New trapper

[South west trappin RG]

Trapper Gord did a wonderful job of selling the idea of a mandatory trapping course and he'll make a fortune from it. If you are a Trapping Instructor you should do well from it too. Developing a province wide mentoring program would have been a great idea except there's no profit in it.[/QUOTE]





Gordy klassen ( trapper gord ) has put more into trapping Alberta than anyone by far, time and tens of thousands. When Gordy stepped down from the role of the ATA president him and his wife Ali donated a years worth of mortgage payments for the ATA store last fall, he dident have to do that. We need more people like him that use thir time for the good, not making assumptions on forums. Get involved in the ATA they can always use a hand on last receiving dates, meet some new people. There is allot of people out there that would be more than happy to mentor if there was some real interest shown. I am just stating what I know, not trying to get you upset.

[braggadoe]

it would be great, if some how. a reprint, with the ATA's permission. jim Mitchell's article "trapping licenses" from the 2014 winter issue could be stickeyed at the top of the trapping discussion. it would save alot of grief. and lower alot of peoples blood pressure when ever this topic was brought up.


mentoring is a great idea. brain bildsons response on mentoring, from a past thread is spot on.

Quote: "The only problem with mentors is many of them are not up to speed on a lot of modern techniques. The best thing you can do is take the course and then share your new knowledge with your mentor while they share their old knowledge with you."

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by StandsAlone

Well I've been following these threads because I've wanted to get into trapping for quite some time, but after seeing some of these posts and how new guys are talked down to I've changed my mind and I'm going to stay very far away from the trapping and trapping community.

Just worry about trapping and ignore the politics of it. All of the Trappers that I have met have been keen to help me out with advice and encouragement. The mandatory course vs challenging the test is a hot patatoe and I wouldn't let a discussion over it deter you in the least. If you are in the area I'd be happy to show you my sets, shed, etc. Good luck!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by South west trappin RG

Gordy klassen ( trapper gord ) has put more into trapping Alberta than anyone by far, time and tens of thousands. When Gordy stepped down from the role of the ATA president him and his wife Ali donated a years worth of mortgage payments for the ATA store last fall, he dident have to do that. We need more people like him that use thir time for the good, not making assumptions on forums. Get involved in the ATA they can always use a hand on last receiving dates, meet some new people. There is allot of people out there that would be more than happy to mentor if there was some real interest shown. I am just stating what I know, not trying to get you upset.

I'm aware of Gordy's contributions and accomplishments and he deserves all of the accolades that he receives. When I give an issue consideration I try to imagine all of the ramifications of it, and in this case, what Gordy stands to gain from a mandatory course requirement is something that I think is important. It may not be politically correct to say or something that is welcomed to hear, but IMO, it is a valid piece of the puzzle. It's the way that I was trained to think in the Military and I tend to think outside of the box.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I'm aware of Gordy's contributions and accomplishments and he deserves all of the accolades that he receives. When I give an issue consideration I try to imagine all of the ramifications of it, and in this case, what Gordy stands to gain from a mandatory course requirement is something that I think is important. It may not be politically correct to say or something that is welcomed to hear, but IMO, it is a valid piece of the puzzle. It's the way that I was trained to think in the Military and I tend to think outside of the box.

I'm not sure HD if you are aware of Gordy's financial situation. But if somebody is willing to drop a years mortgage payments on a commercial building because he enjoyed his time spent there I don't think the financial winfall of teaching a trappers education course is going to be the key to his financial success. He does it because he loves it.
If it was just about money I imagine he would focus solely on the 170 pieces of equipment or so they currently own. (Cats, track hoes, dump trucks, service vehicles)
I can't say that if I was in his position I would be so generous with my time or money !

