can find a little time to help out.

A.H

Thank you AH,
Unfortunately, this is pretty much true. Those that do Volunteer that don't know this going in, find out in short order that there are basically a handful of people doing everything and most are the Execs/Directors.
I'm not talking just about the decisions needed to run on a daily basis, but also Range maintenance over all, grass cutting, tree watering, garbage, washrooms, back board replacement, repairs to targets/stands, gongs, installation of same, ordering/pickup/delivery of infrastructure etc.etc.etc.
The list goes on, most Members really have no idea how much time and effort is involved in the day to day operations of a Range with 800-1,000 Members.

Monthly meeting attendance is the Execs./Directors, 6-8 people.
We just held our AGM, we need a Quorum (25 people) minimum according to by-laws, we had EXACTLY that, luckily a Members Wife showed at the last minute, out of 900 paid members.

The good part is that none of the Execs/Directors ever complain ,very rarely do you hear, they know this is the reality and I'm not complaining, like AH I'm commenting on what some may not realize or know. I haven't touched on CFO and RCMP guide lines, cease fire protocols, ricochet templates etc. that need to be followed and reinforced...then the Range Nazi comments come out.
Long story short, if you want change, Volunteer, get involved and make it happen.
Anyway, minor rant over.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by DLab

Thank you AH,
Unfortunately, this is pretty much true. Those that do Volunteer that don't know this going in, find out in short order that there are basically a handful of people doing everything and most are the Execs/Directors.
I'm not talking just about the decisions needed to run on a daily basis, but also Range maintenance over all, grass cutting, tree watering, garbage, washrooms, back board replacement, repairs to targets/stands, gongs, installation of same, ordering/pickup/delivery of infrastructure etc.etc.etc.
The list goes on, most Members really have no idea how much time and effort is involved in the day to day operations of a Range with 800-1,000 Members.

Monthly meeting attendance is the Execs./Directors, 6-8 people.
We just held our AGM, we need a Quorum (25 people) minimum according to by-laws, we had EXACTLY that, luckily a Members Wife showed at the last minute, out of 900 paid members.

The good part is that none of the Execs/Directors ever complain ,very rarely do you hear, they know this is the reality and I'm not complaining, like AH I'm commenting on what some may not realize or know. I haven't touched on CFO and RCMP guide lines, cease fire protocols, ricochet templates etc. that need to be followed and reinforced...then the Range Nazi comments come out.
Long story short, if you want change, Volunteer, get involved and make it happen.
Anyway, minor rant over.

This is a thread about CHAS. Feel free to comment, specifically if you have been a member, are a member, or sit on the board.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by A.H.

I don't comment often but feel I need to comment on this one. This goes for all types of clubs, be it Shooting ranges, Fish and Game clubs, Kids Sports Clubs, Community Leagues, etc. I see some forum members are complaining how this is the executives fault. The executive doesn't listen to the members, The Executive is a Good Ol Boys Club.

The comment I have is, if you don't like what your executive is doing, attend the meetings and direct your executive on what you would like to see happen. Or better yet, VOLUNTEER and become part of the executive. It is easy to pay your money and then sit back, take advantage of all of the perks of the club, and b***h about what you don't like.

True members that care attend the meetings and volunteer wherever/whenever they can. They try and make their community's better. Being "too busy" to help, is just an excuse. It is because of these members that all types of Clubs are closing their doors. Executive eventually get burnt out, but there is nobody stepping up to take on the role.

Everybody need to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves, what did I do to make my community better, not complain about how bad their community is.

I am not a member of CHAS, but do sit on the executive for a Fish and Game/Gun Club. I coach my children's sports, or if I don't coach, I help out wherever I can. I also run my own small business. If I have time, everybody else can find a little time to help out.

