Capture of Alberta’s feral horses to go ahead

[Sooner]

Reading through some of the comments left on global was funny and scary. Cull the horse, oh the horror, cull the people commenting for the cull, that's ok. Personally, i have hunted in 429, a healthy horse population there. Could use a thinning out Imo. Same as south east of Nordegg where we meet friends for quad camping weekends. Piles of horse crap everywhere and tons of horse trails.

[GregT]

This article does not distinguish between feral horses (which i read as lost, abandoned, forgotten, etc) and wild horses ( suffield mustang). does the county not clean up stray dogs and cats roaming neighborhoods? anybody who opposes reducing this horse population obviously has never hit a feral horse with a vehicle.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by creeky

Thanks for linking that.


<Originally Posted by martinnordegg View Post
On Saturday we were heading out West for an outing when we saw the foal Henderson refers to in his statement. Two of us went out to see if we could get the foal up. the snow was up to our waists and we tried for some time but the foal had no energy left and had been going downhill for some time.

In the meantime a few vehicles had stopped on the road, one being Henderson. All he did was take a few pictures and drive on. You bet this guy is really concerned about these horses...NOT!! He is concerned about FUNDING. We could do no more as we had no equipment to move the horse and we DID NOT HAVE ANY PERMIT TO "RESCUE" or CAPTURE the foal. After all the events of the shooting incidents in the past we decided this best be left alone as it would have been very possible for Henderson and WHOAS to put some kind of twist on our actions and intentions.

I understand subsequent to our efforts WHOAS dispatched some people, extracted the foal and took it to one of the paid WHOAS members facility. I guess ESRD could confirm but as indicated in the post above I don't think at the time the foal was captured by WHOAS they had a permit to do so.

Maybe they are just special.

Maybe it is time they got audited.>


Martinnordegg, looks like he went and mobilized some help, tho regardless your personal feelings on issues surrounding these horses his actions success and expenses in saving the little guy are to be commended are they not?

His actions are totally opposite of what he has been preaching and on top of that the people that captured the horse broke the law. HE did not participate in the capture rather distanced himself from it. Last I heard the people that participated in the capture were NOT notified by Henderson rather another passerby.

His (WHOAS) expenses do not come out of pocket rather from the large donation pool which includes coming from International sources, not to mention the $75,000.00 reward that was offered by WHOAS and never collected.

Commended???? No I don't think so!!

[krthegunslinger]

Originally Posted by recce43

horse steak is yummy i love it had it overseas and in mexico

Really? I have often wondered how it would be. Hmmmm.......might have to get me one of those permits. Haha.

My dad always said something about eating "cloven hooved" animals only according to the bible. Can anyone expand on this for me?

[molly]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Interesting the poll is the exact opposite on the global site compared to where our members stand.

This is a surprise?

I actually support management of these horses but was assuming they would be rounded up by horsemen that would turn them into trail ponies or whatever. There was a guy in Millarville who trapped a lot of them and made some of them into pretty good using horses. But to ship most of them off for meat? Maybe Bouvry Exports contributed a bunch of money to the last election campaign.

Anyway, I think Macleod is right.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by martinnordegg

His actions are totally opposite of what he has been preaching and on top of that the people that captured the horse broke the law. HE did not participate in the capture rather distanced himself from it. Last I heard the people that participated in the capture were NOT notified by Henderson rather another passerby.

His (WHOAS) expenses do not come out of pocket rather from the large donation pool which includes coming from International sources, not to mention the $75,000.00 reward that was offered by WHOAS and never collected.

Commended???? No I don't think so!!

<On Saturday we were heading out West for an outing when we saw the foal Henderson refers to in his statement. Two of us went out to see if we could get the foal up. the snow was up to our waists and we tried for some time but the foal had no energy left and had been going downhill for some time.>

Martinnordegg, i also commend you & the "try" in you guys attempting rescuing that little colt!
Given the circumstances i would probably have done the same, IMO it's the moral thing to do, he'll likely one day make one heck of a saddle horse :-)

So what is it that now-one down (check) 199 to go?

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by GregT

This article does not distinguish between feral horses (which i read as lost, abandoned, forgotten, etc) and wild horses ( suffield mustang). does the county not clean up stray dogs and cats roaming neighborhoods? anybody who opposes reducing this horse population obviously has never hit a feral horse with a vehicle.

Hit a moose or a horse the results the same don't blame the critter you were driving. I hit a deer , I don't blame the deer.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by krthegunslinger

Really? I have often wondered how it would be. Hmmmm.......might have to get me one of those permits. Haha.

My dad always said something about eating "cloven hooved" animals only according to the bible. Can anyone expand on this for me?

