NOT a CCW thread

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I have been in some very remote places in areas of high bear concentrations and never felt overly worried as long as I had bear spray which is proven more effective than a handgun. Areas where we were dropped off by helicopter with only a two way radio and a hour wait for a helicopter if needed.

Thing that concerns me with all this need a sidearm for bear protection etc is that poor old smokey be minding his own business 80 yards away and the lead will start flying cause someone felt threatened.

If you are that scared of going out in the woods and running into a bear that you think you need to be armed then maybe, the woods ain't the spot for you.

x2

in all honesty, I'm more concerned with startling a moose in the woods then a bear.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I have been in some very remote places in areas of high bear concentrations and never felt overly worried as long as I had bear spray which is proven more effective than a handgun. Areas where we were dropped off by helicopter with only a two way radio and a hour wait for a helicopter if needed.

Thing that concerns me with all this need a sidearm for bear protection etc is that poor old smokey be minding his own business 80 yards away and the lead will start flying cause someone felt threatened.

If you are that scared of going out in the woods and running into a bear that you think you need to be armed then maybe, the woods ain't the spot for you.

You can already carry a rifle which is more deadly to old smokey minding his business 80 yards away.

Would you say that should not be allowed.

You carry bear spray as a precaution, could one say that you are afraid of encountering a bear.

[leeaspell]

Ive always wondered how many guys with an RPAL and own handguns actually say screw it, and pack one along when they hunting. The guy who got attacked by the grizzly in Swan Hills did that last year and it saved his life. So I would assume he took it along every time he was out in the bush, incident free.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by expmler

You can already carry a rifle which is more deadly to old smokey minding his business 80 yards away.

Would you say that should not be allowed.

You carry bear spray as a precaution, could one say that you are afraid of encountering a bear.

I bumped an old thread of mine, you should check it out.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Ive always wondered how many guys with an RPAL and own handguns actually say screw it, and pack one along when they hunting. The guy who got attacked by the grizzly in Swan Hills did that last year and it saved his life. So I would assume he took it along every time he was out in the bush, incident free.

countless people break the law every day without incident.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

I can understand the convenience of a handgun for ranchers checking stock and fences, or riders who's horse went lame on the trail, but equality under the law means that if you allow rural people to own and use handguns you MUST allow everyone else the same rights/privileges.

No, the storage of firearms laws is different for farmers and those way out in the boonies. In the city/town we must have our firearms stored properly and/or with trigger lock,, a farmer doesn't have to,, and understandably so, as it's not hard to be remote in Canada. So the MUST allow part has wiggle room.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Gust

No, the storage of firearms laws is different for farmers and those way out in the boonies. In the city/town we must have our firearms stored properly and/or with trigger lock,, a farmer doesn't have to,, and understandably so, as it's not hard to be remote in Canada. So the MUST allow part has wiggle room.

that's why I pointed it out gust. I see the effect of the first spring new moon is wearing off.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

me, I have no problems with this. I feel current gun laws are a tad bit too restrictive in some ways and far to lenient in others. Well, after re-reading the OP, he clearly states that the law was not intended for the urban public. The legislation would be shot down as it promotes laws via class.

at the same time, those who feel the need that they should have ccw rights for defense need to consider that instead of focusing on this issue which will never gain traction in Canada, they should focus this energy into maybe helping develop a nation and society where ccw is unnecessary.

As far as I understand things, the only time the use of a firearm for self defense is applicable is if you're being shot at. Something that doesn't happen to the majority of Canadians who are not serving in the RCMP, police services or military. So by rights you can use a firearm in defense of home and livelyhood, if someone was shooting at your home. Something about responding with 'like force' or some other such legalese wording.

That would be nice to not need a defense weapon I agree. In this country it seems like we've got a drug problem that seems to be getting worse. I believe that if we could curtail this it would make a safer society.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

That would be nice to not need a defense weapon I agree. In this country it seems like we've got a drug problem that seems to be getting worse. I believe that if we could curtail this it would make a safer society.

the nature of addiction has been well studied. that's a complete de-rail however so my long stick is going to stay in the corner for now.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

the nature of addiction has been well studied. that's a complete de-rail however so my long stick is going to stay in the corner for now.

