.300 win mag vs .300 wsm

[canadianbigbuck]

Just doing some research and wondering if any of you guys could help me out. I'm looking to get a good long range performer that has good knock down power for elk/moose yet not too heavy for deer also. I have narrowed it down to the .300 win mag or .300 wsm.
I was leaning more towards the .300 wsm, but after going through the ballistics charts, the .300 win mag is pretty much the same.

What advantages does the .300 wsm have over the .300 win mag other than a shorter cartridge?

I will be using the rifle mainly for longer range hunting (from ground blinds in large fields)
The .300 rum is a real impressive round, but not impressed with the cost of ammo for them(i don't reload), so that one is out.
Any help or insite would be appreciated.
Thanks

[jaylow?]

the 300wsm was designed to do what the 300 win mag does, but in a short action package. the ammo for the 300winny is cheaper ,i have a 300 wsm and dont reload either. i think im paying something like $64 a box. where you could by 300win for around $28 or something a box

[elkhunter11]

Don't get hung up on the idea of "knockdown" power for moose and elk,because neither the 300win mag or 300wsm is going to physically knock over an elk or a moose.Since you don't reload,I would go for a 7mmremmag or a 300winmag for your application.

[wwbirds]

I can't see any advantage except more expensive ammo for the ones you have narrowed it down to. 30-.06 should do everything and ammo is often more readily available and cheaper. then again I am biased to 30-06 and avoid the expense of mags.

[Mountain Guy]

Of the 2 I'd say go short.
Less recoil, slightly lighter gun, more efficient powder burn.
The short is slightly inferior ballistically, 100-200fps , but your burning more powder to get that advantage. That moose or elk won't know the difference.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by jaylow?

the 300wsm was designed to do what the 300 win mag does, but in a short action package. the ammo for the 300winny is cheaper ,i have a 300 wsm and dont reload either. i think im paying something like $64 a box. where you could by 300win for around $28 or something a box

That much diff?
LAst time I bought factory ammo they were closer than that. Hasn't been in a couple years mind you.
$64 seems hight to me.

[1shotwade]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Don't get hung up on the idea of "knockdown" power for moose and elk,because neither the 300win mag or 300wsm is going to physically knock over an elk or a moose.Since you don't reload,I would go for a 7mmremmag or a 300winmag for your application.

Not too sure on that I own both and only shoot factory ammo! I switched to the wsm 3 years ago and I back flipped a cow moose and a twisted a 350 class bull elk into pretzel! Both were at 200 yards plus!! But I like high neck spine shots and I have done this with a 30/30! Not at 200 but saying a 300 will not drop a 800 pound animal in it's tracks is like saying a 22. will not kill a gopher!!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by 1shotwade

Not too sure on that I own both and only shoot factory ammo! I switched to the wsm 3 years ago and I back flipped a cow moose and a twisted a 350 class bull elk into pretzel! Both were at 200 yards plus!! But I like high neck spine shots and I have done this with a 30/30! Not at 200 but saying a 300 will not drop a 800 pound animal in it's tracks is like saying a 22. will not kill a gopher!!

Here we go....

[1shotwade]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Here we go....

Gloves are on!! I truly hate broad statements that lead too into arguements but that statement is very vague! If I am wrong in saying this, somebody should be able to prove me wrong!!

[jaylow?]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

That much diff?
LAst time I bought factory ammo they were closer than that. Hasn't been in a couple years mind you.
$64 seems hight to me.

thats premium , federals. not a huge selection availble at most places. but like i said and the fact is a fact , the 300 wsm is built to be a 300winmag in a short action. they shot to be within 10% i believe. and they did that. if my memory serves me right the only wsm that has even a slight advantage over its "parent" cartridge is the .270wsm. but correct me if im wrong boys.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by jaylow?

thats premium , federals. not a huge selection availble at most places. but like i said and the fact is a fact , the 300 wsm is built to be a 300winmag in a short action. they shot to be within 10% i believe. and they did that. if my memory serves me right the only wsm that has even a slight advantage over its "parent" cartridge is the .270wsm. but correct me if im wrong boys.

