Sheep Part 3 - Page 14

walking buffalo · #**391** 02-18-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

The only way they will open anything would be for a draw.Not a bad thing though

Why would a draw be the only option "they" (SRD?) would consider for these areas?

209x50 · #**392** 02-18-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Keep on writing those letters, ask for a written reponse.

Ask for - information regarding the "problem" being addressed
- survey reports on sheep populations, age structure, harvest data
- alternative management strategies; habitat, predators

Exceptional advice. If you've sent a letter and didn't include what walking buffalo recommends don't hesitate to send another.

sheepguide · #**393** 02-18-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Why would a draw be the only option "they" (SRD?) would consider for these areas?

Just if they opened a general tag in these areas you would get people flocking to them and in a year or two the quality and quantity would drop drasticly.

Vindalbakken · #**394** 02-18-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just if they opened a general tag in these areas you would get people flocking to them and in a year or two the quality and quantity would drop drasticly.

Wouldn't take long for homeostasis to occur.

walking buffalo · #**395** 02-18-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just if they opened a general tag in these areas you would get people flocking to them and in a year or two the quality and quantity would drop drasticly.

I agree that would possibly be the result of an open general tag, and I am not opposed to draws being an option to reopen these areas.

But really, only Justin could answer the question regarding his comment.

If, and I hopefully mean when SRD reviews reopening these areas to hunting, all options should be on the table.

sheepguide · #**396** 02-18-2010, 11:32 AM

Just a little comparasin. If you opened up the Siffleur, WhiteGoat, Peter Lougheed and Kananaskis Valley you open up close to 2000 square miles. Sounds like alot. Thats roughly 44.7miles x 44.7 miles. This square milage is roughly equal to or less than the sheep areas of WMU 422 and 420 combined (by my rough measurments). It will help but how many tags would be opened and how many can the area sustain. If you opened them general you would have a couple good years of hunting but would be just like anywhere else after. It would releave a little pressure but not any great amounts.
Look at an area beside the Siffleur, the Whiterabbit is hunted by no more than 15 guys a year so its pretty easy to say that the siffleur wont get alot more. Sure it would as soon as it opens but would tapper off fast.
The White goat isnt a big area either and the guys hunting the Cline and Coral will just get a few more basins to get into.

Like I said they will help a little but not alot.

These parks equal 2000sq. miles but that all isnt sheep habitat! The area I measured in 420 and 422 is just them zones sheep area not areas like cutoff creek, elk creek and rock creek which hold no sheep.

Its an idea but not the sollution

SG

JustinC · #**397** 02-18-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Why would a draw be the only option "they" (SRD?) would consider for these areas?

Why did they close them? I dont see it opening as general.If it did there would be nothing left in a matter of a couple days after every single sheep hunter other than the guys that know what they are doing shoot it up.hell they might even give it a whirl.They dont want thhis so a draw would be the only way.This is only my prediction of what would happen. I could be way off on this but I dont think so.

sheepguide · #**398** 02-18-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Wouldn't take long for homeostasis to occur.

You know Vin you can say what you wish these zones have decent sheep numbers and sizes due to being closed. You open it to a general season then its exactly like every other zone in alberta. You cant argue that with any big words. It would actually be worse the first coulpe years as many people know what is there for rams so they would over populate the zone the first season and the sheep would get hit hard. Talk big but this is a fact.

Im not gunna get in an argument.

walking buffalo · #**399** 02-18-2010, 11:48 AM

[QUOTE=sheepguide;514269

Im not gunna get in an argument.[/QUOTE]

Just having fun with this one.

walking buffalo · #**400** 02-18-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

Why did they close them? I dont see it opening as general.If it did there would be nothing left in a matter of a couple days after every single sheep hunter other than the guys that know what they are doing shoot it up.hell they might even give it a whirl.They dont want thhis so a draw would be the only way.This is only my prediction of what would happen. I could be way off on this but I dont think so.

Thanks for the clarification to your comment.

Why did they close them? I don't know all the history on these closures, but I don't believe Sheep management was the concern. Wasn't is about creating more park land, no hunting areas, Y2Y.

Opening these areas to hunting for all big game, draw or open season, would reverse the trend of anti-hunting interest groups/Government closing land to hunting. Definately a good thing IMO.

JustinC · #**401** 02-18-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Thanks for the clarification to your comment.

Why did they close them? I don't know all the history on these closures, but I don't believe Sheep management was the concern. Wasn't is about creating more park land, no hunting areas, Y2Y.

Opening these areas to hunting for all big game, draw or open season, would reverse the trend of anti-hunting interest groups/Government closing land to hunting. Definately a good thing IMO.

I agree with you but I do not think these areas could handle a general season.I love when you go through peter lougheed every tree on the side of the road is destroyed from the elk.There is enogh there to allow some animals to be thined out but not that many.I would love to go in there to hunt just like my grandfather and my father did. My dad always talks about a place back there that him and his dad went for many many years.I would just love to have that chance to enjoy it like they did.

209x50 · #**402** 02-18-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

I agree with you but I do not think these areas could handle a general season.I love when you go through peter lougheed every tree on the side of the road is destroyed from the elk.There is enogh there to allow some animals to be thined out but not that many.I would love to go in there to hunt just like my grandfather and my father did. My dad always talks about a place back there that him and his dad went for many many years.I would just love to have that chance to enjoy it like they did.

They used to be all on general season, I'm sure they can handle it again.

Vindalbakken · #**403** 02-18-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepguide

You know Vin you can say what you wish these zones have decent sheep numbers and sizes due to being closed. You open it to a general season then its exactly like every other zone in alberta. You cant argue that with any big words. It would actually be worse the first coulpe years as many people know what is there for rams so they would over populate the zone the first season and the sheep would get hit hard. Talk big but this is a fact.

Im not gunna get in an argument.

I certainly wouldn't expect you to be happy with such a situation since you aren't happy with the current state of homeostasis in sheep hunting. Populations are stable, hunter numbers are stable... not enough "true trophies" for SG.

JustinC · #**404** 02-18-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209x50

They used to be all on general season, I'm sure they can handle it again.

Ya they were many years ago. So you want all of it to be the same as all the rest? It cant be anymore like I said people would hunt it to death.Show me a good elk zone in the mountains other than the parks . I would love to see a draw on this area or areas that are parks. I think they would be to shot up the other way.

walking buffalo · #**405** 02-18-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

Ya they were many years ago. So you want all of it to be the same as all the rest? It cant be anymore like I said people would hunt it to death.Show me a good elk zone in the mountains other than the parks . I would love to see a draw on this area or areas that are parks. I think they would be to shot up the other way.

Justin, are you implying that the problem with other areas, including DRAW elk, is from overhunting?

noneck180 · #**406** 02-18-2010, 12:51 PM

If you open a season in a Park that is protected, are you not then opening to aboriginal hunting as well ? Just a thought,, I know many game preserves here don't open a season for just this reason.

209x50 · #**407** 02-18-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

Ya they were many years ago. So you want all of it to be the same as all the rest? It cant be anymore like I said people would hunt it to death.Show me a good elk zone in the mountains other than the parks . I would love to see a draw on this area or areas that are parks. I think they would be to shot up the other way.

Justin none of these areas were closed to help game populations, they were closed so that none hunters wouldn't have to put up with hunters. These places were all general before and can be again. Will they get added pressure to begin with? Sure, but that will remove pressure from else where. I brought this idea forward quite a while ago and I'm amazed that people like you would be against added opportunity.

209x50 · #**408** 02-18-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneck180

If you open a season in a Park that is protected, are you not then opening to aboriginal hunting as well ? Just a thought,, I know many game preserves here don't open a season for just this reason.

Sure but they were before and to no detriment.

walking buffalo · #**409** 02-18-2010, 12:57 PM

209, Justin said he was for a draw in these areas. = added opportunity.

209x50 · #**410** 02-18-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

209, Justin said he was for a draw in these areas. = added opportunity.

i read what he typed that he was for a draw. I think these parks were before his time and was only pointing out that they were not closed for game management reasons and were general hunting tags before.

sheepguide · #**411** 02-18-2010, 01:09 PM

I think we are all for a limited draw in these zones just not a general season. And not like some other draws where they get carried away with the numbers of tags issued.

JustinC · #**412** 02-18-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209x50

Justin none of these areas were closed to help game populations, they were closed so that none hunters wouldn't have to put up with hunters. These places were all general before and can be again. Will they get added pressure to begin with? Sure, but that will remove pressure from else where. I brought this idea forward quite a while ago and I'm amazed that people like you would be against added opportunity.

People like me

What the hell is that suposse to mean? I am no different than you bud.

I dont Think it could handle a general season.It would be like opening Cadinon as a general.......A DRAW YES.......

Yes I hunted before they made these parks.I know they closed them down for no real reason other than for the tree huggers.

sheepguide · #**413** 02-18-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

I certainly wouldn't expect you to be happy with such a situation since you aren't happy with the current state of homeostasis in sheep hunting. Populations are stable, hunter numbers are stable... not enough "true trophies" for SG.

Honestly Vin I dont really care if I ever shoot another ram. I hunt out there because of the mountains and the adventure. I know this maybe doesnt make sense to an itelectual guy like your self but if you maybe got out there and enjoyed the country a little you may. Oh who am I kidding, unless you can shoot a sheep its not worth going!!!

209x50 · #**414** 02-18-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

People like me

What the hell is that suposse to mean? I am no different than you bud.

I dont Think it could handle a general season.It would be like opening Cadinon as a general.......A DRAW YES.......

Yes I hunted before they made these parks.I know they closed them down for no real reason other than for the tree huggers.

Why would it need to be draw? It wasn't before and while some of the park areas are highway accessible others are rather remote. I agree a draw is better than nothing but it still doesn't get us back to the access we had before.

209x50 · #**415** 02-18-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinC

People like me

What the hell is that suposse to mean? I am no different than you bud.

I dont Think it could handle a general season.It would be like opening Cadinon as a general.......A DRAW YES.......

Yes I hunted before they made these parks.I know they closed them down for no real reason other than for the tree huggers.

Cadomin is a completely artificial situation if you understood what you were talking about you would realize why you can't begin to compare these two situations.

sheepguide · #**416** 02-18-2010, 01:24 PM

Guess we might as well open up the Cadomin mine to a general area too!! As like you say guys it wont hurt to open a closed area. Sure there are maybe larger numbers of huge sheep but the situation is exactly the same. A closed area with an unhunted herd of sheep. These other areas are no slouch for sheep either, but all of that is because they arent hunted.

I know hundreds of guys that would swarm Mcdonald creek in the whitegoat if it opened. The rams wouldnt have a chance. Sorry but anyone that thinks that this wouldnt happen isnt firing on all cylinders!!!!!

Limited draw tags yes, general season not a chance unless you want them to be just average areas like everywhere else!!

sheepguide · #**417** 02-18-2010, 01:41 PM

The only differenc between cadomin and anywhere is the quality of feed!! Hunting will have the same affects on any non hunted population. Just think all the areas guys want to open are likely the same size as the mine. If guys wanna talk access. Every area that has been brought up is bordered by a major primary hwy!!

Sure Cadomin will get hit a little harder as people know what is there. Anyone that has any idea about parts of the other areas will do the same.

Jamie · #**418** 02-18-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Honestly Vin I dont really care if I ever shoot another ram. I hunt out there because of the mountains and the adventure. I know this maybe doesnt make sense to an itelectual guy like your self but if you maybe got out there and enjoyed the country a little you may. Oh who am I kidding, unless you can shoot a sheep its not worth going!!!

Unless you have a opportunity, it's called hiking.

Jamie

sheepguide · #**419** 02-18-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

Unless you have a opportunity, it's called hiking.

Jamie

was a point about me not just looking for a large ram around everycorner!! Some guys go for the adventure of being out there not just the killing of sheep. A sheep to some is a bonus to a great time in the mountains. To others a sheep is the only reason for going!!!

SG

Vindalbakken · #**420** 02-18-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepguide

I think we are all for a limited draw in these zones just not a general season. And not like some other draws where they get carried away with the numbers of tags issued.

Why don't you try speaking for yourself. Not everyone is for limiting opportunity to have more "big" sheep. Not everyone is for making more draw areas when there is no good reason for them not to be general.