I was agreeing with you somewhat. Lol

Leaspell, I think it might surprise you how many might be packing.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Ive always wondered how many guys with an RPAL and own handguns actually say screw it, and pack one along when they hunting. The guy who got attacked by the grizzly in Swan Hills did that last year and it saved his life. So I would assume he took it along every time he was out in the bush, incident free.

Like how many handgun shooting sports use shoulder holsters (none, due to the fact one is likely to sweep the muzzle past themselves and/or others while drawing) versus how many shoulder holsters are stocked at WSS and the like? I'd bet that inventory needs the most replenishing around bowhunting season.

[leeaspell]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I was agreeing with you somewhat. Lol

Leaspell, I think it might surprise you how many might be packing.

Nope, probably wouldn't surprise me, I figured the number would actually be quite high, allegedly.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by leeaspell

Nope, probably wouldn't surprise me, I figured the number would actually be quite high, allegedly.

Fish cop said it is quite common

[Gust]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

that's why I pointed it out gust. I see the effect of the first spring new moon is wearing off.

Sorry Berger, I took your post to mean all or naught.

[brownbomber]

Okay my .02
I commented on the other thread. If I lived somewhere that everyday criminals were armed I would likely carry. But where I live I don't feel the need. Never been in a situation where I felt that I couldn't get out of it with confidence and a good outside voice. Or because I'm smart enough to not put myself in that type of situation. Being aware of consequences goes a long way.
As for hunting yes I would like for backup.
As for working around the farm sure why not, but would prefer my AR for that.
As for the guy who said what if your riding and need to euthanize a horse, I've been around them my entire life and have never been in that situation, asked my dad who has had literally hundreds over the years and he said just once in his life.
I think the first few years may be painful as people adjust to a carry law. I think a lot of people would walk with a swagger they didn't have and somebody would get popped for looking at rims or somebody's sneakers.,
Not the greatest thing since the bikini but far from the worst.
Keep it civil guys and hope the thread lasts and something positive comes of it.

[Smokinyotes]

If I could legal carry a handgun, I may not but I would like to be able to have that option. I would probably keep one by the bed though.

[Redfrog]

Whether I open carry, CCW or not is not dependent on whether you know Karate, never had a bad experience with a bear or other beastie, carry spray or roll on deoderant, know swear words, or can run like the wind, all the time screaming like a little girl.

It should be my decision. I have a rifle that can kill a person at several hundred yards, but CCW will turn me into a knuckle dragging neanderthal?

Odd many of the same people who loudly proclaim that legalizing pot will not turn everyone into a drug crazed fool, are the same ones who think carrying a handgun will turn people into crazed killers.

How about if you oppose CCW Don't own a handgun.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Whether I open carry, CCW or not is not dependent on whether you know Karate, never had a bad experience with a bear or other beastie, carry spray or roll on deoderant, know swear words, or can run like the wind, all the time screaming like a little girl.

It should be my decision. I have a rifle that can kill a person at several hundred yards, but CCW will turn me into a knuckle dragging neanderthal?

Odd many of the same people who loudly proclaim that legalizing pot will not turn everyone into a drug crazed fool, are the same ones who think carrying a handgun will turn people into crazed killers.

How about if you oppose CCW Don't own a handgun.

some folks in the Olympics that shoot for canada may feel thats a little severe.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

some folks in the Olympics that shoot for canada may feel thats a little severe.

WOW! I never thought of that

Now that is gonna be a real problem for me here in Bodo

BTW do you any place that sells a Gibberish/English translation guide?

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I think it is all good in certain circumstances.

You need to be very specific about those.

I don' think anyone needs a pistol whose purpose is to shoot another person.

Pretty cut and dry.


I think that idea is one of the greater issues holding back all firearms "rights" or privilege or whatever you want to call it.

It is a huge step from being a firearms enthusiast, to thinking you need to use your piece against another person.

I like the idea of looser transport laws, and the ability to wilderness carry.

