Covid Second Wave... a comparison to the 1918 Spanish Flu

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

? I don’t understand ?

If you are in close contact with someone who had covid you need to isolate regardless if you have a negative test or not.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by KinAlberta

That said, it is far deadlier to vulnerable people than the flu. (i.e. a lot more people are apparently vulnerable to covd-19 than they are vulnerable to the flu.) In aggregate the lack of vaccinations and possibly any natural defensive means that the aggregate deaths associated with catching Covid-19 will be far higher until vaccinations are available.

Can you provide a link that backs this up? Aside from the obvious that we have a vaccine for one but not the other, comparing the effects of the common flu virus to that of covid 19, I haven’t read anything that says the covid virus is more deadly but I’d like to see it.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

How come you have to miss 10 days of work? Work requirement even if you get a negative test result?

I’ve heard that as a matter of caution if you think you’ve been expose or have some symptoms and get tested...depending when infected there is a chance the test won’t pick it up yet...symptoms getting worse and that could change.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I’ve heard that as a matter of caution if you think you’ve been expose or have some symptoms and get tested...depending when infected there is a chance the test won’t pick it up yet...symptoms getting worse and that could change.

That's part of the problem in my mind. Companies are requiring people to isolate yet you aren't showing any symptoms and have a negative test. Makes people scared to report anything to their bosses until it is too late.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

That's part of the problem in my mind. Companies are requiring people to isolate yet you aren't showing any symptoms and have a negative test. Makes people scared to report anything to their bosses until it is too late.

Sad but likely true.

Part of testing seems to be I have it stay home...I don’t have it can go to work.

Some places say it’s automatic 14 day isolation from work...union shops may pay...others don’t.

Not sure how easy it is for getting Trudeau’s free sick pay benefit.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

That's part of the problem in my mind. Companies are requiring people to isolate yet you aren't showing any symptoms and have a negative test. Makes people scared to report anything to their bosses until it is too late.

Two weeks for anyone who has a potential contact.

Now here is the list of symptoms, if you have one you have to get tested and self isolate for 10 days regardless of results

Most common symptoms:
fever
dry cough
tiredness
Less common symptoms:
aches and pains
sore throat
diarrhoea
conjunctivitis
headache
loss of taste or smell
a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes
Serious symptoms:
difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
chest pain or pressure
loss of speech or movement


Now consider the fact some people have been tested multiple times with negative test results. Keep in mind, almost every symptom can be caused by a number of different reasons.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

My buddy had his kid tested then had to get tested himself the past weekend. Both were just over 24 hour turnaround so not bad at all. Making them isolate for 10 days regardless of test results makes me question the efficacy of the testing to begin with.

Someone could be infected but if tested before the patient starts to shed virus they will show negative. Two consecutive tests 4-5 days apart could cut the isolation period in half.
Believe it or not, they have officially started back cruise ships in some areas. The test passengers days before they left, but then retested while on ship. The test was negative pre boarding, but while on ship he/she started shedding and then came back positive.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...egan-1.5185531

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Can you provide a link that backs this up? Aside from the obvious that we have a vaccine for one but not the other, comparing the effects of the common flu virus to that of covid 19, I haven’t read anything that says the covid virus is more deadly but I’d like to see it.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...t-the-flu.html

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Two weeks for anyone who has a potential contact.

Now here is the list of symptoms, if you have one you have to get tested and self isolate for 10 days regardless of results

Most common symptoms:
fever
dry cough
tiredness
Less common symptoms:
aches and pains
sore throat
diarrhoea
conjunctivitis
headache
loss of taste or smell
a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes
Serious symptoms:
difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
chest pain or pressure
loss of speech or movement


Now consider the fact some people have been tested multiple times with negative test results. Keep in mind, almost every symptom can be caused by a number of different reasons.