Yup, the 270WSM is about the best of all of them as far as straight ahead velocity gains go.
The WSM can be had in a TAD shorter action however.....
Cat

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by jaylow?

thats premium , federals. not a huge selection availble at most places. but like i said and the fact is a fact , the 300 wsm is built to be a 300winmag in a short action. they shot to be within 10% i believe. and they did that. if my memory serves me right the only wsm that has even a slight advantage over its "parent" cartridge is the .270wsm. but correct me if im wrong boys.

I'd agree with that.
But to me the wsm is superior in that, give or take, you use 20% less powder for only about 5% less performance.
Basically,ballistically the same but do the math....and add a short action into the equation and IMHO you have a clear winner in the WSM

[canadianbigbuck]

Okay, thanks for the info. Researching .300winmag and.300wsm the ammo isn't too much different in price, obviously wsm is more.

Now, what can someone tell me about the .300 RUM. What do they do to the cartridge to make it perform so well? I never have physically seen the cartridge.

[elkhunter11]

Not at 200 but saying a 300 will not drop a 800 pound animal in it's tracks is like saying a 22. will not kill a gopher!!

I never posted that a 300 magnum will not kill an 800lb animal in it's tracks,I posted that a bullet out of a 300 magnum isn't likely going to physically knock over an elk or a moose.

Now, what can someone tell me about the .300 RUM. What do they do to the cartridge to make it perform so well? I never have physically seen the cartridge.

I have owned two 300RUM rifles,and have taken nine elk and two moose with them.If you are willing to spend the time learning the trajectory and wind drift of the load,and are willing to practice regularly to maintain your longer range shooting skills,and you own a laser rangefinder,the 300RUM is a very effective cartridge for shots on elk and moose at over 400 yards.If you don't reload,I wouldn't bother with the 300RUM,if you are at all recoil shy,I wouldn't recommend the 300RUM,and if you are the box or two of ammunition per year shooter,you won't likely gain anything over the 300winmag.

[BallCoeff.435]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

[...]
Less recoil, slightly lighter gun, [...].
The short is slightly inferior ballistically, 100-200fps , [...]

There ya go. Lower ballistics are built in.

With a winmag you could soft-load ammo to those lower velocities, or if you want, to higher ones. Like the difference between a 458 Winchester and 458 Lott, or between 44 special and 44 magnum. You can load to lower velocities & recoil if you want, or go full-house loads.

Recoil ('impulse') BTW, has to do with rifle mass, mass of the bullet, acceleration curve of the bullet, and muzzle velocity. Not cartridge size and efficiency.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by BallCoeff.435

There ya go. Lower ballistics are built in.

With a winmag you could soft-load ammo to those lower velocities, or if you want, to higher ones. Like the difference between a 458 Winchester and 458 Lott, or between 44 special and 44 magnum. You can load to lower velocities & recoil if you want, or go full-house loads.

Recoil ('impulse') BTW, has to do with rifle mass, mass of the bullet, acceleration curve of the bullet, and muzzle velocity. Not cartridge size and efficiency.

WSM with 10gr's less powder and only 100fps less, basically, too me translates to being ballistically the same with less recoil. That of course is with a gun of similar mass, mass of bullet and acceleration curve.
Unless of course you really feel that 100fps makes the longer cousin superior.

[elkhunter11]

WSM with 10gr's less powder and only 100fps less, basically, too me translates to being ballistically the same with less recoil. That of course is with a gun of similar mass, mass of bullet and acceleration curve.
Unless of course you really feel that 100fps makes the longer cousin superior.

Of course you could say basically the same thing when comparing the 300WSM to the 30-06AI.Six or seven grains less powder,and about 100fps less,while developing less recoil.

[BallCoeff.435]

If you kept decreasing powder charge maybe you could get down to negative recoil and kill the animal that way...

[elkhunter11]

If you kept decreasing powder charge maybe you could get down to negative recoil and kill the animal that way...

Exactly,using the only 100fps less argument,could take you from the 300winmag to the 300wsm,to the 30-06AI,to the 30-06,to the 308win,etc,etc,etc.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Of course you could say basically the same thing when comparing the 300WSM to the 30-06AI.Six or seven grains less powder,and about 100fps less,while developing less recoil.