Oh, IBTL

Poor.

I'm all for CCW and the right to self defence.

Criminals don't do legal things. If I can stop myself or another from being a victim I will. Problem is, w/o a firearm, I may at one point die to save myself or another.

I'll still do the right thing though. Regardless.

It is foolish to think that police can stop crime against you. When seconds count, they are minutes away. Also it has been ruled that police have no duty to protect any one person.

A firearm makes the smallest, weakest, most vulnerable person equal with their attacker, and on even ground.

How many rapes, violent assaults, deaths, home invasions, have gone on with no opposition?

CCW and carrying a firearm for defence is about JUSTICE vs a limp wristed "justice system".

Justice says if you step outside of the bounds of the law, you take your own life into your own or others hands. You open yourself up.

If you want to live, don't commit violent crime.

Bee guy, pretty dang simple.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

some folks in the Olympics that shoot for canada may feel thats a little severe.

Redfrog made a great argument and THIS response is the best you have?

So you have no argument obviously.

[Wild&Free]

I'd be more in favor of open carry then concealed carry. If you're gonna pack heat, let people know you're packing heat. hiding something like a gun, regardless of intent is not something that would give me a great first impression of a person.

but the fact of the matter is that myself and the majority of Canadians only want to see firearms in public worn by men and women trained and sworn to protect them. Not joe blow who just wants to be prepared for an eventuality that in this nation is unlikely.


I'm curious though, has there ever been an instance where a rancher was caught carrying a handgun, who was charged and convicted of a firearms offense?

norwestalta has said that a fish cop has told him that hunters carrying handguns is a common thing, yet I don't hear or read about many rpal violation charges being filed.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

I'd be more in favor of open carry then concealed carry. If you're gonna pack heat, let people know you're packing heat. hiding something like a gun, regardless of intent is not something that would give me a great first impression of a person.

but the fact of the matter is that myself and the majority of Canadians only want to see firearms in public worn by men and women trained and sworn to protect them. Not joe blow who just wants to be prepared for an eventuality that in this nation is unlikely.


I'm curious though, has there ever been an instance where a rancher was caught carrying a handgun, who was charged and convicted of a firearms offense?

norwestalta has said that a fish cop has told him that hunters carrying handguns is a common thing, yet I don't hear or read about many rpal violation charges being filed.

as far as self defence goes..... concealed is better.....dont let the criminal know whos packing and whos not, keep em guessing....... otherwise they will just pick their victoms(the ones with no guns).... have them concealed and the rapist/mugger will think twice because he has no clue if your packing. ccw.

[Heavy]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Didn't see the ccw thread.

Regarding your current question, the issue is "armed defence". A very condensed version of related history:
defending oneself was strongly discouraged in England. You are a subject and better not think any more of it. The USA fought against the English, and established a nation based on freedom. Canada fought with the English, and English liberalism persists in eastern Canada, and some urban centers. Western Canada was settled mostly by European immigrants who were largely escaping some type of tyranny, and had much stronger hunting and combat traditions. Native cultures obviously took self defense pretty seriously. Thus the divide in opinion, and unlikely the two will ever agree.

Personally I don't see the difference, if its legal to discharge a firearm, why does it matter what type or caliber one shoots with? But logic rarely dominates emotion in this discussion.

Coming from a small farming community in Northern Ontario with a family History in North America (Canada and The USA) dating back to the 1600s. Ancestors brought to this country as Mercenaries from Scotland and Ireland by England. Hessian mercenaries brought to the USA by the English I take extreme exception to your view of this countries division and history! Ontario is judged by the polotics of Toronto and other Urban centers not an accurate reflection of rural Ontario with out this history in warfare and the use of firearms you would still be in Europe possibly living in Tyranny.
Instead of dividing this into an East VS. West thing we would be better served searching out the like minded there is enough problems with Unity in this country with out searching out more opponents.

