Sheep Part 3

[Single Malt]

I believe that A.H.E.I.A. is also on this stakeholders group. (Alberta Hunter Eduction Instructors' Association)

[Bowhunter]

Originally Posted by Setterman

I think the average resident hunter is drasticly under represented in this group!!!! SM


Alberta Association Of Municipal Districts & Counties - No resident hunter representation
Alberta Beef Producers- No resident hunter representation

Alberta Bowhunters Association- only represents a small portion of resident hunters
Alberta Chapter of The Wildlife Society- not aware of their role??
Alberta Fish & Game Association- Yes they represent us!!
Alberta Professional Outfitters Society- Not even close
Alberta Sustainable Resource Development- Who knows??
Alberta Tourism Parks and Recreation-No
Hunting For Tomorrow- Run by an outfitter
Wild Sheep Foundation- has links/relationships with outfitters.


To me it is fairly evident who would push new regulations to limit resident hunters!!! SM

So....if the AFGA, the ABA, Wild Sheep and Hunting for tomorrow isn't enough representation of hunters.....whose missing? I would say those groups and the numbers they represent pretty much cover all of us. BTW....making a negative reference "run by an outfitter" about Kelly Semple (HFT) has no merit what so ever. Kelly has done more for hunting and the advancement of hunting that 99%(conservative) of the guys beeking on here.

Gary McCartney

[Single Malt]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter

So....if the AFGA, the ABA, Wild Sheep and Hunting for tomorrow isn't enough representation of hunters.....whose missing? I would say those groups and the numbers they represent pretty much cover all of us. BTW....making a negative reference "run by an outfitter" about Kelly Semple (HFT) has no merit what so ever. Kelly has done more for hunting and the advancement of hunting that 99%(conservative) of the guys beeking on here.

Gary McCartney

Hi Gary (from the ABA?),

I believe the point being made was that a lot of the organizations on this stakeholder group do not represent the resident hunter. (other than AFGA and ABA)

The comment made in regards to Hunting for Tomorrow is simply the truth as the person in charge of HFT is both in the outfitting industry and on the board of directors of APOS. Why is it negative to state the facts?

[Setterman]

Originally Posted by Bowhunter

So....if the AFGA, the ABA, Wild Sheep and Hunting for tomorrow isn't enough representation of hunters.....whose missing? I would say those groups and the numbers they represent pretty much cover all of us. BTW....making a negative reference "run by an outfitter" about Kelly Semple (HFT) has no merit what so ever. Kelly has done more for hunting and the advancement of hunting that 99%(conservative) of the guys beeking on here.

Gary McCartney

Hi Gary, First of all, I know Kelly Semple and consider her a friend. I have seen first hand what she has done for hunting so I don't need you to tell me.
My issue is this. If you look closely at some of the stakeholders listed above( and others) it is very clearly shown that APOS has its fingers in many of the hunting related organizations. FOR EXAMPLE - ABA- The former President of APOS is a sitting member of your executive. There are many more example easily researched onliine.

Do you think that a person linked to APOS on all these staked holders boards/executive is a coincidence??? They have their ear to the ground and hear things coming way before the average resident hunter. Maybe this is an issue that many people prefered to keep in the dark, well not me. This is one of the reasons why a board like this is so important. Getting the facts out to the resident hunters. I am tired of this interconnected web of organizations influencing our hunting rights. Cheers SM

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by depopulator

Mature rams that can be found in general units without the protection of mines and parks. Fact is they are hard to hunt and the country they live in is hard to get to. That coupled with higher natural mortality of mature rams, reduces the success rate on harvesting these rams. As it should be - this is sheep hunting, not chasing whitetails in the back 40. I would like to see the records of sheep registrations and the age class of harvested rams - I would not be surprised if it mirrors the natural age class composition. Do not forget that these resolutions are seemingly lacking any supporting data to indicate that there is a problem in the first place.

Further, the proposed resolutions will not accomplish anything other than reducing resident opportunity for the benefit of special interest groups; less resident pressure = less competition for guided non-residents. That's what the resolution to restrict resident hunting will accomplish. So, along with habitat enhancement and predator control, reductions or elimination of non-resident sheep allocations along with all non-residents put on draw, should be front and center before anything is considered to limit resident opportunity.

IMO, putting a 5-year wait on successful sheep hunters provides no foundation in reducing the harvest of young rams. If it will, then SRD must prove it. Fact is, 'most' first time sheep hunters want their one and only ram, and any legal ram will do. From what I have seen, once these first time sheep hunters see how hard it really is, they don't want to go back, and the pressure is on to take any legal ram and get out of there. The guys that return to the sheep ranges year after year in search of another ram are far more likely to be selective and take only mature rams. Hence, the 5-year wait will acomplish nothing other than eliminate those [successful] hunters that are more likely to directly compete with guided non-residents.

