Baiting In Alberta

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by NIKON

I disagree, not from my experience...... Most deer won't hit the baits til late Oct / Nov....May be different out east don't know.. Mineral is another animal, don't kid
yourself mineral doesn't just go away and i'm under the assumption mineral baiting in Alberta is live and well.....lol....... But for the most part deer don't hit a mineral lick daily , Oh and u mentioned molasses?... Unless you want bears at your deer bait.......lol

Wrong. The right bait at a proper location will yield deer year round and multiple times a day.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by st99

help the herd, prevent die off, prevent migration

That makes sense. I wondered if it might have something to do with maybe enhancing antler growth. And maybe that's part of it too.

Now do you think that in this province, there would be a lot of people doing this, or a few. And I mean, people who do so as part of a baiting hunting strategy.

The reason I ask is because I've had no experience with and read very little about baiting for hunting purposes. Baiting to enhance survival or just to have Deer around, and not part of hunting is a different matter as far as I'm concerned.

First of all, as others have noted, it already happens, and quite a lot I would imagine, and it's not what is being debated. Although I believe it would play a bigger role in spreading disease then hunters bait would.

I guess that's my greatest concern. If indeed hunters bait would help spread CWD, and from what I read, the jury is out one that, then other man made sources of food for the Deer should be a far greater concern I would imagine.

If there were a concerted effort to reduce or eliminate those other sources, then I'd find it a lot easier to buy into the theory that baiting could spread CWD.

I hear arguments about the possibility that baiting will spread this disease, and when it is pointed out that there is no conclusive evidence that this will be the result, then folks come up with lame arguments about weed seeds that are spread in thousands of other ways, already.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ooops...my bad...sorry...missed the "to" Need to read slower.

Should I expect your apology shortly?

LOL I'll draft one up right away.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by justinO

I just want to clarify two topics addressed in the last few posts.
1. I understand the concentration of a small area of soil at a bait pile will be greater compared to the grain field. Yes a bait pile that is hit consistently in the same spot will have the chance at concentrating prions from a infected animal. But what about the stationary grain piles, bail stacks, and bins that don't move are these not similar to bait piles?
I am not saying the fields of standing grain are going to concentrate the soil like a bait pile will I am talking about direct contact situations they create with many different animals from different home ranges. Here is my question with no factual evidence of how exactly the disease is spread would you believe direct contact animal to animal licking, intercourse etc etc or soil contamination would be a higher chance of transmission?

2. As for baiting rather call it feeding, I spend my own time and money to feed the animals after hunting season yes I put out cameras but would still feed them if there wasn't a buck or there wasn't a camera. I will try to do anything I can to help them survive the winters. Now after reading and researching I will do one thing different I will not concentrate my feed source for the issue of soil contamination. This means more work for me but that is fine.
Also some that are hinting anyone who feeds animals hunt over it well you are assuming and wrong. Some of use just care more than the vast majority of hunters who only take take take and never give back. I can sleep great at night looking at my deer on the wall even though very modest in size knowing they were all killed 100% legally in legal light and NOT over bait piles.

If you are going to reply to this post there are three questions please answer all or none thanks.

Justin

Good questions.

I've been trying to find the same answers but so far no luck.

In fact, some reports suggest that the real agent of transmission is not understood at this time.

I understand that quite a few people feed the Deer to enhance survival rates and or just because they like having Deer around, and not to hunt them either.
But I'm not sure that was a question or just a statement. If just a statement, so far as I know it's not illegal and I do know others that do the same thing. I have no issues with it, unless it turns out that baiting really does help to spread CWD.
If that were to be the case then I would support a ban on all feeding for any purpose and I would support an effort to minimize and clean up any grain spills or other man made food sources that might concentrate the animals.

I just don't think it makes sense to ban one and not the others.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That makes sense. I wondered if it might have something to do with maybe enhancing antler growth. And maybe that's part of it too.

