2013 Archery Mule deer going on Draw

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not really pointing any fingers or saying it's right or wrong but I do find it a bit amusing that some of those that are the most upset seem to also think it's unfair that non-residents can get a tag every year without going through the draw process and that they are getting more than the 10% cap yet they feel it's okay that bowhunters can get a tag every year while 85% of the hunting population must wait long periods in the draw and that it also okay to get more than the 15% cap. You must admit there is a bit od hypocracy here. I know, everyone could become a bow hunter if they weren't so lazy and pathetic but I guess everyone could become a non-resident too.

I don't think it's hypocritical at all, Albertans should be served first, if there is not enough to go around, then there sure as heck shouldn't be a non resident hunting it. But hey it's Alberta, the only rule is the guy with the money makes the rules. Pretty sad when a non resident special interest group gets served before a resident, and the money part of it rings pretty hollow. All these supposed benefits for all Albertans, bull pucky, a few making money on what is a sideline. All the "money" in Alberta supports it because they fear they will be penalized in other markets, and not be able to hunt out of province. I don't care whether they can or not, in my Alberta money doesn't buy everything, and not everything has a price tag hanging off it.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KCL

Oh, I thought that bowhunters make up 15 % of the total hunters therefore they are allowed 15% of total harvest. I think that when the total harvest surpasses the 15% then the WMU is put on draw, so if the total number of bowhunters in relation to total hunters was 20% then they would be allowed 20% of total harvest. If it dropped to 10% of total hunters then 10% of total harvest. Am I wrong here? I would say the half assed rifle hunters who buy bow permits are doing you a favour, but on the other hand I don't really care. Back to your self righteousness LC.

Thanks for the unwarranted cheapshot LOL. Not sure what your last comment is in relation to....not sure how I pee'd in your cornflakes specifically....

By your logic, (and I wish this was true ).....if 25% of the hunters were bowhunters then anything under 25% would stay on a general season and be allotted to a general season.....I was just saying I don't think they would do this.

The funny part is I rifle and bowhunt and I don't specifically target mule deer with my bow....so no self righteousness here

I just don't like the trends I see.....

We don't know what they would do as numbers have yet to hit that level. All the rifle guys (which I happen to be one of too) could all buy bow permits to find out....After all, If 100% of hunters bought archery permits then 100% of hunters would be utilizing the tags right no matter whether they used a bow or rifle to take an animal.

LC

[KCL]

If 25% of the hunters are bowhunters then they should receive 25% of the licenses given out in the draw.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KCL

If 25% of the hunters are bowhunters then they should receive 25% of the licenses given out in the draw.

If this is how it works then great! I would stand corrected. I am not sure if this holds true though....I understood it as a hard cap of 15% of total harvest not a floating target.

LC

[KCL]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If this is how it works then great! I would stand corrected. I am not sure if this holds true though....I understood it as a hard cap of 15% of total harvest not a floating target.

LC

The percentage of bowhunters is 15%. Be careful, if rifle hunters have to choose in a draw situation, the percentage of bowhunters could go down, while the amount of deer killed by bowhunters stays relatively the same and bowhunter allocated licenses might actually go down, the draw will give the SRD better numbers to work with.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by KCL

The percentage of bowhunters is 15%. Be careful, if rifle hunters have to choose in a draw situation, the percentage of bowhunters could go down, while the amount of deer killed by bowhunters stays relatively the same and bowhunter allocated licenses might actually go down, the draw will give the SRD better numbers to work with.

Of course this is pure speculation like the last 10 pages of this thread.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by KCL

Of course this is pure speculation like the last 10 pages of this thread.

That I can agree with

LC

[bb356]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

That I can agree with

LC

x2 !!!

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

For example they would not allow 25% of the harvest to the bowhunter if the number of permits hit 25% of the total hunters.

LC

Where did you get that info???????????? Why wouldn't they increase it to keep it proportional??? Or perhaps that is just wild speculation.

Edit...sorry, I see someone called you on it already...nevermind.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Where did you get that info???????????? Why wouldn't they increase it to keep it proportional??? Or perhaps that is just wild speculation.

I am a wild and crazy guy

I can't see SRD taking away draw opportunities from rifle hunters to allow archery folks to hunt on a general tag....so yes I am speculating

Once things go on draw when do they decide to take it off draw and go back to general archery seasons? How do they collect that data?

LC

[MOAhunter]

If the archery draw actually happens it will be interesting to see how it gets laid out!

Yes, indeed most bucks by quantity are taken by rifle. I'm not for a second suggesting the archers are slaying all the bucks, but this is a fact -
"I follow a couple WMUs very closely: I talk to landowners, bowhunters riflehunters and the butchers. In no uncertain terms - The vast majority of big bucks are taken with bows."


As a rifle hunter most of my life and a relative newbie bowhunter, I'm overjoyed to see archery muledeer going to a draw. Really! How many B&C deer does does a guy need to harvest in a lifetime??? Besides, it will make the hunting more private and landowners won't be bothered with every clown that buys a bow and general tag all in the same day and instantly becomes a bowhunter.

