Carrying a Handgun - Page 2

Jerry D · #31 10-01-2009, 06:33 AM

No wondering the RCMP is hiring - they need MORE people with some sense in their heads!

1968dart · #32 10-01-2009, 08:59 AM

I was trying to find the penalty for carry of a restricted weapon in a protection situation. I looked up and down the firearms act and found areas that talked about carry in dangerous areas like bear or cougar for defense. There wasn't a law saying you could carry but in a situation like that no penalty would be given. If your down packing a 9mm outside 7 11 your going to get the book thrown at you but out checking cattle in cougar country the RCMP might look the other way!

The man showing you the weapon and making implications is a another matter.
Permission to carry permit is only for:
security job's
dangerous reserch jobs
registered tappers
law enforcement

And should be for anyone with a Restricted weapons license and a valid Bow hunting license as well. Or when out back country hiking, fishing.

Okotokian · #33 10-01-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstermulie

He lives on the south half of the section, we have permission on the NE 1/4, I assume he just doesn't want us hunting there because he informed us that he feeds the deer oats every day and has salt blocks put out for them ( i assume on his property because I never did see any on the 1/4 that we hunt) I also assume that he was trying to scare us off so we wouldn't shoot the deer, and I also assume that he thought we'd just let it go

I think you are chasing the wrong dog here. I don't think the biggest issue is that the guy had a handgun. I think the issue is that he basically threatened you with it and that would be illegal. If someone tells you to move off and purposely opens his coat to reveal a gun that's clearly a threat to your life. I'd push the cops on that one.

rugatika · #34 10-01-2009, 08:39 PM

I can't believe the RCMP didn't call out the SWAT team on this guy!! Threaten someone with a handgun on someone elses property and they do nothing, but LEGALLY carry a rifle in your front seat and they hassle you. I am somewhat perplexed to say the least.

BowhuntAB · #35 10-02-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

I can't believe the RCMP didn't call out the SWAT team on this guy!! Threaten someone with a handgun on someone elses property and they do nothing, but LEGALLY carry a rifle in your front seat and they hassle you. I am somewhat perplexed to say the least.

Something doesnt add up....

BowhuntAB · #36 10-02-2009, 10:03 AM

Monstermulie....

Whats the latest on this? I think we are all curious!

monstermulie · #37 10-02-2009, 10:09 AM

well....... it turns out that the officer isn't in for the rest of the week, so.... waiting on the officer to get back and return a phone call. left 3 messages

chr0magnum · #38 10-04-2009, 11:28 PM

From the Canadian Criminal Code

PART VIII : OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON AND REPUTATION
Section: Assaults

Uttering threats

264.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who, in any manner, knowingly utters, conveys or causes any person to receive a threat

(a) to cause death or bodily harm to any person;

(b) to burn, destroy or damage real or personal property; or

(c) to kill, poison or injure an animal or bird that is the property of any person.

Punishment

(2) Every one who commits an offence under paragraph (1)(a) is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

Your guy knowingly conveyed and caused you to receive a threat to cause you death or bodily harm. Because the threat involved a concealed restricted firearm (handgun) it would probably be processed as indictable. A threat to cause death or bodily harm is an assault, so the following applies (from the same section):

Assault with a weapon or causing bodily harm

267. Every one who, in committing an assault,

(a) carries, uses or threatens to use a weapon or an imitation thereof, or

(b) causes bodily harm to the complainant,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years or an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 267; 1994, c. 44, s. 17.

This law covers all weapons including sticks and knives, even imitation weapons, so the use of a concealed restricted firearm would be taken very seriously in court.

As for carrying a concealed weapon (which again includes all weapons the most serious of which would be a restricted or prohibited firearm)

Carrying concealed weapon

90. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 90; 1991, c. 28, s. 6, c. 40, ss. 4, 35; 1994, c. 44, s. 6; 1995, c. 39, s. 139.

Its curious the RCMP member decided not to persue the complaint (apparenly has a different version of the criminal code). I would guess there is enough to convince a court of an indictable conviction. Crown would probably go for it anyway.