Many religious doctrines don't allow for consuming the flesh of an animal with cloven hooves if that animal does not chew it's cud. Horse does not chew cud but it also does not have cloven hooves, So dad was saying fine with the bible fine with me.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by creeky

<On Saturday we were heading out West for an outing when we saw the foal Henderson refers to in his statement. Two of us went out to see if we could get the foal up. the snow was up to our waists and we tried for some time but the foal had no energy left and had been going downhill for some time.>

Martinnordegg, i also commend you & the "try" in you guys attempting rescuing that little colt!
Given the circumstances i would probably have done the same, IMO it's the moral thing to do, he'll likely one day make one heck of a saddle horse :-)

So what is it that now-one down (check) 199 to go?

Yep we tried to get the little guy up and over to the hillside where there was less snow and he could possibly regain some strength and his Mom could get to him. He was so run down he couldn't even get his legs under him even when we broke the snow all around him.

Not sure if they will count the illegal capture as one or not.

[Cresten]

Feral is feral........take em all out! In Australia feral animals are open season! They are not native to canada and are competing directly with native animals to survive. And for the "Suffield Mustang", they are identical to a feral horse. They were turned out/released after the government expropriated the land from the people for a military base. As local ranchers retired and moved away from the area they couldn't take their horses with them. So, where do you think those horses went??

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by Cresten

They are not native to canada and are competing directly with native animals to survive.

Rather uninformed first post. Horses predate man on this continent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse

Horses were here in North America for millions of years, they originated here and spread to Asia and Africa via the land bridge, they spread to South America via Panama. Saying Horses are not native to Canada is like saying Bison or Elk are not native to Canada. All three species predate man on this continent, all three species have had reintroductions in this province courtesy of man who had some part to play in their plight.

[Steven Noel]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Rather uninformed first post. Horses predate man on this continent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse

Horses were here in North America for millions of years, they originated here and spread to Asia and Africa via the land bridge, they spread to South America via Panama. Saying Horses are not native to Canada is like saying Bison are not native to Canada.

One of the first sentences:

Indigenous modern horses died out in the New World at the end of the Pleistocene, about 12,000 years ago, and thus were absent until the Spanish brought domestic horses from Europe, beginning in 1493.

[uglyelk]

Originally Posted by Steven Noel

One of the first sentences:

Steve whats your point?

[Steven Noel]

While they did evolve here, over the past ~12000 years when they have been absent the last ice age ended and the climate changed substantially. Consequently, the ecosystem (particularly of North America) has developed and refined as the ice receded. Now, there is no longer a niche for the horses that once roamed the Americas. Where ever they edge one can only come at the expense of their competing ungulates.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Steven Noel

While they did evolve here, over the past ~12000 years when they have been absent the last ice age ended and the climate changed substantially. Consequently, the ecosystem (particularly of North America) has developed and refined as the ice receded. Now, there is no longer a niche for the horses that once roamed the Americas. Where ever they edge one can only come at the expense of their competing ungulates.

Some sources suggest as recent as 3000 yrs agp the horse roamed NA .

[Masterchief]

I spend alot of time west of Sundre and these horses are everywhere. They are mean and the amount of damage they do to the area is insane. I dont want them all gone but definitely would like to thin them out. With all the snow, the elk, deer and moose are having a hard enough time finding food, and with the horses everywhere, it makes it extremely difficult for them to forage in the deep snow. Thin the herd!

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Masterchief

I spend alot of time west of Sundre and these horses are everywhere. They are mean and the amount of damage they do to the area is insane. I dont want them all gone but definitely would like to thin them out. With all the snow, the elk, deer and moose are having a hard enough time finding food, and with the horses everywhere, it makes it extremely difficult for them to forage in the deep snow. Thin the herd!

Next time your out take a pic of that damage and post it up . Cause last time I was out that way the only place I seen elk feeding were the areas the horses cleared Snow .

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Some sources suggest as recent as 3000 yrs agp the horse roamed NA .

I've seen your "sources" of info before.

Care to share the source before I give this any credence?

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Next time your out take a pic of that damage and post it up . Cause last time I was out that way the only place I seen elk feeding were the areas the horses cleared Snow .

Thanks for confirming that Feral horses are competing with Elk for the same food source.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I've seen your "sources" of info before.

Care to share the source before I give this any credence?





Thanks for confirming that Feral horses are competing with Elk for the same food source.