Now do you think that in this province, there would be a lot of people doing this, or a few. And I mean, people who do so as part of a baiting hunting strategy.

The reason I ask is because I've had no experience with and read very little about baiting for hunting purposes. Baiting to enhance survival or just to have Deer around, and not part of hunting is a different matter as far as I'm concerned.

First of all, as others have noted, it already happens, and quite a lot I would imagine, and it's not what is being debated. Although I believe it would play a
bigger role in spreading disease then hunters bait would.

I guess that's my greatest concern. If indeed hunters bait would help spread CWD, and from what I read, the jury is out one that, then other man made sources of food for the Deer should be a far greater concern I would imagine.

If there were a concerted effort to reduce or eliminate those other sources, then I'd find it a lot easier to buy into the theory that baiting could spread CWD.

I hear arguments about the possibility that baiting will spread this disease, and when it is pointed out that there is no conclusive evidence that this will be
the result, then folks come up with lame arguments about weed seeds that are spread in thousands of other ways, already.

Keg, You still don't get it. This isn't about finding oats in a canola field . Or wheat in a small thicket of bush out in the farmland.

This isn't just about cwd. There are other numerous other diseases that can be spread more rapidly by congregation of animals, eating out of a one square foot area.

The only pro for baiting, is that it's easier for hunters to kill deer. That's not enough of a pro to risk our ungulates.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

The only pro for baiting, is that it's easier for hunters to kill deer. That's not enough of a pro to risk our ungulates.

I thought the other pro was for people to feed and take pictures of game animals?

LC

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

I thought the other pro was for people to feed and take pictures of game animals?

LC

Lol, yes your right lefty. Because mother nature doesn't know how to take care of her own. And heaven for bid, we take pictures the old fashioned way. On a game trail or out with camera in hand.

I noticed they moved the pool noodles beside the bait , at bass pro! Lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Lol, yes your right lefty. Because mother nature doesn't know how to take care of her own. And heaven for bid, we take pictures the old fashioned way. On a game trail or out with camera in hand.

I noticed they moved the pool noodles beside the bait , at bass pro! Lol

Exactly

LC

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Keg, You still don't get it. This isn't about finding oats in a canola field . Or wheat in a small thicket of bush out in the farmland.

This isn't just about cwd. There are other numerous other diseases that can be spread more rapidly by congregation of animals, eating out of a one square foot area.

The only pro for baiting, is that it's easier for hunters to kill deer. That's not enough of a pro to risk our ungulates.

No, you don't get it.

I never said I was for baiting. You got it now?

What I said was that I don't see how it would even come close to being as bad as what is already out there.

But you don't want to talk about that because you know I'm right.
Instead you try to suggest that grain spills and bail stacks have to be cleaned up and thus aren't a problem.

That is so far from right it is laughable. I could show you grain piles that have rotted down to less then half their original size because they have been there so long and I could show you bails that were pushed into the bush and left to rot down.

There is no law that requires such things be cleaned up. And there never was.

So now you think you have found a way to show everyone how smart you are. Well guess again. I never said anything about finding oats in a Canola field or any of the other things you are trying to suggest that I said.

Of course there are other diseases that can spread through close contact between animals, like Bovine tuberculosis and brucellosis.

So tell me oh wise one, if disease is such a concern, why is nothing being done about water holes, mineral licks, and man made attractants?

You think a small feed pile put out by a hunter will contribute so much to the spread of disease that it must remain illegal even though year round feeding is happening as we speak, and then there's the spilled feed, the hay and bails, the livestock mineral blocks, and so many other man made attractants that ARE OUT THERE right now.

I tell you what. From what I've encountered here, I'm beginning to think I should support legalizing baiting even though I will never do it myself.

If the best argument against it involves twisting peoples words, I'm thinking there is no legitimate argument against it.

Sorry sheephunter, you almost had me convinced, and maybe you are right, but I sure wouldn't know it from the others arguing against it.

[NIKON]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Wrong. The right bait at a proper location will yield deer year round and multiple times a day.