Exactly. Heck who here doesn't have one of those symptoms at least weekly. If you have to stay away with just one symptom then people may never be working.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Someone could be infected but if tested before the patient starts to shed virus they will show negative. Two consecutive tests 4-5 days apart could cut the isolation period in half.
Believe it or not, they have officially started back cruise ships in some areas. The test passengers days before they left, but then retested while on ship. The test was negative pre boarding, but while on ship he/she started shedding and then came back positive.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...egan-1.5185531

That is wild. Didn't realize that. No wonder it is spreading as it makes the test almost useless.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Exactly. Heck who here doesn't have one of those symptoms at least weekly. If you have to stay away with just one symptom then people may never be working.

If you go onto the website as soon as you click on a symptom it tells you you must immediately self isolate and get tested. You say idiots that get tested and still don’t self isolate, but 92% of people that get tested turn up negative. You could have a bad sleep, wake up with a headache and have to get tested. The problem is, for most cases the symptoms are extremely mild so people don’t believe they could possibly have the virus. Now imagine being tested 5 times with the first 4 results being negative? It’s easy to say stay in self isolation but in some situations it seems ridiculous.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Scott h

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/artic...t-the-flu.html

It says this on the link you provided:

If infected, which has the higher rate of severe disease and mortality? How much higher?

COVID-19 has a higher severe disease and mortality rate than influenza in all age groups, except perhaps children under the age of 12.


It doesn’t give any information to back up this statement, can you show me where this information is gathered from? The reason I ask is because I had a flu that was way worse than covid even though I was in better physical shape when I caught the flu.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It says this on the link you provided:

If infected, which has the higher rate of severe disease and mortality? How much higher?

COVID-19 has a higher severe disease and mortality rate than influenza in all age groups, except perhaps children under the age of 12.


It doesn’t give any information to back up this statement, can you show me where this information is gathered from? The reason I ask is because I had a flu that was way worse than covid even though I was in better physical shape when I caught the flu.

I also had H1N1, and it was the worst flu I've ever had. This isn't a flu however, and it doesn't act like one. Many people will be lucky like you and your family and get virtually no symptoms.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...484-9/fulltext

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

If you go onto the website as soon as you click on a symptom it tells you you must immediately self isolate and get tested. You say idiots that get tested and still don’t self isolate, but 92% of people that get tested turn up negative. You could have a bad sleep, wake up with a headache and have to get tested. The problem is, for most cases the symptoms are extremely mild so people don’t believe they could possibly have the virus. Now imagine being tested 5 times with the first 4 results being negative? It’s easy to say stay in self isolation but in some situations it seems ridiculous.

It takes a day to get results right now. Idiots are the ones that go out into the community while they are still feeling symptoms yet waiting for the test results from the day prior.

Example: Feeling sick on Monday so go and get tested on Monday. Go to hockey on Tuesday evening while still feeling sick. Get positive test results Tuesday night. Now they isolate.

Second Example: Water truck driving feeling sick enough to warn our service rig crew. Service rig consultant says stay away. Meantime he is trucking water around the facility. All while being sick and waiting for covid results. Test comes in positive and now he isolates.

Both these examples are exactly what happened.

[Outbound]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

How come you have to miss 10 days of work? Work requirement even if you get a negative test result?

Yup. Overabundance of caution and I believe provinvial guidelines as Kurt505 posted above. If we get a confirmed case at work, the shop shuts down while everyone isolates and gets tested and that will likely be it for the company. 25 guys out of work.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

It takes a day to get results right now. Idiots are the ones that go out into the community while they are still feeling symptoms yet waiting for the test results from the day prior.

Example: Feeling sick on Monday so go and get tested on Monday. Go to hockey on Tuesday evening while still feeling sick. Get positive test results Tuesday night. Now they isolate.

Second Example: Water truck driving feeling sick enough to warn our service rig crew. Service rig consultant says stay away. Meantime he is trucking water around the facility. All while being sick and waiting for covid results. Test comes in positive and now he isolates.

Both these examples are exactly what happened.

What I was getting at is that a symptom can come and go within a day, not everyone stays sick after contracting it and feel 100%

Wait times vary. My test was 5 days, my youngest was 1 day and my wife and oldest was 3 days. The follow up phone call from AHS was 10 days.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What I was getting at is that a symptom can come and go within a day, not everyone stays sick after contracting it and feel 100%

Wait times vary. My test was 5 days, my youngest was 1 day and my wife and oldest was 3 days. The follow up phone call from AHS was 10 days.