A.H

Ha
So when are you joining and running for a spot on the board
Must be nice to have all that free time
Your obviously missing what the issue is
People pay to be members at a gun range
Yet they aren’t able to access the facility because it is continually closed due to events for non members
I am a member at this facility, solely for the purpose of being able to shoot out to 880 yards. I could easily do it at our farm, but I’d rather not spook the animals.
Here’s a news flash, people don’t want to be involved in all the drama
They just want to use the facilities that they paid to access

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Originally Posted by savage shooter

Sad to say but this is self inflicted. The executive cannot handle questions or being questioned. They do not know how to deal with people, especially Steve.

This whole thing could have been solved with an olive branch early on and finding a compromise but those are absolutely not skills that the senior executives posses, sadly.

The executive have taken a situation that, frankly, they created and when it was bad they made it worse and worse and worse. Now they're taking an even harder line and vowing to fight to the end. What a bunch of clowns.

I totally agree.

The context of the emails that the excuctive have sent out more than suggests a confrontational attitude they have towards the situation, no diplomacy whats so ever, just a lot of chest thumping.

And who suffers?, the membership as a whole.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by DLab

Thank you AH,
Unfortunately, this is pretty much true. Those that do Volunteer that don't know this going in, find out in short order that there are basically a handful of people doing everything and most are the Execs/Directors.
I'm not talking just about the decisions needed to run on a daily basis, but also Range maintenance over all, grass cutting, tree watering, garbage, washrooms, back board replacement, repairs to targets/stands, gongs, installation of same, ordering/pickup/delivery of infrastructure etc.etc.etc.
The list goes on, most Members really have no idea how much time and effort is involved in the day to day operations of a Range with 800-1,000 Members.

Monthly meeting attendance is the Execs./Directors, 6-8 people.
We just held our AGM, we need a Quorum (25 people) minimum according to by-laws, we had EXACTLY that, luckily a Members Wife showed at the last minute, out of 900 paid members.

The good part is that none of the Execs/Directors ever complain ,very rarely do you hear, they know this is the reality and I'm not complaining, like AH I'm commenting on what some may not realize or know. I haven't touched on CFO and RCMP guide lines, cease fire protocols, ricochet templates etc. that need to be followed and reinforced...then the Range Nazi comments come out.
Long story short, if you want change, Volunteer, get involved and make it happen.
Anyway, minor rant over.

It doesn't matter whether the club has 500 members or 2500 members, it is always a handful of people that do most of the work, and a handful that complain the most. But I have been involved with two clubs that were taken over by a specific group of people, that wanted to run the club for themselves, and not for the members. One was many years ago, and it finally took a group of members to run for the executive, and bring enough people to the AGM/elections, to vote them in, and take over the executive, and return the club to the general membership. The other takeover is happening now, a certain group ran out the elected president, and they have taken control, and are making change after change to suit themselves. And with all meetings remaining virtual, there is no way to get concerns heard, or to hold this group accountable. Only in this situation, this group has hired a full time person to do most of the maintenance work, so they don’t have to.
So yes, while in most cases the executive does the bulk of the work, and there is nobody else willing to volunteer to work or take an executive role, there are exceptions, where the executive has been using the club facilities, for their own agendas. I have served on two range executives, and still serve on one, and I have seen both well run executives, and very poorly run executives.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by sns2

This is a thread about CHAS. Feel free to comment, specifically if you have been a member, are a member, or sit on the board.

I apologise for the non specific comments, AH isn't a Member of CHAS either.

Mods feel free to remove my previous post.

[nekred]

I am a member at CHAS this is very unfortunate news and regardless of how it is happening or why it is quite disturbing.

I appreciate being able to use the range and all the work put in by many people is very evident. I like being able to go to a location and using my firearms safely under controlled circumstances in an area designated for their use.

Everyone I have seen or met there is great and I have not seen any where anybody's safety was in jeopardy. Every range is safe there has been a lot of attention to safety.

Is this private land or public?

[sns2]

Originally Posted by DLab

I apologise for the non specific comments, AH isn't a Member of CHAS either.

Mods feel free to remove my previous post.