Good post Depop.

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Setterman

Hi Gary, First of all, I know Kelly Semple and consider her a friend. I have seen first hand what she has done for hunting so I don't need you to tell me.
My issue is this. If you look closely at some of the stakeholders listed above( and others) it is very clearly shown that APOS has its fingers in many of the hunting related organizations. FOR EXAMPLE - ABA- The former President of APOS is a sitting member of your executive. There are many more example easily researched onliine.

Do you think that a person linked to APOS on all these staked holders boards/executive is a coincidence??? They have their ear to the ground and hear things coming way before the average resident hunter. Maybe this is an issue that many people prefered to keep in the dark, well not me. This is one of the reasons why a board like this is so important. Getting the facts out to the resident hunters. I am tired of this interconnected web of organizations influencing our hunting rights. Cheers SM

Agreed. This was one of the issues that was raised when RAMP/OS first hit the street. For all the separate organizations you can quickly connect the dots and see that they often aren't all that different.

[noneck180]

I have been reading this thread from the begining and sure has gotten a lot more constructive since SG stopped posting,, Great Job guys keep it up

[chicken]

...well
regardless what kind of problems on all this sheep threads beiing solved, created, discussed or whatever there are definitely some nice rams out there. Time to enjoy a couple more photos in this very short intermission

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by noneck180

I have been reading this thread from the begining and sure has gotten a lot more constructive since SG stopped posting,, Great Job guys keep it up

Go back to the rock you crawld out from.It was so much nicer when you were suspended from the forum.


Also quite sending me your pm's Say it for all to see on here. I see you call me a Coward but you and all your buddies send me that pathetic BS all the time.When you leave this forum is when we all will be better off.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by chicken

...well
regardless what kind of problems on all this sheep threads beiing solved, created, discussed or whatever there are definitely some nice rams out there. Time to enjoy a couple more photos in this very short intermission

Nice pics chicken!!! Thanks for posting.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by chicken

...well
regardless what kind of problems on all this sheep threads beiing solved, created, discussed or whatever there are definitely some nice rams out there. Time to enjoy a couple more photos in this very short intermission

Sweet pics Thanks for sharing.

[noneck180]

later C.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by noneck180

You are are Coward,,Justin,, you have nothing to say until I say somthing about your buddy, OH stop PMing me,, I should have copy and pasted what you sent under the cover of PMs,, give it up

You are a coward.Have you even been sheep hunting? I would bet not.I have had nothing to say I have kept with this since it started. You have not been bugging anybody for one week and you get back on here for 5 minutes and you cant keep your mouth shut.I hope they kick you off next time.I will do my best to get you off of here so no one else has to play your little games.I would of guessed you would have learned.

[chicken]

took the photos on a early moring at their salt licking range
...however outside the parks !!!

He should be 5-6 years old. It looks to me that he had some fights during the past rutting season...one more

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by chicken

took the photos on a early moring at their salt licking range
...however outside the parks !!!

He should be 5-6 years old. It looks to me that he had some fights during the past rutting season...one more

does look like a scrapper chicken. That old nose has taken a few hits for sure!!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by chicken

took the photos on a early moring at their salt licking range
...however outside the parks !!!

He should be 5-6 years old. It looks to me that he had some fights during the past rutting season...one more

Where is that up north or down south?

[chicken]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Where is that up north or down south?

It is south!!
How would you score him?
His horn base doesn't look that massive to me

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by chicken

It is south!!
How would you score him?
His horn base doesn't look that massive to me

That is funny. I dont care about the score on a ram I think they are all trophies.

[Huntnut]

This is Jim Allen's response to my email when I questioned him on why the 5 year wait period was being considered.

this item was discussed at our provincial advisory group a few weeks ago and it has little support.
we will NOT be taking it forward for further discussion.
Thanks for your input

Originally Posted by Huntnut

This is Jim Allen's response to my email when I questioned him on why the 5 year wait period was being considered.

this item was discussed at our provincial advisory group a few weeks ago and it has little support.
we will NOT be taking it forward for further discussion.
Thanks for your input

Amazing how a little pressure can cause F&W to do a complete 180 in a matter of weeks. Keep letting them know of your concerns.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by Huntnut

This is Jim Allen's response to my email when I questioned him on why the 5 year wait period was being considered.

this item was discussed at our provincial advisory group a few weeks ago and it has little support.
we will NOT be taking it forward for further discussion.
Thanks for your input

Looks like we have made a little progress!!!