If the RCMP wont press charges but you believe you have a case you can present it to crown councel yourself. They will interview you and decide weather charges should be pressed, and may instruct the officer to re investigate weather a crime has been committed.

Hope this helps!

flynfirefighter · #39 01-17-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstermulie

Thanks for your help. The officer was getting quite mad when I was informing them that with out a permit that general public is not allowed to carry a handgun and the officer informed me that I should print off a copy of the law and produce it to her and the matter will be disgussed further from there. The officer also informed me that he/she had 7 yrs of service under he/she belt and knows the law quite will. I feel that he/she should know the law a little better than he/she does if he/she is getting paid to enforce it!!

Hello everyone, this is my first time here and first time posting..
I have read all I could find on this site relating to the carry of a hand gun..
One item has been missed.. "antique hand guns" .. And to shorten thigs up, antique hand guns are not considered a firearm... and thus, you do not need a license to own or carry one. The only laws that pertain to an "antique hand gun" is that of transportation and storage.. in that they must be handled the same as restricted... END OF STORY..!!!
Sounds simple.. When I realized that the hand gun that I had passed down from my grandfather was now classified as an antique I was amazed not only to find out how little regualtions applied to this hand gun.. but the ignorance of law officials on the laws pertaining to the same....(not directly their fault)
My cop friend was totally blown away when he heard that...! He believed me.. but when he shared this info with his collegues one (or more) challenged this and did their own research.. and none could find anything to hte contrary..!
So how did I come privy to this info.. When my hand gun was being verified, the contact person at Canada Firearms just happened to be the proud owner of an antique hand gun almost exactly the same as mine.. the only difference.. his is 2 years newer.. And he told me and I quote... " You can transport your antique hand gun to the heart of your city, remove it from it's secure box, remove the trigger lock, load it and holster it and walk down the sidewalk, TOTALLY LEGAL..!! Now, I wouldn't do it, because the police don't know the laws as well as they may think, so you will most likely be approached at gun point, arrested, charged and subsequently released, gun still held until your court date by which time your lawer should have it straightened out and have the charges dropped and gun returned to your posession.... But, is carying that gun worth the trouble..?"..
Well, to let you know, I have no intensions of carring in a public place...
But, when I'm in the wilderness hunting, I carry my antique hand gun in the open, holstered and loaded on my hip.... And I carry a transcript of the laws from both the "criminal code" and the "firearms act" (both the same law...) covering the above mentioned gun on me along with the certificate to prove it is in fact an Antique...!! Remember, no registration with this gun, only a certificate...!!
To carry this on one step further, I was advised by my gun club that I could obtain a ATC for my flying trips.. (as I am a pilot and regulary fly into the north over un-inhabited areas..) similar to that of trappers. It is not considered feasable to readily carry a long gun for protection, so a holstered hand gun of large calibre may be carried if an ATC is acquired. So, now common sence kicks in here... the gun has to be accessable while I'm flying, but not necessarily loaded (safetly reasons) but in the event of a crash or forced landing a magasine or speed loader must be readily available. Which is how I will treat this , if and when I obtain a ATC..
I'll keep you advised if I persue the ATC or if I have problems carring my antique.
Happy hunting & shooting...!

Flynfirefighter...

flynfirefighter · #40 01-17-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chr0magnum

From the Canadian Criminal Code

PART VIII : OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON AND REPUTATION
Section: Assaults

Uttering threats

264.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who, in any manner, knowingly utters, conveys or causes any person to receive a threat

(a) to cause death or bodily harm to any person;

(b) to burn, destroy or damage real or personal property; or

(c) to kill, poison or injure an animal or bird that is the property of any person.

(2) Every one who commits an offence under paragraph (1)(a) is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

Your guy knowingly conveyed and caused you to receive a threat to cause you death or bodily harm. Because the threat involved a concealed restricted firearm (handgun) it would probably be processed as indictable. A threat to cause death or bodily harm is an assault, so the following applies (from the same section):

Assault with a weapon or causing bodily harm

267. Every one who, in committing an assault,

(a) carries, uses or threatens to use a weapon or an imitation thereof, or

(b) causes bodily harm to the complainant,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years or an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 267; 1994, c. 44, s. 17.