Sure and I wouldn't classify those guys as idiots if they have zero to minimal symptoms. But ones that feel like crap there is no excuse for them.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Sure and I wouldn't classify those guys as idiots if they have zero to minimal symptoms. But ones that feel like crap there is no excuse for them.

I watched a true idiot in Canadian tire pull his mask off, start coughing first into his hands, then proceeded to wipe himself from chest to knees while still coughing then continued to walk down the isle with his mask hanging off of one ear. He was Asian descent and speaking in his native language. The reason I bring that up is because not all cultures have the same hygiene practices.

[hunterngather]

Originally Posted by kurt505

i watched a true idiot in canadian tire pull his mask off, start coughing first into his hands, then proceeded to wipe himself from chest to knees while still coughing then continued to walk down the isle with his mask hanging off of one ear. He was asian descent and speaking in his native language. The reason i bring that up is because not all cultures have the same hygiene practices.

🙄

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

First off, you can’t take half the numbers between 60-70 because the numbers rise exponentially, that’s blatantly obvious just from looking at the chart.

Secondly your answer is no, you have no links to back up your claims. I’m not saying everything you posted is fake news but I do believe you’ve embellished some of your information.

Lastly, I’ve actually had the virus so I think my first hand information on its effects are more accurate than what you’ve heard. To add to this, when talking with AHS, they said most cases are even milder than what I experienced. I can believe that because of the 7 other people I personally know who’ve had it.

There’s all kinds of information on the internet, lots of false information. I’m speaking from first hand experience.

Yeah because your experience is the only one that everyone is going to have... I assume that is why a large number of people even seniors etc are asymptomatic and others die... It all has to do with your bodies ability to fight the virus off, the strain you are infected with, viral load, did viral load increase rapidly or did you only have minor exposure and body created antibody in time before symptoms worsened.

Here is a news article with reference to a study about long term effects on low risk individuals. Find the study and read it to satiate your curiosity. I have already seen enough info to know it is true... In fact I have potentially been fighting something similar for two years now (closest explanation is chronic fatigue syndrome) and it sucks big time... It is common for viruses to initiate a state of "chronic fatigue", Epstein barr and many others, lyme disease (not viral) other as well. It can happen to anyone including young healthy guys like myself (I was 30 and in perfect health when issues started...).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globaln...9-effects/amp/

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Yeah because your experience is the only one that everyone is going to have... I assume that is why a large number of people even seniors etc are asymptomatic and others die...]

Which experience are you referring to? My personal experience? My wife’s? My youngest kids? My oldest kid? My oldest kids friend? My friend? My neighbors wife? Every single case has been a little different and I’ve stayed that. And the link you provided backs up what I said, long term effects are unknown. So again, there’s still nothing to back up what you say. Speculation doesn’t count.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I watched a true idiot in Canadian tire pull his mask off, start coughing first into his hands, then proceeded to wipe himself from chest to knees while still coughing then continued to walk down the isle with his mask hanging off of one ear. He was Asian descent and speaking in his native language. The reason I bring that up is because not all cultures have the same hygiene practices.

odd you say that...my daughter was a globe trotter...literally went all over the place...said china was disgusting especially in the populated areas people would just literally spit, spit all over the place....old woman just hocking up a luggy from deep in the ol'throat….

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

odd you say that...my daughter was a globe trotter...literally went all over the place...said china was disgusting especially in the populated areas people would just literally spit, spit all over the place....old woman just hocking up a luggy from deep in the ol'throat….

It’s not odd, it’s not racist, it’s just a totally different lifestyle.

Google Japanese toilet and then google Chinese toilet. You would never suspect they are neighbors.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It’s not odd, it’s not racist, it’s just a totally different lifestyle.

Google Japanese toilet and then google Chinese toilet. You would never suspect they are neighbors.

In France we found a number of public toilets that looked like this.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

In France we found a number of public toilets that looked like this.

A friend fro Guyana says they have troughs that run along the streets.


Different strokes

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A friend fro Guyana says they have troughs that run along the streets.