No doubt, the landowner and outfitter tags are a serious problem!

[H380]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

If the archery draw actually happens it will be interesting to see how it gets laid out!

Yes, indeed most bucks by quantity are taken by rifle. I'm not for a second suggesting the archers are slaying all the bucks, but this is a fact -
"I follow a couple WMUs very closely: I talk to landowners, bowhunters riflehunters and the butchers. In no uncertain terms - The vast majority of big bucks are taken with bows."


As a rifle hunter most of my life and a relative newbie bowhunter, I'm overjoyed to see archery muledeer going to a draw. Really! How many B&C deer does does a guy need to harvest in a lifetime??? Besides, it will make the hunting more private and landowners won't be bothered with every clown that buys a bow and general tag all in the same day and instantly becomes a bowhunter.

No doubt, the landowner and outfitter tags are a serious problem!

Are you for real ? How many B&C bucks do you think are taken every year here in Alberta ? Not very many by bow hunters or rifle hunters ..Oh thats right , there all taken by bowhunters , there are none left for rifle hunters .

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

How many B&C deer does does a guy need to harvest in a lifetime??? !

if you are going to keep this to mule deer, isnt there only 1 person in alberta that has killed more than one book deer? that argument holds no water.

the only thing clear in this discussion is that srd really should have better surveying methods in place, and in typical fashion there have been some very good suggestions from a few AO members on how to do it. i have no doubt that archers are exceeding their fair share of harvest in some wmus. without some real numbers it is just a guess as to which wmus and by how much, but to think it isnt happening is pretty silly. i wont argue that some areas need some help, but exactly which ones might be debatable. my avatar shows pretty clear that i am a bowhunter too, but common sense says that things need to be kept fair for all hunters.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

if you are going to keep this to mule deer, isnt there only 1 person in alberta that has killed more than one book deer? that argument holds no water.

the only thing clear in this discussion is that srd really should have better surveying methods in place, and in typical fashion there have been some very good suggestions from a few AO members on how to do it. i have no doubt that archers are exceeding their fair share of harvest in some wmus. without some real numbers it is just a guess as to which wmus and by how much, but to think it isnt happening is pretty silly. i wont argue that some areas need some help, but exactly which ones might be debatable. my avatar shows pretty clear that i am a bowhunter too, but common sense says that things need to be kept fair for all hunters.

I think we all know there is more than 1 guy with multiple book deer, just not everybody puts them in the book.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by KCL

I think we all know there is more than 1 guy with multiple book deer, just not everybody puts them in the book.

deer including whitetails, then yes, dont have to tell me. mule deer however....i have my doubts. a poll here showed that myabe half dont see the books. last book printed had a grand total of 45 mule deer from alberta....ever. double that for those not entered and that makes 90. multiple guys with multiple booner mules in alberta......L O L O L!!!!!!! oh , and the guy i know of with 2 hasnt entered either. i wonder how many guys that get to hunt mules in GOOD places like utah arizona and saskatchewan have more than one. i doubt there are more than 20. someone must know?

[KCL]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

deer including whitetails, then yes, dont have to tell me. mule deer however....i have my doubts. a poll here showed that myabe half dont see the books. last book printed had a grand total of 45 mule deer from alberta....ever. double that for those not entered and that makes 90. multiple guys with multiple booner mules in alberta......L O L O L!!!!!!! oh , and the guy i know of with 2 hasnt entered either. i wonder how many guys that get to hunt mules in GOOD places like utah arizona and saskatchewan have more than one. i doubt there are more than 20. someone must know?

Ok, so you know one and I know one, theres two in Alberta.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by KCL

Ok, so you know one and I know one, theres two in Alberta.

not if its the same guy....

besides you seemed to be suggesting there are several. there are not.

edit....sorry it wasnt you that suggested it. someone else did.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

not if its the same guy....

besides you seemed to be suggesting there are several. there are not.

edit....sorry it wasnt you that suggested it. someone else did.

Could be the same guy but I don't think so. Who knows, small world.

[Davi54rOv]

bullet to travel

[CBintheNorth]

Ok, someone else has to see the humour in this? An 11 page rant about a SPECULATION! When the actual result comes out I'll bet that the thread is less than two pages.
We as Outdoorsmen should all agree that managing the resource for everyone's enjoyment should be paramount. If it were Natives that were speculated to be the culprits everyone would be up in arms to limit their quota.
And no I am not Native, and yes I bowhunt as well as with a rifle.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by CBintheNorth

Ok, someone else has to see the humour in this? An 11 page rant about a SPECULATION! When the actual result comes out I'll bet that the thread is less than two pages.
We as Outdoorsmen should all agree that managing the resource for everyone's enjoyment should be paramount. If it were Natives that were speculated to be the culprits everyone would be up in arms to limit their quota.
And no I am not Native, and yes I bowhunt as well as with a rifle.

were you around for the epic sheep threads that went over 100 pages all told? this aint nothing. to be honest, now is the time to be getting excited and writing letters and hollering as loud as you can for what you believe in. once its done, it is too late for 11 or more pages of complaining. dont underestimate the power of this forum to rally hunters into action when their passions are threatened.