LOL...... Based on your years of experience baiting in Alberta?

Haha you guys are too funny

[shedcrazy]

Keg did you look up any labels yet? Or are you still blind to the topic? I will help you out a bit and say that their are cultivars from New Zealand in many if the mixes in Bio Logic mixes. Not sure of any farmers growing any of those cultivars and that they are being spread by any other methods beside food plot mixes. As well if you understand much in the topic of food plots/baiting you would also know they are used mainly in non-agriculture areas or at least not in a cultivated field. So the potential to introduce invasive Sps to a new area is high.
Do some research on the topic and see the concerns they are having in several states on some of these new Sps.
Saying arguments about invasive Sps are lame when discussing baiting/food plots shows the lack of research or knowledge on the topic. Again comparing past practices, non-vectors, and sloppiness to a new direct vector is alarming in the battle against invasive. Those attitudes are the reasons we are lossing the battle on invasives which affects our native wildlife. I have already saw toadflax in sheep range and ox-eye daisy in Wilmore.
I noticed several posts were deleted over night. I guess that is what a mod does when they put their foot in their mouth or disagree with someone. Kind of sad and disappointing.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Keg did you look up any labels yet? Or are you still blind to the topic? I will help you out a bit and say that their are cultivars from New Zealand in many if the mixes in Bio Logic mixes. Not sure of any farmers growing any of those cultivars and that they are being spread by any other methods beside food plot mixes. As well if you understand much in the topic of food plots/baiting you would also know they are used mainly in non-agriculture areas or at least not in a cultivated field. So the potential to introduce invasive Sps to a new area is high.
Do some research on the topic and see the concerns they are having in several states on some of these new Sps.
Saying arguments about invasive Sps are lame when discussing baiting/food plots shows the lack of research or knowledge on the topic. Again comparing past practices, non-vectors, and sloppiness to a new direct vector is alarming in the battle against invasive. Those attitudes are the reasons we are lossing the battle on invasives which affects our native wildlife. I have already saw toadflax in sheep range and ox-eye daisy in Wilmore.
I noticed several posts were deleted over night. I guess that is what a mod does when they put their foot in their mouth or disagree with someone. Kind of sad and disappointing.

Did you ever look up FOOD PLOT.

Big difference between a FOOD PLOT and a BAIT PILE.

The debate is about baiting, not about food plots.

No doubt you're not sure how many farmers are growing cultivars from New Zealand. That goes without saying.

Farmers grow cultivars from all over the world. Nothing new about that.

So you have already seen toadflax in sheep range and ox-eye daisy in Wilmore, I guess that proves my point doesn't it. Or are you suggesting that baiting is already common enough to spread such weeds.

Oh and by the way, I photographed domestic Poppies growing wild far up in the mountains in BC. Does that prove that baiting will spread invasive species or does it prove that invasive species will get there one way or the other.

Like I said, there are controls in place that are supposed to stop the spreading of invasive species. Maybe do some research on that and you will understand why your argument simply makes no sense.

Were you aware that unapproved species can only be brought into Canada if they are rendered infertile? I didn't think so.
So those species you're seeing on labels that you think don't grow here are supposed to be sterile if they are not approved.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

No, you don't get it.

I never said I was for baiting. You got it now?

What I said was that I don't see how it would even come close to being as bad as what is already out there.

But you don't want to talk about that because you know I'm right.
Instead you try to suggest that grain spills and bail stacks have to be cleaned up and thus aren't a problem.

That is so far from right it is laughable. I could show you grain piles that have rotted down to less then half their original size because they have been there so long and I could show you bails that were pushed into the bush and left to rot down.

There is no law that requires such things be cleaned up. And there never was.

So now you think you have found a way to show everyone how smart you are. Well guess again. I never said anything about finding oats in a Canola field or any of the other things you are trying to suggest that I said.

Of course there are other diseases that can spread through close contact between animals, like Bovine tuberculosis and brucellosis.