Different strokes

In either one...open sandals is a bad decision.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Which experience are you referring to? My personal experience? My wife’s? My youngest kids? My oldest kid? My oldest kids friend? My friend? My neighbors wife? Every single case has been a little different and I’ve stayed that. And the link you provided backs up what I said, long term effects are unknown. So again, there’s still nothing to back up what you say. Speculation doesn’t count.

Actually it states a UK study of 201 low risk individuals with an average age of 44, only 18 of which had to be hospitalized, are still battling symptoms 4 months later.

Long term effects aren't yet fully known only because we don't have a time travelling machine to go to the future and figure out the extent and commonness of these long term effects since this is still a relatively new disease...

The fact that long term effects do occur in people isn't speculation, they are well known and not debatable and being reported by every valid health resource...

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-.../art-20490351#

Be careful what conclusions you draw based on your limited bubble of experience. Especially when you are not just drawing conclusions but rather trying to persuade others that there is no risk in being infected... Your claims are as baseless and wrong as claiming all carrots are orange because you have only ever seen orange carrots...

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Actually it states a UK study of 201 low risk individuals with an average age of 44, only 18 of which had to be hospitalized, are still battling symptoms 4 months later.

Long term effects aren't yet fully known only because we don't have a time travelling machine to go to the future and figure out the extent and commonness of these long term effects since this is still a relatively new disease...

The fact that long term effects do occur in people isn't speculation, they are well known and not debatable and being reported by every valid health resource...

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-.../art-20490351#

Be careful what conclusions you draw based on your limited bubble of experience. Especially when you are not just drawing conclusions but rather trying to persuade others that there is no risk in being infected... Your claims are as baseless and wrong as claiming all carrots are orange because you have only ever seen orange carrots...

Lol, well I think you should read my posts before responding to them. From your response you clearly either haven’t read what I wrote or just don’t understand. I’ll let you go back and try again.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Do you have any links to back any of your statement up? I’d like to see it because the chart fishguy provided contradicts your icu numbers so I’m just wondering if you can provide links that back up the rest of your statement? It seems most of the medical facts in regards to covid are speculation being that the virus is roughly a year old.

This is what you said Kurt. Here is more proof.

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...statistics.htm

92 of 225 ICU (40.8 %) of cases have been under the age of 60. A further 60 of 225 (26.6 %) have been between 60 and 69 years of age. Only 35% of those 60-69 cases have to be under 65 for my claim to be true that half the ICU cases are under 65. Even if we forget about the 65 cutoff because there is no data available for it knowing that 40% of ICU cases are under 60 makes it pretty clear that younger people make up a significant portion of hospital/ICU cases.

If we look at hospitalizations instead of ICU 16% of the cases requiring hospitalization in AB have been under the age of 40. This jumps to 26% if you increase age to 50, 41.2% under age of 60.

The other claim you made was to provide links about long term effects which I did.

So what was it you were implying that I didn't understand? I have proven a significant portion of the population going to hospital/ICU are under the age of 65 (if not 50% it is close) and provided reputable resources stating that long term effects can occur.

Like usual your arguments lack substance, feel free to provide evidence or data stating that any of the above is false. It doesn't exist...

[KinAlberta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Can you provide a link that backs this up? Aside from the obvious that we have a vaccine for one but not the other, comparing the effects of the common flu virus to that of covid 19, I haven’t read anything that says the covid virus is more deadly but I’d like to see it.

A CDC study:


The debate is over: COVID-19 is deadlier than the flu – BGR
Excerpt:
“ The researchers found that COVID-19 patients were slightly older than influenza, but they had a lower prevalence of most underlying medical conditions.

The death rate was significantly higher in the COVID-19 group, where 21% of patients died compared to only 3.8% for the influenza group.”

https://bgr.com/2020/10/21/coronavir...flu-cdc-study/



Risk for In-Hospital Complications Associated with COVID-19 and Influenza — Veterans Health Administration, United States, October 1, 2018–May 31, 2020 | MMWR

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e3.htm



Europe:

How lethal is COVID-19 compared to cancer, flu and other death causes? - CGTN

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-09...lA4/index.html