2013 Archery Mule deer going on Draw

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Do you know for fact this decision is based on 7 years of data?

LC

I know for fact it's based on data collected from 2003-2007 and again in 2010, so 6 years. The bulk was collected during the telephone years...you know the more accurate years

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KCL

If they do some I hope they do all in an area. Otherwise the WMU not on draw could get some serious pressure

EXACTLY!

This is what SRD did to moose!

For example: 348 from general to draw, everyone from 348....went to 507 (which is across a hwy), 507....to draw, everyone from there went to 337 & 338.....guess what it went to DRAW.

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I know for fact it's based on data collected from 2003-2007 and again in 2010, so 6 years. The bulk was collected during the ytelephone years...you know the more accurate years

That is a fact most here likely do/did not know.....if it is indeed a fact

LC

[25-06rem.model700]

Instead of making it a draw why not have it that you can not get a tag after harvesting a archery mule deer for one or two years. Allowing people to hunt just making them more picky knowing that it may be their last deer for a few years.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 25-06rem.model700

Instead of making it a draw why not have it that you can not get a tag after harvesting a archery mule deer for one or two years. Allowing people to hunt just making them more picky knowing that it may be their last deer for a few years.

Another good suggestion! They do similar with sheep right?

LC

[25-06rem.model700]

Sheep is one year off after a harvest, which im fine with, and would be fine with mule deer it would give more of a trophy hunter mentality to people. If you want meat kill a antler less if your gonna take a antlered deer make it a mature animal

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by 25-06rem.model700

Instead of making it a draw why not have it that you can not get a tag after harvesting a archery mule deer for one or two years. Allowing people to hunt just making them more picky knowing that it may be their last deer for a few years.

I mentioned that years back, and got laughed at, because that would be more of a trophy hunters dream, not srd's!

It would really work! The way I got it figured!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Dr Death

There was a meeting in Lethbridge a few weeks back. 3 southern SRD biologists, a few members of SABA (southern Alberta Bowhunters Assoc.) and a couple of others attended. It was actually organized by SRD. It was a small group and basically an open discussion for any issues that were brought up. Since there have been rumors of archery mule deer going to draw, that was what was mainly discussed. The bios acknowlegded SRD was proposing archery draws in zones exceeding the 15%. The power point charts highlighted many WMU's in the south indicating a 15%+ harvest by archers. One of the zones was WMU 212, an archery only zone. Interestingly WMU 404 was another. When questioned directly about that zone one of the bios said there were over 40 antlered mule deer harvested by archers last year and only 10 by rifle hunters! When asked where those number were derived from they admitted there were less than 10 hunters total who answered the survey for 404 and that indeed the harvest
estimates are very unreliable due to lack of response. The same is true for all zones, we really don't know what is being harvested.

The bios also acknowledged that according to their numbers the harvest goals in most of the southern zone(not sure about the SE) are not being achieved. Thus it was also questioned as to why they were considering further restrictions when the harvests are already below management goals. Basically, by the end of the meeting SRD acknowledged there are SERIOUS problems with the harvest stats, but it is the only thing they have to go on.

I think our biologists do a good job with what they have, but due to budget restraints they don't have much. There have been resolutions put forward to have mandatory completion of surveys by all hunters. This would help the bios tremendously. SABA has indicated they would be willing to put up some of
their grant money to help with mandatory surveys and that if the harvest of archers does in fact exceed 15% - draw for archers. But as it stands now the numbers mean nothing and as a bowhunter myself, I am totally opposed to any draw changes until the real numbers are available. Proper numbers and data would help our game managers with all kinds of issues. It is time hunter surveys become MANDATORY FOR ALL HUNTERS!

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Just kind of curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on the fact that this will be the last year of being able to buy a general Mule buck Tag in Alberta For Archery purposes?

I Know about 3 years ago myself and some buddies thought up this same idea,for a variety of reasons....I even posted\Made A thread on here about the exact same subject! I was laughed at..."Thanks for the Chuckle" I believe
Steve or someone said.

Eitherway... now i'm not sure if Putting Archery Mule buck on draw is the right move?I know for sure that Trophy quility will improve,however maybe to cut down on the ever increaseing mule buck archery harvest,the government should be cutting the outfitter and non resident canadian harvest???(just a thought) What do you guys think should be done?

Eitherway enjoy the General 2012 mulebuck season,because it's going to be
the last!

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Ya, I heard that 212 is going on draw in 2013 so rifle hunters get their share too.
Come on Potty, do you even read what you post. This is a WMU by WMU thing. They are comparing the harvest of rifle hunters vs bow hunters in specific WMUs, not province wide. As there are no rifle hunter of antlered mule deer in 212, it kind of stands to reason it won't be one of the WMUs affected and even if they did include those results it would only apply to 212 and not skew anything........

No ,I'm not that vain!

Do you read other people's posts, or just your own?

Save your smart azz remarks, kinda thought you were bigger than that!

WJ's post does say Alberta wide, and Dr.D's post says 212 pretty clearly, and he was at the meeting! Were you at that meeting?

Originally Posted by pottymouth

No ,I'm not that vain!

Do you read other people's posts, or just your own?

Save your smart azz remarks, kinda thought you were bigger than that!

WJ's post does say Alberta wide, and Dr.D's post says 212 pretty clearly, and he was at the meeting! Were you at that meeting?

Potty, I never said 212 wasn't discussed, I've seen the charts, what I said is that it did not skew the results....because there is no rifle hunting there. Sometimes it's important to look at things in context rather than just grabbing a hold of something without fully understanding it and going off on an implausible tangent.

If you read the rest of the sentence that you highlighted in Dr. D's thread, it says.....Some WUMs.....not all. Only those that exceed the 15% cap. As you said, he was at the meeting. That's what I've heard too.

[MOAhunter]

Originally Posted by 25-06rem.model700

Sheep is one year off after a harvest, which im fine with, and would be fine with mule deer it would give more of a trophy hunter mentality to people. If you want meat kill a antler less if your gonna take a antlered deer make it a mature animal

Excellent thought!

In addition why not simply leave rifle and archery seasons as they are, and make archery trophy mule deer a draw. And maybe address oufitter and landowner tags. The archery tag would still take fewer years to draw and we'd still rightfully have first crack over the rifle hunters. This would certainly increase trophy quality and make things more fair.

In the zones I've followed (south of Calgary) very closely for over two decades this would VERY well.

I'm not saying this would be the solution province wide, but the archery draw might have it's place. And yes, fully agreed, data is desperately required to make the best decision.

[H380]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

Excellent thought!

In addition why not simply leave rifle and archery seasons as they are, and make archery trophy mule deer a draw. And maybe address oufitter and landowner tags. The archery tag would still take fewer years to draw and we'd still rightfully have first crack over the rifle hunters. This would certainly increase trophy quality and make things more fair.

In the zones I've followed (south of Calgary) very closely for over two decades this would VERY well.

I'm not saying this would be the solution province wide, but the archery draw might have it's place. And yes, fully agreed, data is desperately required to make the best decision.

I agree with almost all you say .. However , I think land owner tags are the least of our worries . I know 3 guys here in the south with them and they haven't even killed a deer last 2 years .Hardly a drain on the system .

[KCL]

Originally Posted by H380

I agree with almost all you say .. However , I think land owner tags are the least of our worries . I know 3 guys here in the south with them and they haven't even killed a deer last 2 years .Hardly a drain on the system .

Oh, well if you know three guys then I agree, landowner tags are no issue at all.

[H380]

Originally Posted by KCL

Oh, well if you know three guys then I agree, landowner tags are no issue at all.

I was just making a comment .. you don't have to be a smart azz or maybe you do .

