Eagle dies from lead poisoning - Page 2

Justin.C · #31 11-08-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Read the condor link above...pretty proof positive there.

I am asking as I dont feel like reading a big articale... Thanks though...

#32 11-08-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I am asking as I dont feel like reading a big articale... Thanks though...

LOL....enough said.

Justin.C · #33 11-08-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL....enough said.

come on TJ... Just rassin you a bit. Have a little fun.

Ok I read your artical... So what makes the lead different??? As it just stated it was.

Canuk · #34 11-08-2011, 11:28 AM

Actually the courts did not consider it circomstantial evidence. It was conclusive and resulted in a lead shot ban for migratory birds... in the US and in Canada.

We fought that war and lost.

ishootbambi · #35 11-08-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuk

Actually the courts did not consider it circomstantial evidence. It was conclusive and resulted in a lead shot ban for migratory birds... in the US and in Canada.

We fought that war and lost.

holy crap man....read closer. i think everyone agrees that lead shot has been well proven as a problem.....a problem with secondary issues as well. we are talking about lead BULLETS here. keep up.

#36 11-08-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin.C

come on TJ... Just rassin you a bit. Have a little fun.

Ok I read your artical... So what makes the lead different??? As it just stated it was.

Did you read the part about the isotopes Justin? They are more than a baseball team

Wasn't my article BTW.

Justin.C · #37 11-08-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Did you read the part about the isotopes Justin? They are more than a baseball team

Wasn't my article BTW.

LOL.... Yes I did... But I still believe there are more ways that lead can be exsposed other than shot that may be the same as. I know it aint your artical.....I did not see it in AO magazine or the regs...

PBHunter · #38 11-08-2011, 11:38 AM

[QUOTE=ishootbambi;1151564][QUOTE=PBHunter;1151554]

like i said, its just like barbless hooks. they have been shown to have no difference in fish mortality. handling times are reduced so it seems likely that it should, but there is no evidence.

all these links are the same deal. in court it would be called circumstantial evidence. there is no direct proof. the one link even says just that....secondary poisoning. what im reading is that eagles are eating birds with dissolved lead in them and dying from it. i believe that no problem. the swans are eating lead shot from the lake and dying. the eagles eat the swans and are dying.

No direct proof ... swan eats lead shot - lead is swans stomach and in swans liver / kidney etc.... bigger meaner bird eats swan ... said bigger meaner bird then dies from lead poisoning ... study shows the lead causing the bird's death is from ammunition .. same isotrope .. again not sure i'm following this .. its kinda like your DNA is on the murder victim and the murder weapon , but that doesn't prove you are the murderer .. not sure maybe i"m off on this

"still no correlation to bullets in big game though."

I edited my above post, think I get what your saying ... and I would agree with lead bullets not being a major concern verses lead shot .. unfortunate if a single eagle ate a lead bullet and died ... bad luck on the part of said eagle, concern for the survival of all eagles, not really

#39 11-08-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin.C

LOL.... Yes I did... But I still believe there are more ways that lead can be exsposed other than shot that may be the same as. ...

I'm not sure you really understand what fingerprinting the source of the lead means but hey, let's just agree to disagree on this one........

Justin.C · #40 11-08-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

holy crap man....read closer. i think everyone agrees that lead shot has been well proven as a problem.....a problem with secondary issues as well. we are talking about lead BULLETS here. keep up.

LOL.... No unleaded bullets in my house...

PBHunter · #41 11-08-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin.C

LOL.... Yes I did... But I still believe there are more ways that lead can be exsposed other than shot. I know it aint your artical.....I did not see it in AO magazine or the regs...

The article states there are 2 sources of lead - background environmental and ammunition ... the most significant source was the lead from ammuntion.

Also that is just an article summerizing the actual scientific paper, so alot of details, like what you are asking regarding the "isotopes" are left out. They would be expalined in detail in the actuall paper however .. an I'm not a chemist/physicist / geologist by trade so I can't give a good explaination on the "isotrope " thing .. I have biology background, but i kinda iken the isotrope thing to DNA in biology, again I could be wrong ...

Justin.C · #42 11-08-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not sure you really understand what fingerprinting the source of the lead means but hey, let's just agree to disagree on this one........

I dont understand how there are different..... Even after I read it. I just keep saying the same thing... So please explain so I understand. I am not trying to argue anything with you. So what makes them different enough from all other lead compoitions to make it proven it is from a lead pellet or bullet?????

Justin.C · #43 11-08-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBHunter

The article states there are 2 sources of lead - background environmental and ammunition ... the most significant source was the lead from ammuntion.

Also that is just an article summerizing the actual scientific paper, so alot of details, like what you are asking regarding the "isotopes" are left out. They would be expalined in detail in the actuall paper however .. an I'm not a chemist/physicist / geologist by trade so I can't give a good explaination on the "isotrope " thing .. I have biology background, but i kinda iken the isotrope thing to DNA in biology, again I could be wrong ...

Thanks for the help... I understand the different types to make its so called dna...