Not at all elk imo would be starving with out the aid of the horses. Not going to waste my time with links ,canadian geographic is insufficent as is the accepted written history if central Alberta. Sorry . How bout show my somthing disproving palliser macdougal and hendey. For a change . not srd's industry funded and biased pov.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by krthegunslinger

Really? I have often wondered how it would be. Hmmmm.......might have to get me one of those permits. Haha.

My dad always said something about eating "cloven hooved" animals only according to the bible. Can anyone expand on this for me?

Had Horse meat in Europe. A little richer, sweeter taste than Beef. Overall it was okay. Elk/Moose taste better. Just Sayin!

[martinnordegg]

I went on the WHOAS website for a while and it certainly was an eyeopener. Of course there was a link to the Donation form front and center on the top of the Home page.

Unlike most Society webpages, there is no category for the structure of the society, who the Directors are, or really any other information on the Society.

It seems to be much like a general chat forum (kinda like handles on this forum) with participants using code names and or just their first name.

No financial information available. No disclosure on anything.

In the "blog" which comprises most of the information on the site their are slanders and inuendos of ESRD employees and the gentleman that will hold one of the caputure permits and some totally outrageous ideas and perceptions. Quite scary actually. Kind of like their own underground "secret squirrel" organization.

Now with the organization and some members being under investigation for illegal activities, I just wonder what the Canada Revenue Agency would think about their tax status?

Have a peek and see how a very well funded radical organization works, and right in our backyard.

[Cresten]

The "modern horse" which I was talking about and I think everyone else was too.
The first Spanish horse, AKA " modern horse" arrived in N America in the early 1500's. The true "native" horse to N America was a small fox like animal with four toes. The true native N American horse disappeared around 8000-10000 yrs ago along with the wooly mammoth. Hunting by early natives, climate change and disease helped contribute to their demise.
And yes your right on one thing......bison and elk are native to canada, but I don't think man had a damn thing to do with the demise off the true native horse in N America!
Like I said before......feral is feral, happy hunting!

[krthegunslinger]

Originally Posted by uglyelk

Many religious doctrines don't allow for consuming the flesh of an animal with cloven hooves if that animal does not chew it's cud. Horse does not chew cud but it also does not have cloven hooves, So dad was saying fine with the bible fine with me.

That's the exact saying. Thank you.

[DiabeticKripple]

people need to let facts not emotions dictate their thinking on this.

all the horse lovers are totally against this

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Not at all elk imo would be starving with out the aid of the horses.

Really?No feral horses here but we DO have tens of thousands of elk.
Wonder how they managed?Must be smarter elk here.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

Really?No feral horses here but we DO have tens of thousands of elk.
Wonder how they managed?Must be smarter elk here.

Well how about the elk in 316 are better off because the horses make it easier to gain acces to winter food hmmm could the horse actually help lolol.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Well how about the elk in 316 are better off because the horses make it easier to gain acces to winter food hmmm could the horse actually help lolol.

Tell that to a friend of mine, who's haystack the elk hitting right now.

Grizz

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Next time your out take a pic of that damage and post it up . Cause last time I was out that way the only place I seen elk feeding were the areas the horses cleared Snow .

Last time I was at the Yaha there was a herd of Ferel horses eating the grass off of a critical wintering slope for BigHorn sheep. The sheep were sitting in the cliffs staring down while their winter forage was being gobbled up by these so called "wild" horses. Pretty sure that was damaging to the survival of those sheep on the range. I hope they cull every last one of them.

[K44]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Last time I was at the Yaha there was a herd of Ferel horses eating the grass off of a critical wintering slope for BigHorn sheep. The sheep were sitting in the cliffs staring down while their winter forage was being gobbled up by these so called "wild" horses. Pretty sure that was damaging to the survival of those sheep on the range. I hope they cull every last one of them.

Are you sure they weren't the ranch horses??

[G.Barefooter]

If you have a moment it would be helpful for ESRD to hear from you regarding your support of the Feral Horse Capture process (if that is where you stand on the subject) They are being inundated right now with calls from those in opposition. Of course if you oppose it feel free to call in too. It is a free country last time I looked

Here is the contact info..

http://esrd.alberta.ca/lands-forests...al-horses/fera
l-horse-advisory-committee.aspx


Brad Webb is the current contact with ESRD. He can be reached at 780-427-3595. Brad is a really great guy who is just trying to find a solution that is reasonable in the circumstances.
>
> Normally the contacts are Rob Kesseler at (780) 427-3595
> Head, Rangeland Integration Section
> Policy Division
> Alberta Environment and Sustainable Resource Development

> Helen.newsham@gov.ab.ca
> Phone: 780-427-4764

The horse petters have there numbers anyway, so can't hurt to publish. I know we all work and are busy, but it wouold be nice to give a little balance to this debate.