This law covers all weapons including sticks and knives, even imitation weapons, so the use of a concealed restricted firearm would be taken very seriously in court.

As for carrying a concealed weapon (which again includes all weapons the most serious of which would be a restricted or prohibited firearm)

Carrying concealed weapon

90. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 90; 1991, c. 28, s. 6, c. 40, ss. 4, 35; 1994, c. 44, s. 6; 1995, c. 39, s. 139.

Its curious the RCMP member decided not to persue the complaint (apparenly has a different version of the criminal code). I would guess there is enough to convince a court of an indictable conviction. Crown would probably go for it anyway.

If the RCMP wont press charges but you believe you have a case you can present it to crown councel yourself. They will interview you and decide weather charges should be pressed, and may instruct the officer to re investigate weather a crime has been committed.

Hope this helps!

I'm quite sure that unless that person actually either threatened you verbally or physically ie: pointed the gun at you, I'm almost posotive a good lawyer will get him off... I'm not saying that his intent wasn't to threaten you.. but his intent is not evidence you can display... He may just claim that he felt threatened as there were more of you than him, and you all were baring long guns, so his display was to let you know he was armed.. which is not a threat.!
A good example is when a "black belt" holder advises you before a possible altercation that he is a "black belt".. is that a threat..? No, he is obligated to tell you that as he has an unfair advantage. So his display just evened the score... Hey, this is NOT my opinion.. I am very good at playing the "devils advocate" in situations like this... this is what a good lawyer will do..!!!
But I guess it comes down to weather or not he has a right to carry under those circumstances you stated..!! That is the only avenue that I think the Crown will prosecute him on..!!
But hey, if you truely believe that was his intent and it was a threat, then don't give up your fight...

Flynfirefighter....

AB RANGER 007 · #41 01-17-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flynfirefighter

Hello everyone, this is my first time here and first time posting..
I have read all I could find on this site relating to the carry of a hand gun..
One item has been missed.. "antique hand guns" .. And to shorten thigs up, antique hand guns are not considered a firearm... and thus, you do not need a license to own or carry one. The only laws that pertain to an "antique hand gun" is that of transportation and storage.. in that they must be handled the same as restricted... END OF STORY..!!!
Sounds simple.. When I realized that the hand gun that I had passed down from my grandfather was now classified as an antique I was amazed not only to find out how little regualtions applied to this hand gun.. but the ignorance of law officials on the laws pertaining to the same....(not directly their fault)
My cop friend was totally blown away when he heard that...! He believed me.. but when he shared this info with his collegues one (or more) challenged this and did their own research.. and none could find anything to hte contrary..!
So how did I come privy to this info.. When my hand gun was being verified, the contact person at Canada Firearms just happened to be the proud owner of an antique hand gun almost exactly the same as mine.. the only difference.. his is 2 years newer.. And he told me and I quote... " You can transport your antique hand gun to the heart of your city, remove it from it's secure box, remove the trigger lock, load it and holster it and walk down the sidewalk, TOTALLY LEGAL..!! Now, I wouldn't do it, because the police don't know the laws as well as they may think, so you will most likely be approached at gun point, arrested, charged and subsequently released, gun still held until your court date by which time your lawer should have it straightened out and have the charges dropped and gun returned to your posession.... But, is carying that gun worth the trouble..?"..
Well, to let you know, I have no intensions of carring in a public place...
But, when I'm in the wilderness hunting, I carry my antique hand gun in the open, holstered and loaded on my hip.... And I carry a transcript of the laws from both the "criminal code" and the "firearms act" (both the same law...) covering the above mentioned gun on me along with the certificate to prove it is in fact an Antique...!! Remember, no registration with this gun, only a certificate...!!
To carry this on one step further, I was advised by my gun club that I could obtain a ATC for my flying trips.. (as I am a pilot and regulary fly into the north over un-inhabited areas..) similar to that of trappers. It is not considered feasable to readily carry a long gun for protection, so a holstered hand gun of large calibre may be carried if an ATC is acquired. So, now common sence kicks in here... the gun has to be accessable while I'm flying, but not necessarily loaded (safetly reasons) but in the event of a crash or forced landing a magasine or speed loader must be readily available. Which is how I will treat this , if and when I obtain a ATC..
I'll keep you advised if I persue the ATC or if I have problems carring my antique.
Happy hunting & shooting...!

