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06-24-2015, 06:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 25,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairiewolf
I thought the same thing - both good looking guns. Like Okotokian said, I thought Colt was in receivership, so not sure how this impacts the order/contract.
Question for the military guys - do these get a scope as well? How are they chosen?
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Myself personally speaking would leave them as is due to their purpose of shots under 200 yards which is very capeable of achieving in its current configuration. Throw into the equation the handling, environment etc the majority stay as is however there would be a few for special application that would carry a scope.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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06-24-2015, 06:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 25,264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolete
They did. Ruger wouldn't release their data to Colt Canada to build them here.
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Don't blame them either on that decision.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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06-24-2015, 07:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 8,458
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I wonder what type/brand of ammunition they use for reliable results down to 40 below?
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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06-24-2015, 07:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 773
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Welcoming news, I like it.
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06-24-2015, 07:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Well, at least it's a Sako, not a Colt.
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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06-24-2015, 07:54 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
Never mind doesn't want- they aren't allowed! The C7/C8 family are prohibited weapons in Canada because they are assault rifles and have an automatic station on the selector lever. The Rangers are NOT members of the Canadian Forces. The rifles that they are being given are non-restricted for a reason- so they can take them home with them and wherever they go. Military weaponry are bound by a strict set of storage regulations by the CF. ALL weapons must be locked inside an alarmed, coded vault. Inside the vault the weapons are locked inside steel racks with abloy locks. The bolts have to be locked inside a separate locker behind another abloy lock. The keys for the racks are held either at the duty center or MP shack and those keys are inside another container locked with an abloy lock. Those regs defeat the purpose of having the Rangers with a rifle they can use whenever they want.
Second, 5.56mm is NOT a round that these guys want. The rifle is mainly used for hunting and defence from Polar Bears. The .308 is more than adequate for those purposes. 5.56mm- not so much
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It's just a gun.
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06-24-2015, 08:07 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hythe
Posts: 4,354
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I thought the c7 was made by Mattel.
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06-24-2015, 09:47 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st99
plastic bolt shroud, I guess they don't know the effect of -50 on plastic
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Plastics have gone long way, but bias about them here to stay it seams.
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06-24-2015, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Onoway
Posts: 289
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Nice rifle. Wonder if that is a Boyd's stock?
Oh yes,
Welcome to the 21st Century Canadian Rangers!
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06-24-2015, 09:52 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered user
It's just a gun.
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I agree it's just a gun but that doesn't change the fact that the military is not going to give 5000 assault rifles to civilians. Again, the rules regarding the storage, issuance and positive control over DND weaponry are there for a reason.
But more importantly, the C7 does not suit their needs, has way too many small parts when detail stripped, the cartridge is too small to fill their requirements and they don't want it anyway.
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06-24-2015, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lloydminster AB/SK
Posts: 1,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
If Colt Canada is to produce the barrel, bolt & receiver under licence are they a separate entity from Colt in the US which is undergoing receivership? It would be hard to get those made if the machinery is currently on the auction block.......
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Quote from CBC News
Famed U.S. gun maker Colt Defense said it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Sunday in Delaware.
The company has a Canadian factory in Kitchener, Ont., which employs 110 people and produces the C7 and C8 assault rifles used by the Canadian military. Colt said the bankruptcy filing will have no impact on employees in Canada and the United States, including at its Kitchener plant.
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2011 Hoyt Carbon Element AP Camo, 60# (RKT Cams)
HDX rest
Hoyt Carbon Pro Sight
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06-24-2015, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Too much fluff in that pelican , IMO, they could simply have gone with a quality drag bag and be done with it!
Cat
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Ya no kidding. I can't see any of them actually keeping it in that case. They'd need to issue them each a mule to carry it around.
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06-24-2015, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgitz
Ya no kidding. I can't see any of them actually keeping it in that case. They'd need to issue them each a mule to carry it around.
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They won't store it in that case but they will transport it, partuclarly on aircraft and the like. We use pelican cases for weapon transport all the time.
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06-24-2015, 10:55 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,158
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I had to google to see what these Canadian Rangers were all about. Apparently a part time Canadian Forces group that watches over the arctic.
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06-24-2015, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered user
I'll bet one of those will cost twice as much as a C7 but I guess the gubby doesn't want our first line of defence toting scary army guns.
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I've lived outside at -40 for days at a time in the Sub-Arctic and I've spent a few years carrying a C-7. Any rifle that is made mostly out of plastic is a horrible fit for a situation where it is -40. I'm glad the government is spending money on Sako rifles for rangers, in fact I'm surprised they didn't choose Norinco bolt action rifles instead.
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06-24-2015, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V_1
Plastics have gone long way, but bias about them here to stay it seams.
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I lived up north for six years and I've seen lots of plastic break in extreme cold. It is hard on equipment when it is in the cold for weeks at a time and it is hard for people to understand unless they have lived in it.
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06-24-2015, 11:55 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119
I wonder what type/brand of ammunition they use for reliable results down to 40 below?
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Probably keep the magazine in their parka chest pocket until they need it.
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06-24-2015, 12:02 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 746
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Reads like it should be a tough, accurate, trouble free rifle for them.
Hope it serves them well!
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06-24-2015, 12:12 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Edmonton (shudder)
Posts: 4,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandHeart
I lived up north for six years and I've seen lots of plastic break in extreme cold. It is hard on equipment when it is in the cold for weeks at a time and it is hard for people to understand unless they have lived in it.