So tell me oh wise one, if disease is such a concern, why is nothing being done about water holes, mineral licks, and man made attractants?

You think a small feed pile put out by a hunter will contribute so much to the
spread of disease that it must remain illegal even though year round feeding is happening as we speak, and then there's the spilled feed, the hay and bails, the livestock mineral blocks, and so many other man made attractants that ARE OUT THERE right now.

I tell you what. From what I've encountered here, I'm beginning to think I should support legalizing baiting even though I will never do it myself.

If the best argument against it involves twisting peoples words, I'm thinking there is no legitimate argument against it.

Sorry sheephunter, you almost had me convinced, and maybe you are right,
but I sure wouldn't know it from the others arguing against it.

Lmao, you hilarious


Can't argue with guy who has the power to delete posts he don't like! Your starting to get a rep.

Oh, never said you were for baiting. But I'm not sure you wouldn't take
advantage of those big grain bins at your Bil place, that have a leaking problem.

I'm done debaiting with you.

[shedcrazy]

Wow. You sure don't like the details or get the point of most posts do you? I guess that is why you delete ones you don't like. Again you should look into the regs a bit more and bait labels. I don't think your naive enough to no realize the same products in some of their food plots are in their bait. Nor don't know how easy it is to buy invasive Sps.

I got a deal for you! I will buy a bag of Bio Logic bait and see what I grow and what is native, what is common and what is invasive. We can do some group ID..
Deal?
I know..I know.. There are other vectors but again one less is better IMO
My examples were trying to show how invasive Sps are spreading and we need to limit vectors. You didn't get it or refuse to be open minded.
Everytime you post on this topic I realize how much people don't understand the importance of controlling invasive Sps and the lack of education there is. By the way there is no such thing as "domestic poppies" lol. Too bad you didn't pick them.

So Keg..I will invite you to Wainwright this summer and I can show you how we manage invasive Sps on a large scale with lots of vectors. The main management tool is not giving up..that is for sure and doing a risk assessment on new vectors.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Wow. You sure don't like the details or get the point of most posts do you? I guess that is why you delete ones you don't like. Again you should look into the regs a bit more and bait labels. I don't think your naive enough to no realize the same products in some of their food plots are in their bait. Nor don't know how easy it is to buy invasive Sps.

I got a deal for you! I will buy a bag of Bio Logic bait and see what I grow and what is native, what is common and what is invasive. We can do some group ID..
Deal?
I know..I know.. There are other vectors but again one less is better IMO
My examples were trying to show how invasive Sps are spreading and we need to limit vectors. You didn't get it or refuse to be open minded.
Everytime you post on this topic I realize how much people don't understand the importance of controlling invasive Sps and the lack of education there is. By the way there is no such thing as "domestic poppies" lol. Too bad you didn't pick them.

So Keg..I will invite you to Wainwright this summer and I can show you how we manage invasive Sps on a large scale with lots of vectors. The main management tool is not giving up..that is for sure and doing a risk assessment on new vectors.

Nice of you to invite me to Wainwright.

But that is for another thread. This thread is about baiting.

I put out my thoughts, and you are free to disagree. Still, I note that you have spent more time suggesting that you know more then I do, then you have putting forth your ideas. Do you have any? Or do you just come here to tear others down?

We know you think that it will result in invasive species being introduced when your very words show that this is already happening, and I agree with that, so what else do you have against or for baiting?

See we could go round and round about who knows what, but that would prove nothing and change no ones mind. It would however derail this thread and that's not what you want is it?

So let's forget about the p******g match and get back to the debate shall we.

Oh and by the way, I don't like anything you posted, shall I delete all of them, or just the ones that are off topic or break the rules, as I am mandated to do?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Thanks Dale for taking the time and reporting your ph call with Trent and Margo .. they are just doing their jobs and trying to slow CWD till we can halt the expansion .

that has already been proven to be impossible. the whole prions existing in the environment after the host is gone makes that impossible.

in fact....you posted a link that has this in it.....