[HunterDave]

I'm not trying to smear Gordy's good name, I'm presenting a fact wrt to the issue of making the trapping course mandatory. I think that the optics of owning a trapping school and advocating for a mandatory trapping course is very poor. Regardless of what his motivation was, it doesn't change the fact that he stands to personally gain from it. I've never been accused of being politically correct with my opinions.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I'm not trying to smear Gordy's good name, I'm presenting a fact wrt to the issue of making the trapping course mandatory. I think that the optics of owning a trapping school and advocating for a mandatory trapping course is very poor. Regardless of what his motivation was, it doesn't change the fact that he stands to personally gain from it. I've never been accused of being politically correct with my opinions.

I don't think anybody thought you were trying to smear his good name Dave, I just wasn't sure if you knew his motivation behind it.
It's like when I take time off work to outfit. Compared to just going to work I'm down about 30K per month. But I love it and will continue to do it as long as I'm able.

Now I could be totally wrong about Gordy's motivation but from a business standpoint I don't see it.

[South west trappin RG]

The ATA puts on the majority of the classes, an will in the future

[HunterDave]

No, I don't know what motivated Gordy to advocate for making the trapping course mandatory. It certainly will not attract more people to take up trapping. On the contrary, it will deter people IMO.

Anyway, it's unfortunate that this issue has caused a divide among Trappers. I don't know if Gordy intended to create two classes of Trappers, those with a course and those that challenged the test, but that certainly seems to be the case. Regardless, I never wanted to get involved with the politics of trapping, there are plenty of people that go for that sort of thing. I'm just easily sucked into these types of topics.

[Tfng]

I find myself easily sucked into controversial topics as well Dave, I'm learning though. I'll never post in a thread that has the word wolf in it again lol.

[Long_Range]

I haven't been on for a few days been busy so I'll take the time to read everyone's posts - but Iam sure there is some good info on this thread thanks guys for your posts

L-r

[waterninja]

To the OP. There are basically only 2 ways to get a trapping license but an endless amount of ways to get info. on trapping. A lot have been mentioned on this thread allready, but one resource that I really like is the internet. You can google any question you have about any aspect of trapping and get many articles or videos on the subject.
One show that I personally like is Fur Harvesters NWT on youtube. The fellows name is Andrew Stanley and he has a trapline. He mostly self films, but it is very informative and entertaining.
If you have Wild tv there is a new show about trapping called Trapping Inc. This is also a good show to watch.
Good luck with your future endeavours if you still decide to give trapping a try.

[trigger7mm]

Originally Posted by StandsAlone

Well I've been following these threads because I've wanted to get into trapping for quite some time, but after seeing some of these posts and how new guys are talked down to I've changed my mind and I'm going to stay very far away from the trapping and trapping community. I will say this Torkdiesel you are a real douche on how you talk to people.

StandsAlone, don't let your ideas of becoming a trapper or snareman be discouraged by anyone. It is a wonderful past time. I am a resident snareman who was taught and mentored by my grandpa. I love being out there and doing it. I've taken 112 coyotes and 4 fox so far this winter on my snare sites, and have not had very many yotes at all that didn't die a quick and humane end. I run about 80 snares at any one time, and replace them as I go. I would be more than happy to have you come and spend a couple of days with me next winter if you would like. Maybe I could help you get an idea of how to get started. Feel free to PM me any time if you would like.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

No, I don't know what motivated Gordy to advocate for making the trapping course mandatory. It certainly will not attract more people to take up trapping. On the contrary, it will deter people IMO.

Anyway, it's unfortunate that this issue has caused a divide among Trappers. I don't know if Gordy intended to create two classes of Trappers, those with a course and those that challenged the test, but that certainly seems to be the case. Regardless, I never wanted to get involved with the politics of trapping, there are plenty of people that go for that sort of thing. I'm just easily sucked into these types of topics.

I would think what motivated Gordy was some sort of at least minimal training for new trappers. Residents, would be line holders and junior partners included.
As far as not attracting new trappers I would have to disagree. Would you have not taken up this business/hobby if you had to take a mandatory course before getting started HD ? Would you pass on all the enjoyment it has brought you for the sake of $500 or so ? (sometimes more / sometimes less)
So the question becomes is it the funds that are preventing people from being able to take the course ? Or is it just new trappers don't feel they should be forced into taking the course ?

