All this NDP talk

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

1. Better collaboration and dialogue with Ottawa and other provinces. I love Alberta, but I would say that I am Canadian first.

2. They attempt to balance resource development with environmental initiatives

3. Better protection of natural areas. I think this is important in what seems like an ever shrinking world. As an example, our family uses the new Castle provincial Park a lot.

4. I think that Rachel Notley is intelligent and competent. Several years ago I ran Melissa’s Road Race (Half marathon in Banff). At the start line, I there was a lady beside me and I thought, “Wow! She sure looks like Rachel Notley… Damn! It is Rachel Notley!” Anyway, she had hired a trainer and worked towards running a half marathon at almost 60 years old. She ran a great time too. I was impressed.

To be clear, there are lots of things that I don’t like as well. And a lot of things that I really just don’t know. Like, do certain provincial policies matter when an American president can, with the swipe of his pen, veto a pipeline on his first day in office?

To be honest, I hate how democracies are designed on dividing up the population. It’s the best political system that we’ve made so far, but it’s still a crap system. Perhaps AI will fix that for us in a couple hundred years! Lol! I guess I’m just trying to pick the perceived lesser of two evils.

Fair enough I can’t say I am really in agreement with your points but I didn’t start this thread for a debate. I only wanted to understand the reason people are choosing their stance

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

In 2015 I was upset with the NDP win. 7.5 years later we’re all still here. The UCP haven’t done a whole hell of a lot during their tenure. Pandemic aside they’ve been a huge disservice and disappointment. DS is flogging a dead horse.

The federal NDP aren’t the mother of Alberta’s NDP. Imagine if the Alberta NDP decided to do a name change (just like the conservatives did to the UCP). Say the called themselves the Alberta first party. Same people same care about Alberta and Albertans view. Wound that make a difference for you.

47 of the past 52 years this province has seen conservative rule. Our we really any better off for it?

BW

It only took the NDP one term to break the electrical contracts that cost Alberta over $1.8B, and resulted in higher electricity rates.

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...-fiasco-mounts

And then there are the investors that they drove away.

https://boereport.com/2019/04/15/alb...under-the-ndp/

After protesting against the oil industry for 10, 20, 30, and even 40 years, Alberta’s NDP took the helm of the province in 2015 after a remarkable sum of events leading up to that fateful day. Since day one of their governorship, Alberta’s oil and gas industry has suffered deeply–it will likely go down as the worst 4 years in the sector’s history.

Capital fled and did not return

The day after the 2015 election, massive amounts of capital began fleeing the province. During a 2 day period when oil prices increased (May 5 & 6 2015), the TSX Energy index dropped over 4%. Small cap energy producers were hit hard, and over $20 billion was wiped from the Canadian energy markets on day one and two.

Reports from banks and analysts hit the streets, the consensus from the investment world was conclusive: the NDP’s election victory would have a negative impact on this market. Alberta became a jurisdiction looked upon unfavourably by portfolio and fund managers.

Over the next 4 years, investment fell year after year. Compared to 2015 when $75 billion was invested in Alberta, 2016, 17 and 18 saw only $60 billion in capital spending. If spending had held from 2015, Alberta would have had an additional $45 billion of capital in this province.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by no-regard

Actually they are. Provincial NDP parties are under the umbrella of the federal party, it's all in the charter (or whatever you would call it). My understanding is that the provincial must do as the federal dictates.

This is true and something people should acknowledge well making their choice

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by no-regard

I'm curious if there was something stopping you and your family from enjoying the Castle area prior to the NDP?

Good question. I guess there are a couple of things.

1. Awareness. The castle area just wasn’t on my radar prior to that.

2. We have a young family and really love the provincial Park system. You generally know what you’re getting (no surprises). It’s safe and predictable.

That’s about it really. It’s a beautiful area and I’m glad it’s protected. On the other hand, I don’t think the NDP was fair or considerate to a lot of other people that used the area prior. ATVs in particular. I think they should have been welcomed to the table and included in the park planning.

[no-regard]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

Good question. I guess there are a couple of things.

1. Awareness. The castle area just wasn’t on my radar prior to that.

2. We have a young family and really love the provincial Park system. You generally know what you’re getting (no surprises). It’s safe and predictable.

That’s about it really. It’s a beautiful area and I’m glad it’s protected. On the other hand, I don’t think the NDP was fair or considerate to a lot of other people that used the area prior. ATVs in particular. I think they should have been welcomed to the table and included in the park planning.