Flynfirefighter...

Hi F f f, would you care to tell us what the Make and Model this Antique Hand Gun and the Cal is please. I have a 32 cal revover that is a pinfire, and since there is "not any ammo available" on thet market to-day, it now has a Antique Handgun classification, and it is de-regisered.

Bruce.

catnthehat · #42 01-17-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstermulie

no because they have a ATC (authorization to carry), unless you have that you are unable to carry a handgun.

why i'm asking is:

I was out hunting on a piece of property with my hunting partner that we had permission on, when we ran into an individual who DID NOT own the land we were on, and he told us that it was in our best interest to get off the land immediatly, then he proceded to pull his jacket aside revieling a hand gun and the local RCMP believe that he has broken no laws once so ever, and are willing to do nothing.

Some wanker tells me to move along when I am in the bush and opens his jacket to show me a hand gun??!!
Things would not turn out well, I'm sure, the last idjit that pointed a gun at me was 30 years ago and he ate the butt end of it.
Cat

bwcweld · #43 01-17-2011, 06:37 PM

if there was two of you and one of him......why did you let him pull that garbage?

silver · #44 01-17-2011, 07:06 PM

Tell your friendly neighbour hood rcmp constable to check section 20 of the fire arms act. This allows you a permit for work or protection of life. This over rides section 17, which says a restricted fire arm may only be possessed at a dwelling place as recorded in the cf registry, or at a place authorized by the chief fire arms officer. Hope this helps.

silver · #45 01-17-2011, 08:13 PM

Check section 17 of the fire arms act.I believe it states your restricted fire arms may only be held at the residence listed with the govt. Section 20 speaks of a permit that may be issued to carry for work or personal safety.

flynfirefighter · #46 01-17-2011, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB RANGER 007

Hi F f f, would you care to tell us what the Make and Model this Antique Hand Gun and the Cal is please. I have a 32 cal revover that is a pinfire, and since there is "not any ammo available" on thet market to-day, it now has a Antique Handgun classification, and it is de-regisered.

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,
I have an 1889 Webley .476 calibre revlover.
I fire .476 .455 and can fire .45 long colt (with modified brass)
I buy up every .455 I can find.. their reasonably affordable.. plus I buy .476 when it's in good condition and nott ridiculiously priced.. No problem so far getting ammo.. but I intend to reload eventually..
I fire this gun often and it is in GREAT condition... It was my grandfathers service revlover when he was a mounted policeman..

Flynfirefighter..

AB RANGER 007 · #47 01-18-2011, 10:43 AM

F f f, thank for your reply

Bruce.

wolf308 · #48 01-19-2011, 06:22 AM

maybe just leave it be and dont go around that guy again, do what he says instead of getting cops involved. it aint worth it if he seems ready to pop you cowboy style, if hes got the balls to do that to you and defy the law just let him and stand clear. kinda sorta just putting my thoughs out there, also you reported it , thats all you can do,

Lonnie · #49 01-20-2011, 02:53 PM

suonds to me like this guy is another cop or retired cop and that would explain the rcmps reluctance to do any thing.as some of retired cops have permits to carry consealed for life for working under cover against orginized crime.

moosemad · #50 01-21-2011, 09:29 AM

So what conditions apply to make a pistol an antique?

Lomondk · #51 01-21-2011, 05:24 PM

to know more antiques go to the CGN board they have an antique forum but here are the basics

HANDGUNS

6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.