OK...... don't recall the 06AI being one of his choices though

[mr.pike]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;781281]I never posted that a 300 magnum will not kill an 800lb animal in it's tracks,I posted that a bullet out of a 300 magnum isn't likely going to physically knock over an elk or moose

My 300 wsm will physically knock over a coyote! I bought one a few years ago after using my brothers, a buddy of mine has a 300winmag and his gun is 2"+ longer than mine and heavier. I love my wsm and shoot it all the time! It is probably one of my favorites. A friend has a 270 wsm loves his too, but is thinking maybe he should have got the 300 as they are more popular, and common. If you do a lot of walking cutting a few inches and shaving a few ounces off your gun can make a HUGE difference!! If you hunt from a blind or shack and target shoot then I don't think either gun will disappoint you.

P.s I do use this gun for coyotes, the trajectory with 150gr's are about the same as 22-250, 14 and counting with this gun in 2010 and hope to get a few more tomorrow. I know this is overkill but, it also makes me sick to my stomach when people talk about shooting coyotes with their 17 hmr's further than 40 yards. Also where I hunt coyotes 75% are not good enough for skinning before I shoot them!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Of course you could say basically the same thing when comparing the 300WSM to the 30-06AI.Six or seven grains less powder,and about 100fps less,while developing less recoil.

Not being a reloader also..
Think he can pick up some 06AI ammo at Walmart ??

[elkhunter11]

My 300 wsm will physically knock over a coyote!

Are you comparing a 40lb coyote to an 800lb elk,or a 1200lb moose?

OK...... don't recall the 06AI being one of his choices though

Using your line of reasoning,we can just drop another 100fps,and carry on to the 30-06,which given that he doesn't sound overly experienced with a lot of different cartridges,and doesn't reload,might be a better choice for him anyways.

Not being a reloader also..
Think he can pick up some 06AI ammo at Walmart ??

He also mentioned the 300RUM,but I haven't seen 300RUM factory loads at the local Walmart either.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you comparing a 40lb coyote to an 800lb elk,or a 1200lb moose?



Using your line of reasoning,we can just drop another 100fps,and carry on to the 30-06,which given that he doesn't sound overly experienced,might be a better choice for him anyways.



He also mentioned the 300RUM,but I haven't seen 300RUM factory loads at the local Walmart either.

Sure he drop down to the 30-06.......and from there maybe down to a 280...then from there down to a 270.....
How far should I go sir ?

[elkhunter11]

Sure he drop down to the 30-06.......and from there maybe down to a 280...then from there down to a 270.....

I never suggested changing calibers.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I never suggested changing calibers.

Ahhhh...he never suggested anything other than the 2 300's in his OP ?

[elkhunter11]

Ahhhh...he never suggested anything other than the 2 300's in his OP ?

Yet he did ask for more info about the 300RUM after initially ruling it out.

Now, what can someone tell me about the .300 RUM. What do they do to the cartridge to make it perform so well? I never have physically seen the cartridge.

Perhaps he is still considering other options,although I do hope that he doesn't decide on the 300RUM.

[Huntsman]

If you reload: 300WSM
If you don't reload: 300 Win Mag
The animal won't know any difference either way

[mr.pike]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;781435]Are you comparing a 40lb coyote to an 800lb elk,or a 1200lb moose?



No, I know it won't " knock down" an elk,moose or deer.
Are YOU comparing a 800 lb elk, or a 1200 lb moose to a 40 lb coyote?
300 wsm does have enough mustard to "knock down" a coyote, it is also very good deer medicine!!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Are you comparing a 40lb coyote to an 800lb elk,or a 1200lb moose?



Using your line of reasoning,we can just drop another 100fps,and carry on to the 30-06,which given that he doesn't sound overly experienced with a lot of different cartridges,and doesn't reload,might be a better choice for him anyways.



He also mentioned the 300RUM,but I haven't seen 300RUM factory loads at the local Walmart either.

Elk, he asked a very simple question in his OP.
To which I gave a pretty simple answer about the ''advantages a wsm has over the 300win''
And it sure didn't take long to get into the AI's and off topic.
I guess we can get right into it and talk custom built wildcats, but I don't think ( and correct me if I'm wrong BigBuck ) that was the gist of this thread.
Perhaps giving some of your wisdom that pertains to his question would be better than to try and pick apart my logic.

Or.... you and I can go back and forth and maybe we can trump the crossbow thread !!

Back to you....
Over....