[recce43]

ANY OF YOU HAD YOUR DOOR KICKED IN BUY SOME DRUG CRAZED PERSON ?
I have when i lived in bowness with my my 2yr old daughter and my ex . liuckly i sent the dog after him then i grabbed my shotgun . called police took them 10 mins to get there they caught him down the rd tryinging to break in another place and the thug was armed .. wish i could have a hand gun in my dresser drawer

[260 Rem]

Perhaps the "new angle" mentioned by 220 should include some discussion of our day-to-day realities.
My reality, which is only based on 67 years is that I was never confronted by a criminal with a gun. The closest I have been to mass shooting is about 8 ft in front of my TV. I have never been threatened or injured by a dangerous animal in the wild, but my neighbors dogs have barked at me...never thought I would need to shoot them.
My bottom line regarding carry in "public places" is that I am not concerned about criminals or wild animals ---my concern is more about the potential for "normal" folks to get silly if they have a bad day, get a bit impared, take exception to my driving..... My world is not a scary place, but I would be uncomfortable with the idea that anyone can pack anywhere. Sorry, but of thousands of students I've seen go through school, I know there are some pretty unpredictable folks out there.
I have no issue with folks using any legal firearm on their own property.

[220swifty]

Originally Posted by recce43

ANY OF YOU HAD YOUR DOOR KICKED IN BUY SOME DRUG CRAZED PERSON ?
I have when i lived in bowness with my my 2yr old daughter and my ex . liuckly i sent the dog after him then i grabbed my shotgun . called police took them 10 mins to get there they caught him down the rd tryinging to break in another place and the thug was armed .. wish i could have a hand gun in my dresser drawer

I wasn't home when it happened, which made it worse. My wife and then infant child were home alone, fast asleep. Some guy, hopped up on who knows what, started beating on our front door at 1 am. My wife yelled at him in no uncertain terms that he was at the wrong house. This only enraged him more, and he started knocking with his boots.

Luckily, her first call was to the neighbor, who promptly came out with his German Shepard and confronted the guy. 911 was called immedeatly after. The guy made an attempt to get physical with the neighbor, which the dog deterred, and then they shouted back and forth for a few minutes before he left the area.

The police finally made their appearance a full 20 minutes after the initial 911 call. This was in the city, so no 'rural detachment' excuse.


I shudder to think what might be different today if we didn't have a neighbor who was home, and who answered that phone call. My wife and child would have been left defenseless in a home that contained plenty of legal firearms, thanks to Canadian law.

This is why I asked this discussion take CCW out of the equation. Why can't we keep a pistol in the nightstand, or a shotgun in the closet, in an 'at the ready' condition?

[260 Rem]

Recce - sounds like it worked out OK with no injuries. Personally, I would not have traded the dog and the shotgun for a handgun. Lucky your armed intruder didn't hurt your dog either. Can you tell us how the situation would have played differently with a handgun?

[leeaspell]

Originally Posted by Heavy

Coming from a small farming community in Northern Ontario with a family History in North America (Canada and The USA) dating back to the 1600s. Ancestors brought to this country as Mercenaries from Scotland and Ireland by England. Hessian mercenaries brought to the USA by the English I take extreme exception to your view of this countries division and history! Ontario is judged by the polotics of Toronto and other Urban centers not an accurate reflection of rural Ontario with out this history in warfare and the use of firearms you would still be in Europe possibly living in Tyranny.
Instead of dividing this into an East VS. West thing we would be better served searching out the like minded there is enough problems with Unity in this country with out searching out more opponents.

Its West vs East on a lot of things here bud, don't see it changing anytime soon.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by recce43

ANY OF YOU HAD YOUR DOOR KICKED IN BUY SOME DRUG CRAZED PERSON ?
I have when i lived in bowness with my my 2yr old daughter and my ex . liuckly i sent the dog after him then i grabbed my shotgun . called police took them 10 mins to get there they caught him down the rd tryinging to break in another place and the thug was armed .. wish i could have a hand gun in my dresser drawer

I had a really weird incident occur with a burglary once & I wish I had one of these then. It would qualify as safe storage, be rapidly accessible and keep the pistol safe from inquisitive little hands; you'll just need a nightstand in which it can fit: