getting firearms from the U.S!!

[1shotwade]

My father has dual citizenship and lives in arizona! I was wondering if he brought a rifle into canada can he sell it to me? He is coming up for november deer hunt and was thinking he might be able to save me some money!! I looked at how this works but it was clear as mud! Any Info would help!

[elkhunter11]

Not legal, unless the proper export and import paperwork is obtained. That includes permits from both Countries.

[1shotwade]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Not legal, unless the proper export and import paperwork is obtained. That includes permits from both Countries.

What do these permits cost? All i can find is companies to do this! Because he has dual citizenship can he transfer them to his PAL then sell it to me! We are not sure how this works !! he can legally own guns in both countries so we are trying to figure out the logistics!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 1shotwade

What do these permits cost? All i can find is companies to do this! Because he has dual citizenship can he transfer them to his PAL then sell it to me! We are not sure how this works !! he can legally own guns in both countries so we are trying to figure out the logistics!

See above for the required logistics. Your dad might be a dual citizen, but his guns aren't.

[1shotwade]

Originally Posted by chuck

See above for the required logistics. Your dad might be a dual citizen, but his guns aren't.

That is the question i am trying to get answered! he takes all his handguns to alaska every year and goes thru canada! We phoned the canadian gun registry and they sent plain registration forms! the question is has anybody gone thru this before! Is it possible to have guns registered in the U.S and canada at the same time!

[benamen]

with dual citizenship, you may leave and enter the U.S. with firearms without a lot of hassle. To permanently export a firearm from the U.S, export permits are required.

[Pathfinder76]

Like I said on another thread. People come asking for advice and take their own.

[222rem]

Call this No. 1-800-731-4000

[GregD]

I called the ODTC in Washington and spoke to Canada Customs this week about doing this. The Canadian side is easy for a ourchase. Customs told me:
* You need to register the weapon in your name before it gets to the border.
* If you do not register in advance ot the weapon arriving at the border, you have 40 days to get that done. If you get a greenhorn officer, the process may not be smooth...
* I was told it is preferable for you to be there to import it in person.
* Then, pay GST and away you go.

The US side is different. Breaking a law makes you and the seller eligible for 5-10 years in lock up. The person at the ODTC told me that:
* To export a rifle from the US to a Canadian buyer, the seller must first register with the ODTC ($2,250 US fee). To do this, the seller must be a US gun broker and a US citizen. For each rifle exported, there is a permit required ($250 US per permit - one per rifle). Apparently, it is a simple process to get these permits/licenses. Just costly.
* Shotguns do not require this process by the ODTC.
* A non-resident alien may not purchase a rifle from a dealer or US citizen. So, you cannot get a friend to purchase from an FFL and then purchase from them. Go to jail, collect orange outfit etc. I guess. I would not take a chance.

I did not inquire about handguns. Seems the process is designed to control the export of F4's.

This is what I was told. The number I called was (202) 663-2714.

Greg

Or you could use a Canadian importer and pay around $200.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by GregD

I The person at the ODTC told me that:
* To export a rifle from the US to a Canadian buyer, the seller must first register with the ODTC ($2,250 US fee). To do this, the seller must be a US gun broker and a US citizen. For each rifle exported, there is a permit required ($250 US per permit - one per rifle).

Greg

[QUOTE=sheephunter;862418]Or you could use a Canadian importer and pay around $200.[/QUOTE]

I don't get the big difference in price between the two? Don't make sense that if a US Citizen wants to do it it will cost them 10x as much as if a Canadian trys to do it?

OP
Id stop askin for advice here and call the numbers and find out for yourself. Thats the only way you can Cover your arse!

Simply put I'm a dual citizen live in the US. I have taken my guns cross the border and left them in Canada for over a year before bringing them back down. During that year no one asked me if I had left any up there and I crossed the border numerous times as most my immediate family live in Alberta.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by 1shotwade

My father has dual citizenship and lives in arizona! I was wondering if he brought a rifle into canada can he sell it to me? He is coming up for november deer hunt and was thinking he might be able to save me some money!! I looked at how this works but it was clear as mud! Any Info would help!

Clay Smiley from Prophet River in Lloydminster does a far bit of this. Give him a shout.

[ShawnM]

Honestly they don't leave any wiggle room for technicalities or grey areas. They make the rules as specific as they have to be and apply them to everyone regardless of dual citizenship etc.

What burns my ass is the "components" being restricted... I could understand receivers, ammunition, bolts, etc but scopes??? They're optics and the firearm will function as a firearm without them. So why the restriction on exporting them? Canadian customs doesn't give a damn about them so why does the US?

[Pudelpointer]

This advice is worth what you are paying.