So I see that answer as a no, there was nothing stopping you from enjoying it. Now there is just less of it that is accessible and therefore less for you to enjoy....

[cody j]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just one question, where will the money come from to make those changes?

No worries, the government will pay for it

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by no-regard

So I see that answer as a no, there was nothing stopping you from enjoying it. Now there is just less of it that is accessible and therefore less for you to enjoy....

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say no. The last time I crown land camped, some dude high on something stumbled through our campsite with his shotgun. Nothing happened. He just kept stumbling off into the darkness. But now that I have kids, I’m not interested in the possibility (even if it is remote) of having to deal with crap like that. That’s why I like the park.

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And then there are the investors that they drove away.

https://boereport.com/2019/04/15/alb...under-the-ndp/

In all fairness, the price of oil collapsed starting in 2014 and though 2015. From over $100 down to a rock bottom 30ish in 2016 (I believe). That article sounds like a lot of local political spin on a what was really a global macro trend.

[hogie]

Jstubbs

Why do you feel that post secondary education should be subdisivised more?

I never could understand this, you pay do get an education so you make more money. If it costs $20000 per year, but you come out making $100000 a year after why should tax payers have to pay? Four year program is paid for quickly.

Post secondary is funded by the province already. Student loans are already at low interest, and talk of no interest rates. Education is affordable if wanted.

You want cheaper than maybe start with salaries paid to staff.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...KRFf6URU3S5W7W

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by cody j

No worries, the government will pay for it

Of course they will add or increase taxes, so we the taxpayers will cover the costs, even though some people are already choosing between rent, utilities or food.

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Fair enough I can’t say I am really in agreement with your points but I didn’t start this thread for a debate. I only wanted to understand the reason people are choosing their stance

Thanks. I appreciate that. It would probably be bad news if we all agreed on everything. (I hear that there are places that everyone agrees… N. Korea comes to mind)

I’ll elaborate on the Canadian first comment a bit more. The sovereignty-like rhetoric from Alberta conservatives today does concern me. The last two conservative premiers I voted for were Ed Stelmach and Allison Redford. The concept and language of autonomy/sovereignty was not part of the package back then. With DS, it absolutely is now. A vote for the UCP, as it is today, is not just a vote for conservatism, but a vote for conservatism wrapped in the language of sovereignty.

I was born in Quebec, but grew up out here. My parents were a bit too old to get wrapped up in the Renée Levesque sovereignty fever that engulfed Quebec back in the 1970s. My dad in particular, thought it was shortsighted and stupid.

Levesque was premier from 1976 to 1985. In 1977, The Bank of Montreal abandoned its native city and set up main office in Toronto. They weren’t the only. The city of Montreal remained Canada‘s largest city until 1980 or 81 when Toronto finally surpassed it, and never looked back. Perhaps a coincidence, but even their hockey teams suffered.

Although today Quebec does receive better political treatment than any other region in Canada, I don’t believe they are any richer for it. I believe they sabotaged themselves so much so that they will never fully recover. Canada, as a nation, is poorer for this misadventure too.

So the other day, when I could not access healthcare for my son, I was mad. Since then I’ve realized that healthcare is screwed up everywhere. So today I’m not mad. But when I look at what the UCP is offering, I can’t say it aligns much anymore. Neither does the NDP really. There are things they do better, and things they do worse. For what it’s worth, if Travis Toews (who is more middle of the road, and accomplished) had won, well that would be a different story.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

In 2015 I was upset with the NDP win. 7.5 years later we’re all still here. The UCP haven’t done a whole hell of a lot during their tenure. Pandemic aside they’ve been a huge disservice and disappointment. DS is flogging a dead horse.

The federal NDP aren’t the mother of Alberta’s NDP. Imagine if the Alberta NDP decided to do a name change (just like the conservatives did to the UCP). Say the called themselves the Alberta first party. Same people same care about Alberta and Albertans view. Wound that make a difference for you.

47 of the past 52 years this province has seen conservative rule. Our we really any better off for it?

BW

Unfortunately for your view, yes it's is in the overall assessment. The NDP created recession with their policies with little outside influence. Where the conservatives failed its been due to them trying to act socialist to appease a minority. That failed us with Stelmach, the Red Queen, etc. Notely isn't a leader and a visit requires substance and they've done little to improve that. They've got taking points without plans.

Right now we need to reduce social spending to recover economy and sustainably return to some of these social programming ideals. Someone has to step-up and be the "badguy" to accomplish that and Notley hasn't got what it takes, nor the ideals, to do that.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say no. The last time I crown land camped, some dude high on something stumbled through our campsite with his shotgun. Nothing happened. He just kept stumbling off into the darkness. But now that I have kids, I’m not interested in the possibility (even if it is remote) of having to deal with crap like that. That’s why I like the park.