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Just for the record, even steel breaks easily at 40 below and beyond.
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06-24-2015, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
The design is by Sako/Tikka, production rights are to Colt Canada.
So in essence the rifle is being made in Canada.
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Thought Colt was in bankruptcy ? I can foresee another one of those military boondoggles where the cost far exceeds what was originally quoted.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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06-24-2015, 12:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Some people are going on about the cold and the C7/C8!! Pure nonsense, I've been in the Infantry for 18 years now, multiple sov ops in the arctic and god knows how many winter exercises in Wainwright at -30/ -40 for weeks on end and I have never seen one of our rifles break, freeze up or malfunction in any way due to the cold. To claim that the C7/C8 doesn't work in the arctic is laughable at best. If that was the case why would the Canadian Forces have them? Why would the US army based in Alaska use the same weapons???
Someone said it's "mostly made of plastic", again nonsense! The handguards,pistol grip and collapsable buttstock are made of an advanced fibre reinforced plastic that is incredibly tough. It isn't the same material that was used when they were first introduced!
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06-24-2015, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 2,045
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Not sure why they need a "new rifle" designed and built. The are thousands of good rifles out there that would fit the bill for the task. What is the govt planning to spend building these? heard a rumour or 6K plus for one rifle, Govt cant be that stupid.............. well............nevermind.
Why not just order 5000 sako 85's with open sights? or M70's, CZ, Sauer, Weatherby, etc, etc?
If they want a semi auto, HK makes a really nice MR308, its an AR varient, so have it reclassified as a Non Restricted, simple Order in counsel lol, no?
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"Unthinking respect for Authority is the greatest enemy of truth"
Albert Einstein
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06-24-2015, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 141
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Yes they are getting a new gun but more importantly, when and where are they selling off the enfields?
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06-24-2015, 12:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: rollyview
Posts: 7,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikwhiskey
Not sure why they need a "new rifle" designed and built. The are thousands of good rifles out there that would fit the bill for the task. What is the govt planning to spend building these? heard a rumour or 6K plus for one rifle, Govt cant be that stupid.............. well............nevermind.
Why not just order 5000 sako 85's with open sights? or M70's, CZ, Sauer, Weatherby, etc, etc?
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well they were using the same enfields since ww1 so if these last half as long it's money well spent.
as far as cost goes i doubt $100 sights a $100 larger bolt knob a $100 trigger guard and a $150 stock turn a $1700 rifle into a $6000 rifle
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06-24-2015, 01:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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What do Rangers do, REALLY???? Have they ever been involved in any significant military or even Search and Rescue situation?
Funny the article talks about the rifle being required for protection against predators. No mention of military use. So seems to me the most likely predator would be polar bear. If so, I'd like something with a little more oomph than a .308.
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06-24-2015, 01:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish_e_o
as far as cost goes i doubt $100 sights a $100 larger bolt knob a $100 trigger guard and a $150 stock turn a $1700 rifle into a $6000 rifle
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Fish, we are talking about federal government military procurement. I think we will be lucky if it costs as little as $6,000 each. I'm sure they aren't buying rifles. They are buying "Advanced Combat/Predator Suppression Systems" with 20 year warranty and service programs and a digitally inventoried stock of parts.
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06-24-2015, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Thought Colt was in bankruptcy ? I can foresee another one of those military boondoggles where the cost far exceeds what was originally quoted.
Grizz
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I may be wrong but I believe it was Colt that was in bankruptcy while Colt Canada is almost held as a seperate entity that can be sold off.
Much like if Remington went for bankruptcy they could sell off Marlin to raise cash.
I may be playing the left right out field on this one though...
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Never underestimate the power of explosives...
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06-24-2015, 01:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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This forum is turning into the CBC what with all the uninformed comments and all. Tell ya what, a personal friend of mine is part the program for the procurement of these new rifles. I'll get a hold of him and get some details right from the horses mouth. Some of the comments about plastic sights, cost, caliber, bolt gun etc etc are really beyond dumb guys.
Oh, and they got along fine with the .303 caliber for decades so I'm sure the
.308 will do just fine and be more than adequate for their purposes.
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06-24-2015, 01:51 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedeerhunter
This forum is turning into the CBC what with all the uninformed comments and all. Tell ya what, a personal friend of mine is part the program for the procurement of these new rifles. I'll get a hold of him and get some details right from the horses mouth. Some of the comments about plastic sights, cost, caliber, bolt gun etc etc are really beyond dumb guys.
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You will have to excuse my pessimism regarding military procurement. Its just that I have a brother who has been waiting about 15 years for a new helicopter. He'll retire before he flies it. Its a totally incompetent branch of the DND. helicopters, supply ships, submarines, aircraft... total %#$@ up.
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06-24-2015, 01:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Morinville
Posts: 2,608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
You will have to excuse my pessimism regarding military procurement. Its just that I have a brother who has been waiting about 15 years for a new helicopter. He'll retire before he flies it. Its a totally incompetent branch of the DND. helicopters, supply ships, submarines, aircraft... total %#$@ up.
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That may be so in most areas but weaponry is one area where we don't mess around. Right now the only gap is a new service pistol but nobody carry's them overseas anyway, mainly just a camp gun for inside the wire.
Procurement is not controlled by DND, if it were Canada would be the best equipped military in the world. It is controlled by Public Works and Government Services Canada which takes advice from the Department who has taken the advice from the Army, Navy and Air Force and then proceeds to louse it up. Except for weapons, we haven't gone wrong on weapons yet!
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