Because I obviously feel strongly about new trappers taking the course I'd like to help out a few new trappers that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the course if funds are indeed the issue. The first three people that PM me that want to take the course but can't afford it I'll cover 100% of the course fees myself. You'll be responsible for getting yourself there and meals and such but the course itself will be covered. Only requirements are you are a new trapper, young or old, man or women that wouldn't be able to pay for the course.

[Hydro1]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Because I obviously feel strongly about new trappers taking the course I'd like to help out a few new trappers that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the course if funds are indeed the issue. The first three people that PM me that want to take the course but can't afford it I'll cover 100% of the course fees myself. You'll be responsible for getting yourself there and meals and such but the course itself will be covered. Only requirements are you are a new trapper, young or old, man or women that wouldn't be able to pay for the course.

I have no idea if this is a sincere offer. Edit:after rereading I'm sure it is.
Myy respect towards you has increased tenfold.
That's ought to be the nicest offer I have ever seen online.
Nothing else to say really. Wish I saw more of these types of posts around here.
Good on you sir!!!

[Torkdiesel]

It certainly is a sincere offer Hydro 1. If I can help out a few people get into a pass time that they normally wouldn't that has given me so much enjoyment I'm more then happy to help.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

It certainly is a sincere offer Hydro 1. If I can help out a few people get into a pass time that they normally wouldn't that has given me so much enjoyment I'm more then happy to help.

Wow! That is really quite an offer. You might disagree with Tork on the merits of taking the trappers course vs challenging the test but he certainly put his money where his mouth is.
Good on you Tork. Very generous offer that will hopefully be taken up by some deserving newbies. Heck, I was tempted and I allready got my resident license this year.

[braggadoe]

sweet offer tork! i know we've(my wife) has taken advantage of south countries incentive program to get her license. money/time very well spent.

there isn't two classes of trappers. taken the course vs challenged the test. every body is the same.

but what is disturbing is that some people feel that just trapping private land as a resident trapper is somewhat "less" than having an rmfa. and that someday, maybe they'll step up and get a line.

the amount of fur that is available on private land is staggering. its greatly under-utilized. and currently where the high value fur is.

your fooling yourself(and missing out) if you think. "i'm just trapping rats,beaver and snaring/trapping coyotes."

i have a rmfa and resident trap. would like to thank gary goderson for opening my eyes up to this. its been great!!


also, every body that has already got there licensee. (via challenging)will still benefit hugely, from taking the course. take tork up on his offer!! you won't regret it.

[South west trappin RG]

I challenged the test about sixteen years ago I junior partnered and resident trapped for Seven years. I heard they were having a cource in around calgary an I signed up, the one thing I thought after taking the cource is I wish I had taken it from the start. My catch would have gone up I would have made more money at the auction from tips on fur handeling and would have a lot different mind set. The cource is for everyone. My wife took the cource after being very involved the last fifteen with my resident trapping and trapping on two different registered lines, she said it was the most interesting cource she has ever taken and now she gets allot of the stuff I do and sometimes she tells me how I should do things. I have a good friend who has trapped for forty pluse years resident and registered line. He has huge catches an treats it like a business he took the cource the same time as my wife, I thought why would he do that. His comment after was it should be mandatory that every so many years a trapper has to retake the course. The course Isn't just how to catch animals it's allot more than that. I strongly agree with taking the cource. The last three years I have hosted the ATA cource in our shop, the south country trappers association pays the way for kids and knocks the price down for others. I don't bennifit in
any way other than knowing the new trappers have some form of training an I hope they injoy it the way I have. Happy trapping everyone

[Bushmonkey]