Your comments were bang on for any non-profit group. But, CHAS is a special version of dysfunctional, and I have zero problem with saying it is a board that should be turfed for the long range sake of the membership, and shooting sports in the the Edmonton area.

[sns2]

I also agree with there typically being a small group of people that do the lion's share of the work.

HOWEVER, not all people can spend a weekend day out at the range. Tradesman are often called to work on weekends. Young parents have kids in a myriad of activities. Single guys have women to chase. All kinds of things take precedence over volunteering at a club.

When a club reaches a certain size, add $20 on to pay a retired or semi-retired guy to do the maintenance, and then the range won't look like feces. Simple.

Argue away if you must.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by sns2

I also agree with there typically being a small group of people that do the lion's share of the work.

HOWEVER, not all people can spend a weekend day out at the range. Tradesman are often called to work on weekends. Young parents have kids in a myriad of activities. Single guys have women to chase. All kinds of things take precedence over volunteering at a club.

When a club reaches a certain size, add $20 on to pay a retired or semi-retired guy to do the maintenance, and then the range won't look like feces. Simple.

Argue away if you must.

This. But heaven forbid you ask to use the range you just paid $200 to use.

[A.H.]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Ha
So when are you joining and running for a spot on the board
Must be nice to have all that free time
Your obviously missing what the issue is
People pay to be members at a gun range
Yet they aren’t able to access the facility because it is continually closed due to events for non members
I am a member at this facility, solely for the purpose of being able to shoot out to 880 yards. I could easily do it at our farm, but I’d rather not spook the animals.
Here’s a news flash, people don’t want to be involved in all the drama
They just want to use the facilities that they paid to access

Mark, you completely missed the point. There is more to just "paying" to be a member of a non profit organization. Members dictate what the executive can do. If you do not like the direction the executive is taking (renting the range out to non members), attend a meeting with others that feel the same way you do and make a motion to change what you don't like. If it voted all in favor, the executive has no choice but follow the direction of the membership. Every member should make the effort to attend the meetings.

Here is a news flash, if you don't like what the executive are doing but are too busy to attend meetings/become a true member, quit and find a new club. You can spend your money wherever you like.

A.H

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

I also agree with there typically being a small group of people that do the lion's share of the work.

HOWEVER, not all people can spend a weekend day out at the range. Tradesman are often called to work on weekends. Young parents have kids in a myriad of activities. Single guys have women to chase. All kinds of things take precedence over volunteering at a club.

When a club reaches a certain size, add $20 on to pay a retired or semi-retired guy to do the maintenance, and then the range won't look like feces. Simple.

Argue away if you must.

The simple fact is, that many people could make the time to volunteer if they wanted to, they just can't be bothered. And it's not just actual range maintenance that needs to be done, it's the dealing with the club finances, arranging insurance and range certification, dealing with the CFO, and with outside groups that rent the range, dealing with specialized contractors that do specialized work at the range, and dealing with member issues that take up a lot of time. And the biggest complainers, are never the ones that volunteer to deal with these issues, and they never show up for range maintenance days.
And if you give the executive a break on the membership fee, some people will complain, if you raise rates to hire a maintenance person, some will complain, they expect someone else to do all of the work ,for free, so they can go golfing, or fishing, or just sit at home, instead of doing some of the work themselves. That is what society has become.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by A.H.

Mark, you completely missed the point. There is more to just "paying" to be a member of a non profit organization. Members dictate what the executive can do. If you do not like the direction the executive is taking (renting the range out to non members), attend a meeting with others that feel the same way you do and make a motion to change what you don't like. If it voted all in favor, the executive has no choice but follow the direction of the membership. Every member should make the effort to attend the meetings.

Here is a news flash, if you don't like what the executive are doing but are too busy to attend meetings/become a true member, quit and find a new club. You can spend your money wherever you like.



