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06-08-2017, 03:51 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Awhile back I went on a hike in Blackfoot through a hiking group through an internet group. We met at waskahigan staging area.(trying to meet woman to tell you the truth), anyway, about halfway through a shot was heard in the distance. Talk about stirring a hornets nest! Some of the group(about 20 in group) wanted to turn around before they were shot, others wanted to go towards the shot and give the shooter a peice of their mind, and all were writing their mla and parks etc etc. Was bad enough listening to the ndp rallies they were going to attend in upcoming weeks but that was something else. Ended the hike with no other shots fired and I couldn't jump in my gas guzzling old rusty pick up fast enough. No they don't like to share areas with hunters.
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How come you didn't fill them in?
People are afraid of what they don't understand.
I've filed in a few hikers taken aback by being pleasantly greeted by a man with a gun: "omg its it safe to hike still"
Yeah, absolutely. Stay on trail, talk lots, and don't wear your deer fur coat...
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06-08-2017, 03:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck-the-chimp
How come you didn't fill them in?
People are afraid of what they don't understand.
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There minds were made up. The ones on the fence will listen. These women were not on a fence.
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06-08-2017, 04:03 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 11,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterninja
Only problem I have ever had there is if someones dog is not under proper control.
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Had that a few times as well in there. Having a dog chomping on my youngest's pants leg was a good exercise in my self-control...
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06-08-2017, 04:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
There minds were made up. The ones on the fence will listen. These women were not on a fence.
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Imagine the discussion if you had started dated one of them, and the group had not heard that shot.
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06-08-2017, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 242
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Your Backyard
So the government, the ill informed and willfully ignorant continue to take from the hunting community and when we're finally invited to the table our answer is to not participate? My new question is at what point do you fight back. Castle is ongoing. Ministik lost some prime area last fall. Now we're willing to let EINP slide and maybe even Blackfoot? Well why carry on at Suffield or Wainwright or Cypress, or 248 bow zone etc etc…We need to take opportunity to speak favourably for hunting especially when invited. If we don't the ignorance will eventually find your backyard.
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06-09-2017, 12:09 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 663
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Let's get one thing straight our government did a **** poor job managing this park from the get go. Why wasn't the thought of over populated elk in the park a future outlook years ago. Absolutely ridiculous !!!
Now that CwD has been present in Alberta these elk suffer while they should be able to be introduced in less populated zones for us hunters to enjoy.
This government is so bad it makes me sick!!!!! Colorado and Montana have more elk than we have people in Alberta and you never hear these stories come up.
Politicians are all talk no action remind me of salesmen or saleswomen.
I highly respect the wapiti and it's an absolute disgrace on how we manage these beautiful creatures in this province.
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06-09-2017, 07:25 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic
So the government, the ill informed and willfully ignorant continue to take from the hunting community and when we're finally invited to the table our answer is to not participate? My new question is at what point do you fight back. Castle is ongoing. Ministik lost some prime area last fall. Now we're willing to let EINP slide and maybe even Blackfoot? Well why carry on at Suffield or Wainwright or Cypress, or 248 bow zone etc etc…We need to take opportunity to speak favourably for hunting especially when invited. If we don't the ignorance will eventually find your backyard.
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You are far too reasonable and understanding of the bigger picture to be on this forum.
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06-10-2017, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stanger
Posts: 969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Should be a resident opportunity only....period IMHO. Or transplant more to Suffield, the ones down there are all gone
Oh....and if hunting takes place in the park, disallow the culled elk from record book award entry.
LC
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With it being a fenced herd it would already be disqualified from both B&C and P&Y.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
__________________
Ecclesiastes 10:2
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06-11-2017, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,398
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Guys, Elk island has not been miss-managed as a park in the past. Most areas in Alberta where we now have good elk numbers came from transfer of surplus elk from the park. When I was member of Fort Sask F & Game in 70's we donated $$ to transfer elk from park to Peace Country, now one of the best elk areas in Alberta. Lots of transfers and releases to Rocky area as well.
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06-11-2017, 11:42 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
Ya, but these were more of a school teacher crowd, no dread locks and bright colours. Figured a few might shave... haha
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Well did they? And where? Hopefully this isn't the end of the story.