Originally Posted by South west trappin RG

I challenged the test about sixteen years ago I junior partnered and resident trapped for Seven years. I heard they were having a cource in around calgary an I signed up, the one thing I thought after taking the cource is I wish I had taken it from the start. My catch would have gone up I would have made more money at the auction from tips on fur handeling and would have a lot different mind set. The cource is for everyone. My wife took the cource after being very involved the last fifteen with my resident trapping and trapping on two different registered lines, she said it was the most interesting cource she has ever taken and now she gets allot of the stuff I do and sometimes she tells me how I should do things. I have a good friend who has trapped for forty pluse years resident and registered line. He has huge catches an treats it like a business he took the cource the same time as my wife, I thought why would he do that. His comment after was it should be mandatory that every so many years a trapper has to retake the course. The course Isn't just how to catch animals it's allot more than that. I strongly agree with taking the cource. The last three years I have hosted the ATA cource in our shop, the south country trappers association pays the way for kids and knocks the price down for others. I don't bennifit in
any way other than knowing the new trappers have some form of training an I hope they injoy it the way I have. Happy trapping everyone

I don't think anyone will discredit the value of the course as far as it helping you catch more.

For me I discredit the idea that I need to take the course to catch anything at all and the idea that I won't make humane catches without doing the course. This is simply not true if YOU take the time to talk to others, read and watch trapping video's. And of course, use some common sense

Like most guy's who challenged... I'd love to take the course, but I can not justifiy the time off work. Before anyone says "well you take time off work to hunt/fish/trap...." I don't.

[nube]

Part of the reason for me not taking it was
time to do it
Time driving far from home
cost
Do I think it is valuable? For sure I do and I would love to do it. Never felt i needed to though and I think I am catching critters pretty good. Gots lot to learn though and I bet a course would help me catch a bit more fur

[Tfng]

That's a good offer Tork. I hope some guys who meet the terms are smart enough to take advantage of it.

Braggadoe makes a good point about how profitable resident lines can be. It's quite convenient to trap near home. I'm at home now enjoying a Sunday morning with my wife and kids. This afternoon I will be checking snares and possibly make a few beaver sets. I'll be home before the kids are in bed and probably stop for coffee at a farmers place along the way. I can run out after work and check snares in a few hours. I think this increases the pace you can learn because you have more opportunities to make adjustments to your sets.

It also works well for taking my three year old daughter with me. If she gets cold she just sits in he truck while I check. It would not be this convenient on a registered line.

There is a downside and it's not a small one, arranging permissions and dodging acreages isn't easy. It gets easier as you build relationships though. The experience isn't quite the same standing in a coulee listening to an oil hauler jake down the hill. I figure a couple thousand coyotes will buy me a RFMA in the next decade or so. I don't see myself quitting my resident line if I do manage to scrape up the cash for a RFMA.

Long story short- Get out there and trap however you can!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So the question becomes is it the funds that are preventing people from being able to take the course ? Or is it just new trappers don't feel they should be forced into taking the course ?

Because I obviously feel strongly about new trappers taking the course I'd like to help out a few new trappers that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the course if funds are indeed the issue. The first three people that PM me that want to take the course but can't afford it I'll cover 100% of the course fees myself. You'll be responsible for getting yourself there and meals and such but the course itself will be covered. Only requirements are you are a new trapper, young or old, man or women that wouldn't be able to pay for the course.

I want to get myself out of this discussion but before I do I'd like to send cudos your way for making such an incredible offer.

To answer your questions, yes, the cost associated with having to take the Trappers course will definitely deter people from taking up trapping IMO. If you consider the cost of taking time off of work, travel expenses, etc, there is much more involved than just the cost of the course. That goes without mentioning family commitments, etc.