A.H

Yup, exactly.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The simple fact is, that many people could make the time to volunteer if they wanted to, they just can't be bothered. And it's not just actual range maintenance that needs to be done, it's the dealing with the club finances, arranging insurance and range certification, dealing with the CFO, and with outside groups that rent the range, dealing with specialized contractors that do specialized work at the range, and dealing with member issues that take up a lot of time. And the biggest complainers, are never the ones that volunteer to deal with these issues, and they never show up for range maintenance days.
And if you give the executive a break on the membership fee, some people will complain, if you raise rates to hire a maintenance person, some will complain, they expect someone else to do all of the work ,for free, so they can go golfing, or fishing, or just sit at home, instead of doing some of the work themselves. That is what society has become.

Ummm...entitled?

[savage shooter]

Originally Posted by Cross Eyed Cowboy

I totally agree.

The context of the emails that the excuctive have sent out more than suggests a confrontational attitude they have towards the situation, no diplomacy whats so ever, just a lot of chest thumping.

And who suffers?, the membership as a whole.

Not just towards the situation, but towards the membership. If you do try to speak to them, they will be condescending and if you offer your opinion or advice, Steve will just throw his hands up and say something along the lines of "if you don't like the way it's run come and challenge me at the annual meeting (to take his job)". His aggressive "come at me bro" attitude is childish and completely non-suitable for the role. He is utterly incapable of accepting feedback or criticism.

This situation was created by the executive and their attempt to build a new long range on the south side without having all their ducks in a row, in terms of co-operating with the locals and the county. When issues arose, they didn't attempt diplomacy in any way.

Steve once sent an email to the membership deriding them for having the gaul to ask him what's going on when the range was shut down for a few days. I guess too many people bothered him wanting to know what was going on and that really upset him.

FYI, for those that don't know some of the people commenting here DO volunteer and there is a full time paid employee who's job it is to maintain the range. FYI.

[EdmontonEli]

I don't mind the high fees of membership in order to hire a full time maintenance personnel. In fact, that would be better, since it will make the excuse of "have you volunteered?" a useless shield to hide behind. What does bother me is that fact the ranges are constantly filled with events during the summer/early fall, that literally takes over the entire gun range. On top of that, if you do arrive at the range. Said range is then closed off for a private booking, which by the way, was not even in the calendar until said private booking is occurring.

And here is the fly in the soup. We get told to shut up about the issues if you're not volunteering. Excuse me? Do you realize how high your fees are compared to other ranges?

The only reason, I joined CHAS was for the long range practice and shotgun skeet shooting. That's it. Even then, the long range shooting practice is becoming less relevant to me since dry fire practice satisfy most of my training (95% of it). And shooting real ammo is becoming more expensive as well. As per the shotgun, they do not provide any machines so I only need the field.

I could do all that in crown land. If not, just join a cheaper club. Even if it means leaving the 1000yard range; I could go to crown land for the long range practice.

[DLab]

I'm done making comments ,generally speaking about Clubs.
I just checked out the CHAS website, I have to admit that is one very busy calendar of bookings for Competitions and related events, especially the weekends.
I can understand a Member's level of frustration when all you have is mostly weekends for free time.
There does need to be a balance.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by A.H.

Mark, you completely missed the point. There is more to just "paying" to be a member of a non profit organization. Members dictate what the executive can do. If you do not like the direction the executive is taking (renting the range out to non members), attend a meeting with others that feel the same way you do and make a motion to change what you don't like. If it voted all in favor, the executive has no choice but follow the direction of the membership. Every member should make the effort to attend the meetings.

Here is a news flash, if you don't like what the executive are doing but are too busy to attend meetings/become a true member, quit and find a new club. You can spend your money wherever you like.

A.H

I listened to the president of the club at the time lose his balls on someone who asked to see the long range master plan for the range, that he repeatedly referred to. After his childish tirade, he publicly threatened to quit in front of everyone. I don’t think I have ever seen a more childish display in my life. CHAS was an absolute gong show at that time, and sounds like it still is. They don’t give a rat’s azz because when a group of guys leave, they are quickly replaced by others due to a growing population base. Sad, but it’s damn sure true.