Selective culling of clinical suspects has been practiced throughout the endemic area of Colorado and Wyoming for a number of years, but this approach alone has proven insufficient to reduce prevalence in affected populations.


if it was in my area which it is Alberta then i would expect and demand that they sacrifice the few too save the many WMU's ..

so i back any and all methods of slowing and stopping the transmission of CWD to my Province and Canada )

again, culling has been tried and proven to be a catastrophinc failure to do anything to control the disease....but it sure has killed a lot of deer for nothing.

here is a question for you david.....given that the most recent year of cwd test results show a 1% infection rate of deer here in alberta....how can you justify the senseless slaughter of thousands and thousands of healthy animals? srd killed more than 4000 and buried themn in pits....over the last 7 years, hunters have killed who knows how many more through the supplemental tag BS. it doesnt even have to be 1000 per year to total 6000.....so on the very low end, that 10000 dead deer. at a 1% infection rate, that means that 9900 deer died to save 100 from cwd. is that REALLY justifiable arithmetic to you?

dont give me any BS about slowing the spread...your own links say that doesnt work and dont give me any garbage about most of alberta going to become infected....this map shows less than half of colorado to be infected when they have many times more ungulate density than alberta could ever dream of.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...bMap2010MD.pdf

answer the question....how do you justify 9900 plus dead deer to save 100?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i have already stated that what i am reporting is anecdotal and not scientific evidence regarding wild populations. hunter harvest of mature mule bucks in known cwd hotspots from colorado and wyoming is consistent with historical trends. interpret that as you may.

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'd need to see the data to be able to interpret it.......

you didnt quote enough of my post.....i already said it isnt data. data indicates scientific fact. what was reported is that state record keepers, P&Y and B&C entries have remained consistent. it isnt data, because those who dont enter trophies skew results as does the records keeping becoming more and more popular over the last few decades which may just mean a higher % of successful hunters are entering heads. what it does show is that there are plenty of mature bucks coming form colorado, including the hotspots for cwd.

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

you didnt quote enough of my post.....i already said it isnt data. data indicates scientific fact. what was reported is that state record keepers, P&Y and B&C entries have remained consistent. it isnt data, because those who dont enter trophies skew results as does the records keeping becoming more and more popular over the last few decades which may just mean a higher % of successful hunters are entering heads. what it does show is that there are plenty of mature bucks coming form colorado, including the hotspots for cwd.

Show me the data.......anecdotal or not.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

We must learn from the past......not be blind to it.

i couldnt agree more. culling has been proven ineffective as a management tool for cwd. we have a biologist in charge of things that cant seem to wrap her head around that fact though. if we as hunters care....we need to invoke change. to accept this level of incompetence is shameful. to believe the untruths....including those printed boldly on page 29 of our hunting regs when the truth can be found right here in this thread is inexcusable.

i know that trying to educate every alberta on this stuff is unrealistic....but if everyone reading this here can educate a friend and have them educate another...we would be on the way to ending this nonsense.

on a personal note....i did the only real thing i could do this year to make any difference. i claimed undersubscribed antlerless tags for wmu 236 for me and my hunting party. none of those tags were filled, they were only claimed in an effort to save a few deer form the slaughter of the uneducated. its a vrey easy gesture that anyone can do for next year if we cant get through to srd....and im not optimistic of that.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Show me the data.......anecdotal or not.

i told you it was posted before on this forum....i seldom have a lot of luck with the search function here. i should tell you google is your friend as you seem to have liked that answer in the past....but ill do a little legwork for you. im a good guy that way....

here is one....albeit form 1999

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WORLD+...ER.-a059819881

http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforum...hreadid=349842

from this one in 2008....a quote.....

During the last recording period.....Colorado led ALL western states with the amount of P&Y entries. That stat alone documents where the bucks are being killed NOW versus the 70's.

there are more....you know how to google stuff im sure....