That is a weird experience that you had crown land camping,I’ve gone crown land camping for hundreds of days and never had an experience like that. Conversely whenever I go in a provincial park (if by some miracle I can actually reserve some time) I deal with a lot more people issues (drunk, high, noisy til the wee hours etc…) it’s also becoming prohibitively expensive. It’s too bad you didn’t find out about castle before it became a park, it was better back then, it goes to show if one travels around there are a lot of beautiful areas to frequent in Alberta.

[BlackHeart]

Originally Posted by no-regard

Actually they are. Provincial NDP parties are under the umbrella of the federal party, it's all in the charter (or whatever you would call it). My understanding is that the provincial must do as the federal dictates.

Its actually worse than that!!

There is no differentiation between federal and provincial. They are all ONE PARTY....under the same management and structures and committees.

Hence Jagmeet can direct Rachel Notley to do something and if she objects, could be censured....or even removed from leadership.

Just like all communist designed and based political organizations....all directed by the one collective. Scary S that we even allow them to exist in a country based in the concept of democracy. Who would she be accountable to the most Jagmeet, one of committees OR the Albertan voters and residents. The anwer is the party structure first, then maybe us.

[Talking moose]

Ya! NDP for Alberta……
Under federal NDP directive.
You just know federal NDP has Bertas best interests at heart…….

[Dewey Cox]

It is truly baffling that someone would vote for an increase in their taxes.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

Good question. I guess there are a couple of things.

1. Awareness. The castle area just wasn’t on my radar prior to that.

2. We have a young family and really love the provincial Park system. You generally know what you’re getting (no surprises). It’s safe and predictable.

That’s about it really. It’s a beautiful area and I’m glad it’s protected. On the other hand, I don’t think the NDP was fair or considerate to a lot of other people that used the area prior. ATVs in particular. I think they should have been welcomed to the table and included in the park planning.

. Used to hunt on foot there lots before the NDP shut down ATV access to retrieve game in a timely manner during warmer weather. Now the UPC charges fees for Designated Winter Camping and will not plow out main roads to these areas unless Shell is servicing well sites. Hunting is one activity in Castle that government will eliminate for licensed hunters in the near future, especially if NDP get elected. Your access to Castle will be the same as looking through a display window case, you will look at this area from a distance with out physically being there to enjoy it. Bitter sweet.

[Fisherdan]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

. Used to hunt on foot there lots before the NDP shut down ATV access to retrieve game in a timely manner during warmer weather. Now the UPC charges fees for Designated Winter Camping and will not plow out main roads to these areas unless Shell is servicing well sites. Hunting is one activity in Castle that government will eliminate for licensed hunters in the near future, especially if NDP get elected. Your access to Castle will be the same as looking through a display window case, you will look at this area from a distance with out physically being there to enjoy it. Bitter sweet.

And that’s what really sucks. Neither party offers a solution that work.

Party 1: protect the area, but restrict the access and use to many groups that love the area. Label those people as wild rednecks.

Party 2: do the minimum upkeep (whatever industry requires) and don’t think twice about selling mineral rights at the drop of a hat. Label those who object as communists.

In my ideal world, the area would be protected while maintaining or enhancing the experience of all users. But that option is never presented to us.

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by Fisherdan

And that’s what really sucks. Neither party offers a solution that work.

Party 1: protect the area, but restrict the access and use to many groups that love the area. Label those people as wild rednecks.

Party 2: do the minimum upkeep (whatever industry requires) and don’t think twice about selling mineral rights at the drop of a hat. Label those who object as communists.

In my ideal world, the area would be protected while maintaining or enhancing the experience of all users. But that option is never presented to us.

So true, even here in SK. It’s brutal, lol. But you could add, sell off loads of public, accessible wildlife lands to the mineral rights guys.

[1Heavyhitr]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Its actually worse than that!!

There is no differentiation between federal and provincial. They are all ONE PARTY....under the same management and structures and committees.

Hence Jagmeet can direct Rachel Notley to do something and if she objects, could be censured....or even removed from leadership.

Just like all communist designed and based political organizations....all directed by the one collective. Scary S that we even allow them to exist in a country based in the concept of democracy. Who would she be accountable to the most Jagmeet, one of committees OR the Albertan voters and residents. The anwer is the party structure first, then maybe us.