#44 11-08-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin.C

I dont understand how there are different..... Even after I read it. I just keep saying the same thing... So please explain so I understand. I am not trying to argue anything with you. So what makes them different enough from all other lead compoitions to make it proven it is from a lead pellet or bullet?????

read PB's post above.....he explains it well. The isotopes can identify the source of the lead....just as DNA can identify the source of biological sources. Each lead sample leaves a unique fingerprint that allows its source to be positively identified.

ishootbambi · #45 11-08-2011, 11:48 AM

[QUOTE=PBHunter;1151593][QUOTE=ishootbambi;1151564]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBHunter

I edited my above post, think I get what your saying ... and I would agree with lead bullets not being a major concern verses lead shot .. unfortunate if a single eagle ate a lead bullet and died ... bad luck on the part of said eagle, concern for the survival of all eagles, not really

there ya go. sometimes communication on the internet gets muffled, but i see you get what im saying here.

i reckon we will be dealing with fallout from lead shot for many years to come yet. im not fully convinced that bullets are the same thing at all....but i am open to being proven wrong. it may well be that they are a bigger concern than what i am thinking today, but it just seems quite unlikely.

emrich-55 · #46 11-08-2011, 11:48 AM

Sheephunter
So your saying that you beleive that the bird in the article died from lead poising from the dead dear it was eating (not the car that hit it), becuase that dear was killed buy a lead bullit. That this bird started having Convulsions only moments after having its first bite of that dear?
I dont disagree with the fact that a bird can die from lead poisoning, but this article is basicly saying that the cause of death for that eagle was the fault of a hunter, there giving hunters a bad name. Which is the reason i called this article a joke and posted it. Not to get in an agument over if a bird can die from lead poising or not.

whitetail Junkie · #47 11-08-2011, 11:50 AM

ishootbambi · #48 11-08-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

lol....i have a beauty that is waiting in the wings. any guesses who will get it?

#49 11-08-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emrich-55

Sheephunter
So your saying that you beleive that the bird in the article died from lead poising from the dead dear it was eating (not the car that hit it), becuase that dear was killed buy a lead bullit. That this bird started having Convulsions only moments after having its first bite of that dear?
I dont disagree with the fact that a bird can die from lead poisoning, but this article is basicly saying that the cause of death for that eagle was the fault of a hunter, there giving hunters a bad name. Which is the reason i called this article a joke and posted it. Not to get in an agument over if a bird can die from lead poising or not.

No the bird clearly died from being hit by a car but lead poinsioning could have been a contributing factor. Then again maybe in this case it wasn't. The point I was making is that raptors have died from lead poisioning from ingesting bullet fragments from hunter killed game so it was not out of the question in this case.

#50 11-08-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

LOL...classic. You need to get Rob to add that one to the list.

whitetail Junkie · #51 11-08-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

lol....i have a beauty that is waiting in the wings. any guesses who will get it?

I dont know what your talking about???

Canuk · #52 11-08-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emrich-55

Sheephunter
So your saying that you beleive that the bird in the article died from lead poising from the dead dear it was eating (not the car that hit it), becuase that deer was killed buy a lead bullit. That this bird started having Convulsions only moments after having its first bite of that dear?
I dont disagree with the fact that a bird can die from lead poisoning, but this article is basicly saying that the cause of death for that eagle was the fault of a hunter, there giving hunters a bad name. Which is the reason i called this article a joke and posted it. Not to get in an agument over if a bird can die from lead poising or not.

I'm not speaking for TJ but I didn't get that from his posts.. nor am I "convinced" that eagle died from lead injested from that dear. I do know it's very possible and not uncommon. The Rehab facility never cited on common symptom of lead poisoning in birds... and "convulsions" aren't one.

I kind of agree with you emrich

walking buffalo · #53 11-08-2011, 11:53 AM

Do gophers ever die from lead poisoning?

pottymouth · #54 11-08-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

LoL

#55 11-08-2011, 11:55 AM

[QUOTE=ishootbambi;1151612][QUOTE=PBHunter;1151593]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

there ya go. sometimes communication on the internet gets muffled, but i see you get what im saying here.

i reckon we will be dealing with fallout from lead shot for many years to come yet. im not fully convinced that bullets are the same thing at all....but i am open to being proven wrong. it may well be that they are a bigger concern than what i am thinking today, but it just seems quite unlikely.

Bambi you are talking like a politician. No one on this thread said that hunter bullets were causing an epidemic of lead poisioning, just that indeed the phenomenon did exist. I agree that it's not a huge cause of raptor mortaility either but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Are you now agreeing that this mortality does happen? Yes or no will do

pottymouth · #56 11-08-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

in fact, i would bet good money that i could swallow a bullet whole

Ill take that bet, just to hear about how you put a bullet in your mouth.

aulrich · #57 11-08-2011, 12:00 PM

My thought were how can they tell how much of the lead in thier system came from any of the various isotopes. It stands to reason a carion eater would pick up some lead from a gut pile 40% of a cup and core is liklely in the lungs. But that said if it picks up the smallest flake non-toxic levels that isotope will still show up.

Ironically it would take some real animal testing to properly figure out.

Mind you I have never heard of \ a crow raven or magpie with lead poisoning even when they were testing the "found deads" for westnile. and gopher shooting should produced tons of them.

It wil be like lead shot, some areas are way more problematic and most with no issue, but folks love thier bans.

Justin.C · #58 11-08-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Ill take that bet, just to hear about how you put a bullet in your mouth.

Potty that is far from nice...

BGSH · #59 11-08-2011, 12:10 PM

How come they have lead free weights for fishing but not lead free bullets for hunting?? there has got to be lead free bullets that are very powerful if not more powerful then lead bullets anyways, come on technology get with it!!

#60 11-08-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by best guide shawn homeniuk

How come they have lead free weights for fishing but not lead free bullets for hunting?? there has got to be lead free bullets that are very powerful if not more powerful then lead bullets anyways, come on technology get with it!!

Lots of lead free bullets on the market shawn...they are becoming increasingly popular.