[Speckle55]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

again, culling has been tried and proven to be a catastrophinc failure to do anything to control the disease....but it sure has killed a lot of deer for nothing.

here is a question for you david.....given that the most recent year of cwd test results show a 1% infection rate of deer here in alberta....how can you justify the senseless slaughter of thousands and thousands of healthy animals? srd killed more than 4000 and buried themn in pits....over the last 7 years, hunters have killed who knows how many more through the supplemental tag BS. it doesnt even have to be 1000 per year to total 6000.....so on the very low end, that 10000 dead deer. at a 1% infection rate, that means that 9900 deer died to save 100 from cwd. is that REALLY justifiable arithmetic to you?

dont give me any BS about slowing the spread...your own links say that doesnt work and dont give me any garbage about most of alberta going to become infected....this map shows less than half of colorado to be infected when they have many times more ungulate density than alberta could ever dream of.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...bMap2010MD.pdf

answer the question....how do you justify 9900 plus dead deer to save 100?

Dale.. its called hard choices if this was a CDC question which it is in part just not human .. then we should put a Quaratine on this area and allow no animals out of those WMU's.... that what they failed to do in COL and you can see how it has affected the other states in the area and the GMU's

if this was Europe and Mad Cow then they put proper protocall in place that stopped all tractors/farm equipment from one county moving to another and all tires /footware were treated and they did have some slip-ups but in most cases they contained it ..

we are not treating this as a health issue which is a mistake and not being serious as we should .. COl has spent how much on testing now the Hunters have to pay for the tests to be done on the animals themselfs

if you have a contageion that is spreading and may jump spieces the wise thing to do is slow or stop the spread

we didn,t have any CWD in Canada till we started game ranching now we have how many WMU's that have it and in some valleys or drainages/valleys there will be 10 to 20% or more in infection rates and it is very high if not allways fatal

What do we do to keep the Rats at the border / what are the countys that have wild pigs doing /what do we do in Cariboo country/ we even have change our fencing in goat country... do we try to keep Brook Trout numbers low in some streams in Alberta .. why is this any differn,t ?

most say keep the numbers low in infected areas /science backed

baiting or feeding increase the chance of animals passing this prion to others of the same groups

if the CDC said to stay indoors because we had a epidimic / or if someone was on pourpose spreading Aids there will allways be some that say don, t worry God will take care of us and not take any precautions

i would rather have a few WMU,s used as stopping the spread than all have it as some would do by sticking their heads in the sand

do you agree that it started in one GMU in COL .. so this not doing anything is it working anywhere?

Food for Thought

David

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Dale.. its called hard choices if this was a CDC question which it is in part just not human .. then we should put a Quaratine on this area and allow no animals out of those WMU's.... that what they failed to do in COL and you can see how it has affected the other states in the area and the GMU's

are you suggesting building a great wall of alberta? i have no idea how you quarantine wild animals?

if this was Europe and Mad Cow then they put proper protocall in place that stopped all tractors/farm equipment from one county moving to another and all tires /footware were treated and they did have some slip-ups but in most cases they contained it ..

we are not treating this as a health issue which is a mistake and not being serious as we should .. COl has spent how much on testing now the Hunters have to pay for the tests to be done on the animals themselfs

ive already shown in the links provided that many experts believe (and i do too) that although no known correlation between cwd and humans exists...it is a matter of time. but again, you are referring to domestic animals in europe. it doesnt apply straight across to wild animals. all the evidnce shows that once an area becomes onfected, there is no known way to be free of it. cull all you want, cwd is here to stay.


if you have a contageion that is spreading and may jump spieces the wise thing to do is slow or stop the spread

already proven impossible....period.


we didn,t have any CWD in Canada till we started game ranching now we have how many WMU's that have it and in some valleys or drainages/valleys there will be 10 to 20% or more in infection rates and it is very high if not allways fatal

agreed that game ranching is the cause. it never should have happened and all the warnigns were issued by experts at the time. the governments wouldnt losten and here we are. schitty thing is they arent listening now either on how to deal with it. again though you are way high in your estimates at 20%....for fack sakes read the links....around 13% is the highest unit of infection in colorado. that unit has a deer density several times higher than any in alberta. why do you insist on spewing verbal diarhea when the facts are so easily found in links YOU provided and claim to have read?