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06-11-2017, 11:46 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: GRAND PRAIRIE
Posts: 5,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger257
With it being a fenced herd it would already be disqualified from both B&C and P&Y.
Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
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Is Suffield a fenced-in area do those animals count in Boone and Crockett and Pope and young just wondering
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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06-11-2017, 01:43 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
Well did they? And where? Hopefully this isn't the end of the story.
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The end my friend.
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06-11-2017, 02:34 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
The end my friend.
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Rats I was hoping for a happy ending for you. Maybe try a knitting club. Might be able to find love there or at least a new toque and a pair of mittens.
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06-12-2017, 06:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rycroft
Posts: 21,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwest Alta
Rats I was hoping for a happy ending for you. Maybe try a knitting club. Might be able to find love there or at least a new toque and a pair of mittens.
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06-12-2017, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 424
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Elk Island Hunt
THis is Hunt is totally ridiculous. NO ONE SHOULD BE hunting in the national park. If they want to thin the herd the wardens in conjunction with the food bank should harvest the animals that are necessary. Just like they did in Banff and no one really heard about it. Safe and no fights.
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06-12-2017, 10:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 266
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while we are at it we may as well invest in contraceptives for the animals in elk island so they cant reproduce anymore. Its the only humane way to deal with the animals to prevent anyone from harming them.
Wont anyone think of the animals!!
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06-12-2017, 10:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 whelen
Is Suffield a fenced-in area do those animals count in Boone and Crockett and Pope and young just wondering
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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Yes they are eligible because they can come and go as they please.
LC
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06-13-2017, 11:24 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,411
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Thank you 700-223!
This is by far the best post amid all the peripheral banter.
I hope that everyone reads it rather than skipping along in favour of dissing semantics.
Concerns of "trophy" records, desires for hiding the truth of hunting from others, avoiding a chance to promote and expand hunting as a wildlife management tool and acceptable interaction of humans as part of nature....
All self imposed impediments that are harmful to the continuation of hunting for future generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 700-223
Allow hunting by draw, open and equal access to all, drop hunters off at randomly drawn sites and allow the use of vehicles only to the nearest access point (road) for the retrieval of game if an animal is harvested. No race to find the herd, chasing animals all over etc, tracking up the park. Or park officials to provide packhorses/transportation of game back to vehicles to minimize environmental impact. Jump gates won't lower the population enough and will irritate surrounding farmers though could be done in addition to allowing hunting, and effectiveness and ethics of hunt should be compared to the only reasonable alternative - a cull. In other words, the least environmentally damaging and disruptive manner possible consistent with a park.
IMO, there is nothing incompatible about hunting with national parks - they exist to preserve wilderness for us and future generations. Hunting should be used to enhance and maintain the health of our parks, if closely regulated to minimize the impact on other users. The idea that nature will take care of itself is ludicrous. Extinction events are natural, so are population booms and busts, as are people! We have altered the landscape (as do all organisms), so we need to begin seeing ourselves as part of nature and begin to intentionally minimize and mitigate unsustainable conditions around us.
Seems to me that some hunters are guilty of elitism. If your hunt doesnt fit what they think is right, they look down at you. In my opinion, they are one-percenters of a different kind.
A major reason behind the North American model of wildlife management is to maintain healthy game populations and ecosystems. Given there is overpopulation of elk in this park causing damage to grazing conditions and increased risk of disease amongst the species, this is about reducing elk numbers. This is in fact part of the major purpose behind every hunting season in North America i.e. sustainable harvest. Annual hunting can vary from inadequate to control population to unsustainable from area to area and species to species. The hunting season is limited to minimize stress to the animals and to minimize losses to hunting, but what do we do when annual losses to age, predation, hunting, and other causes are inadequate to control a population to the detriment of the ecosystem? The idea of "fair chase" is part of this as well. There is nothing inherently ethical about hiking further, giving the animal a greater chance of escape, increasing your risk of not harvesting an animal during hunting season, and not hunting year round other than its beneficial effects on wildlife management. Taken to the extreme, this attitude leads to stupid statements like, "give the bear a fair chance and take him on with a knife." Part of the reason for "fair chase" ethics is to limit hunting success rate and annual harvest.