[KCL]

Originally Posted by H380

I was just making a comment .. you don't have to be a smart azz or maybe you do .

LOL, yeah for some reason I always do.

[ARGO GUY]

I think Potty and Sheep need to hug !!!!!

Originally Posted by ARGO GUY

I think Potty and Sheep need to hug !!!!!

LOL...it's just the internet....

Some lively discussions on here by some passionate people but I can't see anyone getting too upset in real life.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

LOL...it's just the internet....

Some lively discussions on here by some passionate people but I can't see anyone getting too upset in real life.

X2 I Concur!

[Toyota]

well, there are 200,000+ mulies in Alberta so i don't see why there changing it

Originally Posted by Toyota

well, there are 200,000+ mulies in Alberta so i don't see why there changing it

Where did you get that number? Last estimate I heard was about half that. That's less than one mule deer per hunter.

[MOAhunter]

Originally Posted by Toyota

well, there are 200,000+ mulies in Alberta so i don't see why there changing it

I'm real sure there's an even distribution of deer per WMU as well!

Wake up! Some WMUs draw as few as 5 tags.

http://www.mywildalberta.com/Hunting...e-13-2011B.pdf

Granted not all WMU's need to go to a draw, but some definitely do.

[flyguyd]

And some gave out as many as 1000 doe tags in 2010. that aint helping either

[bpk1982]

Originally Posted by 25-06rem.model700

Sheep is one year off after a harvest, which im fine with, and would be fine with mule deer it would give more of a trophy hunter mentality to people. If you want meat kill a antler less if your gonna take a antlered deer make it a mature animal

How about this...if you want a mature buck, shoot one...but don't tell other hunters they cant shoot a buck because you dont think its big enough...it's total BS to try and tell guys what they can and can't shoot or look down on them for it...I've seen some big smiles on friends faces from shooting smaller bucks or does...they were happy with the animal they got and that to me is way more important...

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

How about this...if you want a mature buck, shoot one...but don't tell other hunters they cant shoot a buck because you dont think its big enough...it's total BS to try and tell guys what they can and can't shoot or look down on them for it...I've seen some big smiles on friends faces from shooting smaller bucks or does...they were happy with the animal they got and that to me is way more important...

but if there werent so many of them doing it, then a draw may not be discussed at this point. srd doesnt care what size the buck is....just that it died.

[walking buffalo]

Sheephunter,


Are you in favour of changing the Archery Mule Deer general season to a draw before trying other management techniques to reduce harvest where proven neccessary?

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Sheephunter,


Are you in favour of changing the Archery Mule Deer general season to a draw before trying other management techniques to reduce harvest where proven neccessary?

He seems in favour of doing it with incomplete unreliable information.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

He seems in favour of doing it with incomplete unreliable information.

NOW you have done it....you tried to put words in Sheep's mouth....he "no likey"

LC

[Dr Death]

WB, have you had any position responses from any of the AGMAG members? I am still waiting.

[25-06rem.model700]

Originally Posted by bpk1982

How about this...if you want a mature buck, shoot one...but don't tell other hunters they cant shoot a buck because you dont think its big enough...it's total BS to try and tell guys what they can and can't shoot or look down on them for it...I've seen some big smiles on friends faces from shooting smaller bucks or does...they were happy with the animal they got and that to me is way more important...

Well if you wanna shoot a smaller buck then do it, but just remember that you can't hunt for a few years. If you wanna hunt for meat kill a doe but don't kill young promising bucks.

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Sheephunter,


Are you in favour of changing the Archery Mule Deer general season to a draw before trying other management techniques to reduce harvest where proven neccessary?

If the archery harvest can be reduced to below the 15% cap in affected WMUs by other means, I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

He seems in favour of doing it with incomplete unreliable information.

I'm not sure I'd brand 6 years of data, including 4 or 5 years of telephone surveys and observations by biologists as unreliable data. ESRD seems pretty confident in it.....