rats and brook trout are irrelevant here.

baiting or feeding increase the chance of animals passing this prion to others of the same groups

never disagreed.....

i would rather have a few WMU,s used as stopping the spread than all have it as some would do by sticking their heads in the sand

do you agree that it started in one GMU in COL .. so this not doing anything is it working anywhere?

again....culling has been proven ineffective. how many times does it need to be said? the links YOU provided show it.....

yes it started in 1 unit in colorado....and today there is at least one case in about half of the units in colorado. half in over 30 years. if anything was shown to have any effect, i would be on board.....but so far nothing has worked. we have killed thousands of deer for no reason. i asked you a direct question. i have answered yours....do me the same courtesy.

how can you justify conservatively 10000 deer to save 100?

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Show me the data.......anecdotal or not.

couple more....

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/...ate-mule-deer/


http://www.americanhunter.org/articl...-deer-hunting/

and a quote from the first....

The Rankings: Since we’re looking for up-to-date information, I searched the database for both typical and non-typical mule deer entries made since the year 2000. In order to qualify for the B&C “book” a typical mule deer must score 180 points or better and a non-typical must score 215 points or better.






State


Typical Record


Number of Typical Entries


Non-Typical Record


Number of Non-Typical Entries


Total B&C Entries




1. Colorado


207 6/8


220


306 3/8


55


275




2. Wyoming


206 6/8


66


285 4/8


14


80

darn charts never copy correctly....but again...colorado and wyoming number 1 and 2, going against the BS peddled by srd that clorado and wyoming deer herds are colllapsed by cwd, and that there are very few older age class bucks left.

[shedcrazy]

Bait bans in the US...from what I can find out online just about all US states that have Bovine TB or CWD have banned baiting for deer. Several states that had baiting before the diseases. There might be a few I am missing but I think it's pretty close to all.

After seeing that info I am pretty sure we won't be see baiting in AB mainly on that reason alone. This argument has many threads on many forums already in the US.

We already know it's an invasive Sps issue...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Bait bans in the US...from what I can find out online just about all US states that have Bovine TB or CWD have banned baiting for deer. Several states that had baiting before the diseases. There might be a few I am missing but I think it's pretty close to all.

After seeing that info I pretty sure we won't be see baiting in AB mainly on that reason alone. This argument has many threads on many forums already in the US.

We already know it's an invasive Sps issue...

Then when will the currently legal baiting for the purpose of photography end?

LC

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Then when will the currently legal baiting for the purpose of photography end?

LC

Hopefully ASAP!

[shedcrazy]

Good question...don't know. Best ask an ESRD lawyer.

If you want loop holes... In some states I read you can bait hogs and turkeys but not deer! Lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by shedcrazy

Good question...don't know. Best ask an ESRD lawyer.

If you want loop holes... In some states I read you can bait hogs and turkeys but not deer! Lol

Thats awesome....."Honestly officer, the corn mash is only for turkeys and hogs, I put up signs for the deer but they won't listen!"

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Things I find so convoluted around this topic.....

1. culls are proven ineffective, good at lowering numbers of a total population but never meet the demand objectives, but yet that was the first tactic employed?

2. baiting is already legal and is continued for so many things EXCEPT hunting

3. creating a food plot using a brandname that is brought in from out of country is not regulated, so who really knows what is in that seed?

4. creating a food plot by planting just about anything is not illegal but planting it then purposely hunting over it is.

5. The identified source of CWD is still allowed to continue in this province....game farms!

....I am sure I can think of more but these spring to mind....

LC

[Red Bullets]

I think both the B&C and P&Y hunting clubs should have trophies that were only taken in fair chase. Baited animals should be disqualified.