I have seen firsthand what more government interference and mandatory courses leads to. I was posted to and lived in Germany for 5 years where you can't fart without taking a course. In Europe you have to take a course for pretty much everything that you want to do. Hunting, fishing, boating, quading, etc all require courses before you can participate in those activities. The end result is that only people who have the disposable income (aka well off) can afford to do them. I feel sorry for the poor fella that just wants to find a way to make a few bucks to improve his family's quality of life by putting up a few snares in his back 40, or the kid who's Father can't afford to send him on the course. These are the type of folks who I envision making the course mandatory will suffer the most from it. Make the course mandatory and FREE and I would throw my support behind it.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I want to get myself out of this discussion but before I do I'd like to send cudos your way for making such an incredible offer.

To answer your questions, yes, the cost associated with having to take the Trappers course will definitely deter people from taking up trapping IMO. If you consider the cost of taking time off of work, travel expenses, etc, there is much more involved than just the cost of the course. That goes without mentioning family commitments, etc.

I have seen firsthand what more government interference and mandatory courses leads to. I was posted to and lived in Germany for 5 years where you can't fart without taking a course. In Europe you have to take a course for pretty much everything that you want to do. Hunting, fishing, boating, quading, etc all require courses before you can participate in those activities. The end result is that only people who have the disposable income (aka well off) can afford to do them. I feel sorry for the poor fella that just wants to find a way to make a few bucks to improve his family's quality of life by putting up a few snares in his back 40, or the kid who's Father can't afford to send him on the course. These are the type of folks who I envision making the course mandatory will suffer the most from it. Make the course mandatory and FREE and I would throw my support behind it.

You make some very good points Dave. I believe there is no reason not to have free or at least more affordable courses available. Trapper Education could be delivered on an Instructor volunteer basis. This doesn't mean the course would be without standards. It could be run the same as the present ATA course only with volunteer instructors and assistants from each Local. Right now the Provincial Government gives the ATA somewhere in the neighborhood of $120,000.00 in the form of an MOU to deliver Trapper Education in Alberta. Then the student is also required to pay the course fee. Kind of double-dipping in some ways.

With the Alberta economy and Government cutbacks on the way the money from the Govt. to deliver Trapper Education has a good possibility of disappearing. Then what?? I believe this will be one of the hurdles the ATA will be facing in the near future.

I guess the privately run schools running now will still be an option.

[Felix]

What does/would the class cost? (Sorry I'm not in Alberta) I think we all have the acquaintance who started trapping and connected with a couple animals year one, a couple more year two... I believe that the costs of the course would soon be realized in the immediate increase in catch rates and fur handling practices compared to those who blindly challenged the exam.
Governments shouldn't implement mandatory courses on a whim. I would hope a course becoming mandatory in Alberta would be accompanied with some sort of subsidization option for those in extenuating circumstances not able to accommodate the additional upfront startup cost.

[Long_Range]

Well first off - play nice or I'll take the sticks away lol !!

Second I didn't mean to open bad can of worms here - I'd like to say both sides of the posters here have their opinions and are entitled to them I've read thru the bickering and gathered info I need for the routes possible to become a trapper thank you to ALL ppl that posted . I might or might not venture into this I asked this cos Iam sick of the city and technologies that bring it down - I honestly believe everyone meant well and peeps Txts where's definitely taken out of context - one person who reads anothers txt will always take it in the mood of the reader for he who reads the txt has no tone of voice and body language to associate the mood of the person who has posted - so will take it in whatever way they feel . Y'all may or may not have real life history but flamming each other on inter web or I like to call it E thuggin just need to take the words of info and use that leave the emotion out

At any rate I'd take a course and not challenged nothing as I want education and to learn the proper way and ethics from a teacher to trap yup I'll make mistakes it's inevitable I am human but to challenge and totally wing it and think Iam right cos I took a test and passed not my cup of tea - as I've asked for learning and someone to educate me In reloading shells . I asked for info as I am curious if I can make enough money to survive in my off season of becoming a guide I don't want to utilize my trades anymore due to ppl who can't pay up spending more time in small claims court then working these days and oil rigging ain't pYing my bills that's why I asked so I hope we all can try and get along this is the web and we all joined to share our passion th hat we all share as this community is shrinking.