[Big Daddy Badger]

To be honest it wouldn't bother me if the archery folks had to draw for everything that the rifle guys have to.
We're all having our fun cut back a bit right now so...why not the archery guys to?

There are already/still enough considerations to compensate for their choice of game-getter.

And the key word is choice.
You choose archery, BP or regular rifle.

Seems like most guys that choose either of the first two enjoy the increased challenge almost as much as extended seasons and increased opportunity.

No offence folks but if you want to arrow something... you should probably have to wait in line to do it....just like everyone else.. especially when we are trying to rebuilt the herds.

I'd also favour trimming the archery season or making it coincide with rifle season for a year or two if that might help in the long haul.

A couple years of sort of sucky hunting would be worth it if we could see the critters bounce back sooner.

[pottymouth]

Reducing hunter opportunity isn't the best method to rebuild a vibrant herd! Accepting a reduction in hunting opportunity, would essentially be accepting that hunters alone caused a herd depletion, when we know that's not a fact either!

[CBintheNorth]

Oh I underestimate very little, I S B . Especially when it comes to people as passionate as we hunters. My opinion on this probably differs from the majority of others by the sounds of it though. I hear people criticizing srd often about how they are re-active instead of pro-active and now that they are finally trying to do something good before it's too late (i m o), there are a few that would have them crucified!
The way I see it, if a harvest is not on draw, how can they really control the possible number of animals taken? Granted, not all animals need to be controlled the same but how else do you determine harvest success? The point has been made several times that the current survey method is flawed so that's out.

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Reducing hunter opportunity isn't the best method to rebuild a vibrant herd! Accepting a reduction in hunting opportunity, would essentially be accepting that hunters alone caused a herd depletion, when we know that's not a fact either!

Do you think no zones should go one draw???? If so, open your eyes....

Some zones desperately need more intense management....Saying they dont is ignorance to the issue at hand.

[H380]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

Do you think no zones should go one draw???? If so, open your eyes....

Some zones desperately need more intense management....Saying they dont is ignorance to the issue at hand.

I have no problem with a draw if it can be proven to be needed. The problem I have is where SRD comes up with their harvest figures . If a mandatory hunter registration is not in place there is no way they can accurately decide what to do with the seasons. And I don't just mean harvest rates , all hunters should be required to fill out a survey , whether they make a kill or not . Putting figures to paper that don't exist just because " they heard that so and so got a deer " doesn't cut it with me . Sorry .

[stringer]

Originally Posted by pesky672

To be honest it wouldn't bother me if the archery folks had to draw for everything that the rifle guys have to.
We're all having our fun cut back a bit right now so...why not the archery guys to?

There are already/still enough considerations to compensate for their choice of game-getter.

And the key word is choice.
You choose archery, BP or regular rifle.

Seems like most guys that choose either of the first two enjoy the increased challenge almost as much as extended seasons and increased opportunity.

No offence folks but if you want to arrow something... you should probably have to wait in line to do it....just like everyone else.. especially when we are trying to rebuilt the herds.

I'd also favour trimming the archery season or making it coincide with rifle season for a year or two if that might help in the long haul.

A couple years of sort of sucky hunting would be worth it if we could see the critters bounce back sooner.

Why not make it fair for everyone and close all the hunting down for a couple of years that should solve the problen.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by H380

I have no problem with a draw if it can be proven to be needed. The problem I have is where SRD comes up with their harvest figures . If a mandatory hunter registration is not in place there is no way they can accurately decide what to do with the seasons. And I don't just mean harvest rates , all hunters should be required to fill out a survey , whether they make a kill or not . Putting figures to paper that don't exist just because " they heard that so and so got a deer " doesn't cut it with me . Sorry .

^^^^^^^^^
Agreed....

This is my main issue...I have said it before....

A voluntary survey is only as good as the information people are willing to volunteer up....if whether or not something goes on draw is based on this information alone then I see that as a statistical flaw.

Collect real representative data, review it, and makes changes as necessary.

The information Dr. D posted was disheartening.....in the one zone he was dicussing there was only 10 respondents....2 of which were confirmed archery hunters and the decision on that zone is based on such a small sample size?

Might as well use a random number generator to make the decision.

Some people will argue, "well it is all we have".....thats a cop out, make it better, make it real and representative....stats Canada can do it

LC

[H380]

Exactly right Lefty , that's all we have is a poor excuse at best .. SRD's version of the online hunter suvet is a joke at best . 4 members of my family had mule deer tags last year , 2 bowhunters ,a draw tag , and a landowner .. Who got the suvey request on line to fill out ? One bowhunter , sounds like an accurate way to make a count .

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by albertadeer

Do you think no zones should go one draw???? If so, open your eyes....

Some zones desperately need more intense management....Saying they dont is ignorance to the issue at hand.

Ignorance without facts....hmmm mm

If I told you your wife was cheating on you, would run to your lawyer and get divorce papers, or would you Attempt to figure out the truth first and make a rational, educated decision based on actual facts?



Don't panic, I have no idea if she is! It was just scenario!