Once the firearm is registered in the Canadian system, I do not believe that they give a rat's bum who it is transferred to. Since you father can legally bring the firearms to Canada (if he registers them with the CFC) once here, he should be able to initiate a transfer to you. You complete the transfer.

The only other caution would be to call the CBSA and say that you bought a few items (or received as a gift - sound's like this is the case here) from a relative who was visiting you, and ask if they want the GST on the value. If so, tell them the value and send them a cheque.

Done.

Now, on the US side, that is a whole other story. Ask your dad this: does the US government KNOW that he has these firearms? If the answer is no, then there is no problem. If the answer is yes, well then he needs to explain what happened to them, and then you have a problem. In this scenario, your dad is the one taking the risk. However, AFAIK long rifles are not registered or tracked in any way, except for interstate sales and transfers (FFL requirements).

Permission is needed to export from the US, not import into Canada (we just want that GST).

AFAIK, the CBSA does not walk a note over to the US Customs with a list of the firearms you brought in. Neither does the CFC send the US gov a list of US citizens with valid PALs; they probably confirm information on an individual if asked, but you would need to be doing something else sketchy for them to bother.

[32-40win]

You can also read articles on this subject, til you are blue in the face, in the legalese section on Cdn Gunnutz.
The main point is, the exporter of the weapon has to have an export permit for it, and most US gunshops do not have one, and will not acquire one.
Technically, if you bring it up here and leave it here and have someone else register it up here, without acquiring the export permit from the US, you just committed a felony in the US, you and your dad could be charged with gun smuggling, in the US.
It isn't worth it.

[GregD]

I agree the Canadian side seems less concerned about the US side of affairs - at least based on my conversations with Canada Customs this week. To confirm the US regulations, call the ODTC at (202) 663-2714 and speak to them as I did this week. They are very helpful. At the end of the day, if you wish to enter or live in the US you should consider the US laws and the price of breaking them. I don't think the risk is worth it, but your risk tolerance to 5-10 years in jail may be different

I am trying to find a US gun broker who is registered with the ODTC to see if I can have a rifle exported legally, but no luck so far. Anyone know of a registered exporter?

Greg

[Mountain Guy]

Can't your dad bring a gun up and leave it here for his own use in the future?
Not sure what US law he would be breaking with that senario, but
I'm sure there's something about that they wouldn't like south of the border.

[wwbirds]

Not sure if it has changed but the gift limit many years ago was $60. so CBSA certainly will not accept the fact the firearms were gifted. It is a difficult situation since there is no sale to utilize a transaction value which is the primary method of valuation. there are many other ways to value when transaction value is not possible but I doubt any will apply except the last which is appraisal value so you would be required to pay full GST on realistic apprased value. Depending on where they were made they could be subject to duty. I brought in many Brownings years ago and despite an american company being made in Belgium they were subject to some pretty significant duty amounts.
I also agree the potential for retribution by US authorities for failing to obtain a permit could have serious consequences and not worth the risk IMHO.

Originally Posted by GregD

I agree the Canadian side seems less concerned about the US side of affairs - at least based on my conversations with Canada Customs this week. To confirm the US regulations, call the ODTC at (202) 663-2714 and speak to them as I did this week. They are very helpful. At the end of the day, if you wish to enter or live in the US you should consider the US laws and the price of breaking them. I don't think the risk is worth it, but your risk tolerance to 5-10 years in jail may be different

I am trying to find a US gun broker who is registered with the ODTC to see if I can have a rifle exported legally, but no luck so far. Anyone know of a registered exporter?

Greg

As 209x50 said

Clay Smiley from Prophet River in Lloydminster does a far bit of this. Give him a shout.

Best advice you've got so far.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

What burns my ass is the "components" being restricted... I could understand receivers, ammunition, bolts, etc but scopes??? They're optics and the firearm will function as a firearm without them. So why the restriction on exporting them? Canadian customs doesn't give a damn about them so why does the US?

US Gov don't give a damn about pepper spray. Why does the Canadian gov? US Gov don't give a damn about tasers. Why does the Canadian Gov? US Gov don't give a damn if people have handguns, Why does the Canadian gov? I could go on for ever. It all comes down to the fact that the US is an entirely different country, with different rules. They can do whatever the hell they want and it doesn't matter if you don't like it because your not from there. Thats like me saying I don't like how they don't regulate pot in Amsterdam why do they in Canada? If you don't like it its simple, Don't go there.

[RedFisher]

wow great thread... im down in california right now trying to figure out the same thing.... guns are soo cheap down here its crazy.... but the whole process seems like a huge hassle....

[huntingd]

great call on prophet rivers. I just bought a citori down here in texas while playing hockey and will be phoning them tommorrow to get it home.