L_R

[drake]

Originally Posted by Long_Range

Well first off - play nice or I'll take the sticks away lol !!

Second I didn't mean to open bad can of worms here - I'd like to say both sides of the posters here have their opinions and are entitled to them I've read thru the bickering and gathered info I need for the routes possible to become a trapper thank you to ALL ppl that posted . I might or might not venture into this I asked this cos Iam sick of the city and technologies that bring it down - I honestly believe everyone meant well and peeps Txts where's definitely taken out of context - one person who reads anothers txt will always take it in the mood of the reader for he who reads the txt has no tone of voice and body language to associate the mood of the person who has posted - so will take it in whatever way they feel . Y'all may or may not have real life history but flamming each other on inter web or I like to call it E thuggin just need to take the words of info and use that leave the emotion out

At any rate I'd take a course and not challenged nothing as I want education and to learn the proper way and ethics from a teacher to trap yup I'll make mistakes it's inevitable I am human but to challenge and totally wing it and think Iam right cos I took a test and passed not my cup of tea - as I've asked for learning and someone to educate me In reloading shells . I asked for info as I am curious if I can make enough money to survive in my off season of becoming a guide I don't want to utilize my trades anymore due to ppl who can't pay up spending more time in small claims court then working these days and oil rigging ain't pYing my bills that's why I asked so I hope we all can try and get along this is the web and we all joined to share our passion th hat we all share as this community is shrinking.

L_R

Take all the courses you want; but if you cant pay your bills with rig money, you wont pay your bills with fur money....lol. Good luck bud.

[drake]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I would think what motivated Gordy was some sort of at least minimal training for new trappers. Residents, would be line holders and junior partners included.
As far as not attracting new trappers I would have to disagree. Would you have not taken up this business/hobby if you had to take a mandatory course before getting started HD ? Would you pass on all the enjoyment it has brought you for the sake of $500 or so ? (sometimes more / sometimes less)
So the question becomes is it the funds that are preventing people from being able to take the course ? Or is it just new trappers don't feel they should be forced into taking the course ?

Because I obviously feel strongly about new trappers taking the course I'd like to help out a few new trappers that otherwise wouldn't be able to take the course if funds are indeed the issue. The first three people that PM me that want to take the course but can't afford it I'll cover 100% of the course fees myself. You'll be responsible for getting yourself there and meals and such but the course itself will be covered. Only requirements are you are a new trapper, young or old, man or women that wouldn't be able to pay for the course.

That is a most generous offer Tork...good on yah!

[bill9044]

My fur check = my fun money. Last year I was able to purchase a 2500$ gun scope and gear included plus paint. I sent in 33 yotes. My average was close to last Junes nafa avg. Paying custom skinner $500. Purchasing traps and snares $500. Not including fuel and bullets. That was with high yotes prices. Like oil fur has its ups and downs in the market. So to make an honest living off of trapping is possible but you need volume lots of volume.
Oil was 80$/bbl now 40-50$/bbl drop of 50% that is the profit portion of most companies.
Rats were 9$/rat now 4$/rat drop 45%
Yotes last auction 100$/yote. Next auction?
You're not gonna get rich off fur but it is possible to make a living.
Great idea we should start drilling for yotes. That would save the economy and the government can put royalties on the fur. And then waste that royalty money too.

[drake]

I am an independent learner. I would rather search out my own answers, on my own time than be forced to take a course. The Alberta Trapping Manual is available to the public as are the trapping regulations, YouTube has a lot of great tutorials from guys like Abe Dreidger and Ryan5911, Marty S has videos available for purchase, AO and TrapperMan can help nubes connect with seasoned vets, and there are also guys like Gary Godberson offering custom 1 on 1 training. I don’t “need” a generic course to become proficient. The course is probably the right training vehicle for many…but not for me. Someday I will take the course, and I will learn a lot…but it will be by choice. I am happy that I challenged the exam when I did….I am also proud of my trapping success this season.