Yup. There’s nothing Liberal about “Liberals” anymore. They’re left wing extremists. The NDP are no different. After the destruction they have caused, I can’t believe anybody would entertain voting for these crazy Marxists in Alberta again.

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

It is truly baffling that someone would vote for an increase in their taxes.

Democracy....where 51% of people can vote to send the other 49% to concentration camps.

[claykuch]

If your a NDP on this site, I question your motives. NDP are socialists that want to ban guns.............

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by claykuch

If your a NDP on this site, I question your motives. NDP are socialists that want to ban guns.............

Not all fishermen are hunters or gun owners and some hunters/gun owners actually vote NDP

I am none of the above but I know these people exist

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

I plan to vote NDP. Some things I like about what the Alberta NDP is proposing WITHOUT including the bazillion reasons why I won't be voting for a Smith-led UCP government.

I agree with all of your point but I think I can add a summary of sorts. “I didn’t leave the UCP, the UCP left me.”

Coal mines, failed pipeline projects and Twitter trolls are not how I want to see my tax money spent. Now we’ve got DS promising to reshape healthcare by bringing in discredited twits to rehash Covid lockdown policy? This is not a
plan for the future, it’s fan service for the margins. The UCP membership had a chance to elect a pragmatic leader that wouldn’t actively discourage centrist viewpoints but they chose the crazy radio lady. F ‘em then.

That’s not to say that I’m in love with the NDP platform either but if these are my choices then I guess it is what it is.

[barbless]

If you really think that any party is going to help you then you must have a Supertramp song stuck in your head. "DREAMER". Wish it weren't true but the reality of it is they are in it for themselves. Make a legacy and get that golden pension with our dollars. Why don't any elected officials guarantee a raise for seniors pension?

[bridger2010]

Originally Posted by barbless

If you really think that any party is going to help you then you must have a Supertramp song stuck in your head. "DREAMER". Wish it weren't true but the reality of it is they are in it for themselves. Make a legacy and get that golden pension with our dollars. Why don't any elected officials guarantee a raise for seniors pension?

100%

Muh dEmocrACy

As real as professional wrestling.

Just wait for that opposition party to "hold the government accountable" LOL!

Don't forget to send them donations at election time!

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by barbless

If you really think that any party is going to help you then you must have a Supertramp song stuck in your head. "DREAMER". Wish it weren't true but the reality of it is they are in it for themselves. Make a legacy and get that golden pension with our dollars. Why don't any elected officials guarantee a raise for seniors pension?

The Reform Party of Canada came pretty close to making some common sense changes. Even Wikipedia can't ignore their policies, calling them instead "populist" as though that were a bad thing. Wiki also managed to omit such tiny details like the fact that Reform MPs refused to take their pensions until they were forced to do so. Made the rest of 'em look bad, you see.

There are still altruistic and conscientious people out there trying to make changes.

[Rvsask]

Originally Posted by claykuch

If your a NDP on this site, I question your motives. NDP are socialists that want to ban guns.............

I love reading things like this, I really do. Lol
My grandpa grew up on a farm at Bentley, he got out off dodge and came railroading in Sask and left his brothers on the farm there. He was a very active wildlife federation guy ensuring lands got bought and protected for hunters and when he died there was a house full of guns that had to be dealt with. He was also a very strong NDP guy who liked to debate my other grandpa, a conservative farmer who did not pass hunting on to me like my other grandpa, and he owned 1 .22.

It’s absurd that you think everyone who hunts should think like you, lol , it really is.

I find that a lot of people that throw that socialist word around are benefactors off socialism, like farmers for example. (Disclaimer:my dad is one)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Rvsask

I love reading things like this, I really do. Lol
My grandpa grew up on a farm at Bentley, he got out off dodge and came railroading in Sask and left his brothers on the farm there. He was a very active wildlife federation guy ensuring lands got bought and protected for hunters and when he died there was a house full of guns that had to be dealt with. He was also a very strong NDP guy who liked to debate my other grandpa, a conservative farmer who did not pass hunting on to me like my other grandpa, and he owned 1 .22.

It’s absurd that you think everyone who hunts should think like you, lol , it really is.

I find that a lot of people that throw that socialist word around are benefactors off socialism, like farmers for example. (Disclaimer:my dad is one)

It doesn't matter that one NDP supporter hunts and owns firearms, the party supports firearms bans. The NDP has supported the liberal firearms legislation, and they will continue to do so.

[cody j]

If you are a hunter and you support the NDP you should probably buy a bow, you will need it in the future if your chosen party wins