"Fair chase" and using what you take is of course also about respecting the animals and the environment that we all share, but as long as the hunting conditions mandated maintain a sustainable population of game another species it's ethical. Do it legally, safely, and minimize the chance of undue suffering for the animal. Do it in pink multicam with a semiautomatic Garand for all I care. The number of hunters, harvest rate, game numbers and changes to the environment should determine legal hunting methods, not aesthetic concerns. In a case like this, there is nothing wrong with a high success rate hunt. The money from tags can be put to conservation and habitat maintenance, the GMO/Abx/GH free organic game can be eaten, and the health of the herd and the park ecosystem improved. The idea that subsistence hunting is more ethical than big game hunting in the backcountry on foot (and using the consumable meat) than shooting a deer in the back forty is ridiculous and counterproductive. We are all going to share in the health or illness of our environment, so we should keep that in mind!
Ask me if I care if you walk 500 m from your truck to take one rather than 15 km on foot carrying ultralight camping gear with a bow you made with your own hands drinking your own urine and living off the land for days. Some hunters seem to value hunting for the opportunity to look down on others, you decide if this is you or not as I'm not going to name names.
Hunting should be an inclusive activity, part of good stewardship of our environment, an opportunity to connect with cultural and family traditions, and a sustainable way to obtain protein while managing game populations as well as habitat and related prey and predator game. For those of you who think the way you hunt is the only good and right way I say - Good day!
I hunted two half days a couple of years ago and took a small buck in a field a quarter section from the house. Three years ago, I stayed overnight in the backcountry, hunting 4 or 5 days and got a big bodied buck about at the end of my last day. Last year, I covered a lot of ground in the truck from area to area and a lot of time on foot over 3 or 4 days and didn't see much. Chose not to take anything as the freezer wasn't empty and numbers seemed to be down in the areas we covered. IMO, all were great hunts for the time I had available, all were ethical, legal and safe.
I believe hunting is an ethical and environmentally sustainable activity that is essential for our society to truly appreciate and care for our environment. I know I'm dreaming thinking parks will try to utilize hunters and give them credit, but a guy can dream, right? Anyway, I've said more than I should and wandered a bit off topic but hope this is worth the (long) read to someone.
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__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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07-19-2017, 11:43 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 11,580
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Did any further information come out regarding this proposed hunt in EINP?
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07-19-2017, 01:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 137
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Luv this thread. If people would stop trying to equate this cull with hunting and treat it for what it is I think the problems would melt away. Bait them in, snare them, whatever? The idea is to kill them period.....and not by hunting! Shooting, yes, Hunting, no.
Best of all the image of hunting would not be smeared.
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07-19-2017, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,283
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A cull is a cull, not a hunt and not a fundraiser. It should be left that way. Trying to be "sporty" about it misses the whole point. A cull of this type can be organized and executed in a very short time by just a few individuals. A "hunt" requires far too much organization, takes too long and undoubtably ends up in a cluster with no one very happy in the end anyway. If EI Park needs a cull, let them do it and move on. There are lots of Elk outside the fences.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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07-19-2017, 11:57 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 509
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Boys relax . Count to ten he asked for new info not old wining .
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07-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,283
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Being that EINP is a Federal Park, on Federal land, why not allow other Canadian residents to have a say on what goes on with this herd reduction ? I'm sure there are other Canadians that would like to participate in a "hunt " as well.
Given the logistics of inviting the public to participate in cull such as this, in this location, has all the makings of a real fiasco and would not be a viable alternative. Let the Feds handle it. They probably will anyway.
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When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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08-17-2017, 09:40 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 249
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Any new news on this? Heard from a guy at the range there was maybe another info night on this? Maybe right?
Internet search yields bupkiss....
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08-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Alberta
Posts: 25
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Please please please pretty please let me in with a bow to know down a bison!
Lots of money to be made for the park.. Ufortuantely they are more likely to allow Canada's first people to take what they want before considering the rest of us lowly Canucks in there with a draw.
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