[ramshorn]

I am glad they are not taking the 5 year wait forward, but it leaves my wondering are they considering other action in regards to sheep hunting?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ramshorn

I am glad they are not taking the 5 year wait forward, but it leaves my wondering are they considering other action in regards to sheep hunting?

We will have to be ready to make them defend their position if they have.

Originally Posted by ramshorn

I am glad they are not taking the 5 year wait forward, but it leaves my wondering are they considering other action in regards to sheep hunting?

Here are some of the more popular options that I've heard

1. have a longer wait period after killing a ram.
2. putting rams on a draw
3. having a limit of the number of rams a person is entitled to shoot in
a life time.
4. increasing the 4/5 size regulation to full curl"


Funny how none address the real issues. There are so many opportunities to increase the areas we can hunt and increase the carrying capacity of the winter range but only more restrictive hunter regulations are offered. Sad.

[sheepguide]

Looks to me like the next steps get worse as we go. Would be nice if there is an issue that we can keep decent hunting oppertunity but now things are gunna go towards draws, lifetime numbers or bigger curls. I really hope it doesnt go these ways as it will even limit guys more than the 5 year wait.

Full curl will keep guys out there but I think harvest numbers will drop drasticly! Lots of older rams will be out there(which I like) but many will never reach legal and I beleive we will en up with more age related deaths.

Lifetime numbers kinda works like the wait period just all depends on what the number is. Im sure the number wont be very high.

Draws can be touchy as they can put out few or to many! The draw applicants out number the general hunters by over 3 times. Roughly 2000 guys buy general tags and I beleive its over 7000 that put in for sheep draws. Doesnt make it very good for the guys that are out there every year. And that is what everyone wants. No punishment for the die hards!!!

I do beleive they will push forward with some type of control measure its just to see how drastic it affects hunters and how it actually helps the sheep.

All the guys on here are right if you do or dont agree with the proposals be sure to get them letters and emails in. We all have an opinion what will work or be best. Voice that opinion no matter what any of us on here say. Just because you dont agree with certain people dont think that your wrong. Stck by what you beleive and push towards that goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

[medicmoose]

"Funny how none address the real issues. There are so many opportunities to increase the areas we can hunt and increase the carrying capacity of the winter range but only more restrictive hunter regulations are offered. Sad."

Perhaps If they opened new areas to hunt it would in turn lessen pressure on the animals in other area's?

Just a thought!

MM

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

"Funny how none address the real issues. There are so many opportunities to increase the areas we can hunt and increase the carrying capacity of the winter range but only more restrictive hunter regulations are offered. Sad."

Perhaps If they opened new areas to hunt it would in turn lessen pressure on the animals in other area's?

Just a thought!

MM

Your right moose but these actually been brought up. There are a few areas to open that are currently closed but would only open a limited number of tags. It will help but not cure any province wide issues(if there are any).

As far as more or improved winter range it cant do anything but help but right now alot of winter range is holding way less numbers of sheep than previous years. Some mountains that had high numbers have no sheep now!!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by medicmoose

"Funny how none address the real issues. There are so many opportunities to increase the areas we can hunt and increase the carrying capacity of the winter range but only more restrictive hunter regulations are offered. Sad."

Perhaps If they opened new areas to hunt it would in turn lessen pressure on the animals in other area's?

Just a thought!

MM

Oh course it would and there are couple of thousand square miles out there lost to wilderness parks alone. I brought this up a while back but it was pooh poohed by a genius who figured that a couple of thousand square miles was insignificant. Huh, not in my world.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Oh course it would and there are couple of thousand square miles out there lost to wilderness parks alone. I brought this up a while back but it was pooh poohed by a genius who figured that a couple of thousand square miles was insignificant. Huh, not in my world.

The only way they will open anything would be for a draw.Not a bad thing though

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Here are some of the more popular options that I've heard

1. have a longer wait period after killing a ram.
2. putting rams on a draw
3. having a limit of the number of rams a person is entitled to shoot in
a life time.
4. increasing the 4/5 size regulation to full curl"


Funny how none address the real issues. There are so many opportunities to increase the areas we can hunt and increase the carrying capacity of the winter range but only more restrictive hunter regulations are offered. Sad.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Your right moose but these actually been brought up. There are a few areas to open that are currently closed but would only open a limited number of tags. It will help but not cure any province wide issues(if there are any).

As far as more or improved winter range it cant do anything but help but right now alot of winter range is holding way less numbers of sheep than previous years. Some mountains that had high numbers have no sheep now!!

Keep on writing those letters, ask for a written reponse.

Ask for - information regarding the "problem" being addressed
- survey reports on sheep populations, age structure, harvest data
- alternative management strategies; habitat, predators