You kinda sound like you are on the board. If so, feel free to tell people, so they can engage you with the questions you guys don’t seem to like answering. It’s all bloody cool and well to have a title, but if you won’t answer questions from the membership, you’ve lost the plot completely. Utterly and flipping completely.

If you are not, that’s cool too. Everyone has their right to an opinion. You should be ready to back it up though.

[Cross Eyed Cowboy]

Originally Posted by A.H.

Here is a news flash, if you don't like what the executive are doing but are too busy to attend meetings/become a true member, quit and find a new club. You can spend your money wherever you like.

A.H

News flash you say??

Typical CHAS executive response to some constructive criticism, opinions or suggestions.

[A.H.]

Originally Posted by sns2

I listened to the president of the club at the time lose his balls on someone who asked to see the long range master plan for the range, that he repeatedly referred to. After his childish tirade, he publicly threatened to quit in front of everyone. I don’t think I have ever seen a more childish display in my life. CHAS was an absolute gong show at that time, and sounds like it still is. They don’t give a rat’s azz because when a group of guys leave, they are quickly replaced by others due to a growing population base. Sad, but it’s damn sure true.

You kinda sound like you are on the board. If so, feel free to tell people, so they can engage you with the questions you guys don’t seem to like answering. It’s all bloody cool and well to have a title, but if you won’t answer questions from the membership, you’ve lost the plot completely. Utterly and flipping completely.

If you are not, that’s cool too. Everyone has their right to an opinion. You should be ready to back it up though.

SN, I am in no way involved with CHAS, not a member or on the board. I am part of the executive for another club. I have no clue about the inner workings or executive of the CHAS club an how they may act at meetings or on the range. My posting here was only to point out how to make the changes you all want. Too many private bookings, stand up and raise your voice. Don't like the executive, stand up and raise your voice. If you want change, you have to stand up and make it happen, not just complain on a forum or to your buddies.

It is important for all Gun Clubs to stay alive and stay open, as we are all slowly being shut down. United we stand, divided we fall.

On this note, I am out of this thread.

Shoot Straight

A.H

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by A.H.

Mark, you completely missed the point. There is more to just "paying" to be a member of a non profit organization. Members dictate what the executive can do. If you do not like the direction the executive is taking (renting the range out to non members), attend a meeting with others that feel the same way you do and make a motion to change what you don't like. If it voted all in favor, the executive has no choice but follow the direction of the membership. Every member should make the effort to attend the meetings.

Here is a news flash, if you don't like what the executive are doing but are too busy to attend meetings/become a true member, quit and find a new club. You can spend your money wherever you like.

A.H

I look at buying a membership at a gun range the same as I would buying one at a golf course. Do I need to sign up and be on the board there too? Not a chance? I pay my money to use the facilities that a membership enables you to use. That’s it. If you like being involved to that extent, good for you. If you think that makes you a better member, good for you. I have memberships at other ranges as well, do I need to be on the board for them too? Like I said previously,
I just use this facility to verify my data 🤷*♂️

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I look at buying a membership at a gun range the same as I would buying one at a golf course. Do I need to sign up and be on the board there too? Not a chance? I pay my money to use the facilities that a membership enables you to use. That’s it. If you like being involved to that extent, good for you. If you think that makes you a better member, good for you. I have memberships at other ranges as well, do I need to be on the board for them too? Like I said previously,
I just use this facility to verify my data 🤷*♂️

If you buy a membership at a for profit range or golf course, then the staff is paid to run the facility. With a non profit, volunteer run facility, someone has to do the work, and if nobody volunteers, the facility closes, it's really that simple.

[saskbooknut]

This is not CHAS specific, but some need to hear this -

You don't just pay your money at a volunteer run, not-for-profit club, unless you are a freeloader.
It's not a commercial service.
Part of your responsibility, as a member of a not-for-profit club, is volunteer labour.
The membership fee is a minor part of the real cost to run a club range.
Don't like the conditions? Find a commercial range.