How to maximize penetration on a shot

savagewsm · #1 10-01-2010, 04:53 PM

I would like to get your opinions on which of the following factors are most crucial to total penetration of an arrow in the chest of an animal. Lets assume for the sake of discussion that the shot broadside and not quartering.

1) arrow speed
2) type of broadhead
3) total arrow weight
4) Bow poundage

etc...

I know that the answer is a combination of all factors but I am just curious as to which top two make the most significant difference. Lets say a fellow draws at about 55-60 pounds pull and wants improve penetration without having to draw a heavier weight. Or is the best bang for the buck strengthening up and shooting 70 lbs ?

3Dshooter · #2 10-01-2010, 05:13 PM

Maybe you could add to the discussion, bow/ cam design... as all bows at the same poundage are not created equal, ie., IBO speed and resulting kinetic energy?

hunter10 · #3 10-01-2010, 05:16 PM

Like you said, it's a comination of all. But IMO the factors that affect penatration the most is DW, DL, and the total weight of the arrow (heavier the arrow, more penatration but less speed)

eric bell · #4 10-01-2010, 07:09 PM

I know you're talking penetration, but the most important factor to me is "the accuracy of the shot".

7 REM MAG · #5 10-01-2010, 07:36 PM

dont forget a good sharp broadhead

uraarchr · #6 10-01-2010, 08:24 PM

from everything i've read and what little i've seen i'd have to say that how straight(well tuned )the arrow is flying is the biggest factor.i think if it's flying tail over or up or down it wont penetrate as well as a perfecly tuned arrow.

Muskeg · #7 10-01-2010, 08:43 PM

Here is a link to Dr Ashby's Report. every bowhunter needs to read this.. this man has studied the hell out of this topic and killed alot of animals just for the study and to inform all of us regarding arrow lethality.
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/

savagewsm · #8 10-01-2010, 08:52 PM

Thank you that is an excellent resource.

pottymouth · #9 10-01-2010, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muskeg

Here is a link to Dr Ashby's Report. every bowhunter needs to read this.. this man has studied the hell out of this topic and killed alot of animals just for the study and to inform all of us regarding arrow lethality.
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/

X2

i was just looking for that!

savagewsm · #10 10-01-2010, 09:21 PM

FRom skimming the article one might summarize that a single blade well built broadhead plus a good total mass on the arrow is they best set up.

I wonder if that data is transferable to the two blade expandable broadheads ?

ishootbambi · #11 10-01-2010, 10:08 PM

my first thought was KY.....

ok really...shot placement is the single biggest factor. if you put it through the ribs, even a lowly arrow speed of 150 fps will zip through no sweat. however, with a less than perfect shot all of the things listed matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Dshooter

Maybe you could add to the discussion, bow/ cam design... as all bows at the same poundage are not created equal, ie., IBO speed and resulting kinetic energy?

IMO, of those listed, momentum, NOT KE is a bigger factor. if you arent brushed up on phsyics....look up the definitions of those words. KE is a largely useless number when it comes to archery.

catnthehat · #12 10-02-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

my first thought was KY.....

ok really...shot placement is the single biggest factor. if you put it through the ribs, even a lowly arrow speed of 150 fps will zip through no sweat. however, with a less than perfect shot all of the things listed matter. .

X2.
it's all a matter of using a balanced arrow, for sure, and a balanced arrow will get there accurately BETTER than something going real fast with with too much paradox.
After the shot hits accurately as ISBI just stated here , a sharp broadhead will get the job done and will be the biggest deciding factor, but with two arrows hitting the same spot, the arrow that runs straighter will penetrate best, even if it is slower.
Cat

eric bell · #13 10-02-2010, 12:02 PM

That's a good "point" to make.

Knotter · #14 10-05-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savagewsm

FRom skimming the article one might summarize that a single blade well built broadhead plus a good total mass on the arrow is they best set up.

I wonder if that data is transferable to the two blade expandable broadheads ?

Ashby did studies on expandables and his conclusions were pretty convincing - NO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHpV...ayer_embedded#!

...why every hunter should consider a cut on contact broadhead.

jim-bo · #15 10-05-2010, 03:59 PM

all the factors you mentioned are important in one way or another, however if it is purely penetration that you want, then consider more emphasis on arrow weight. I heavy arrow will have more momentum than its lighter counterpart, secondly the style of broadhead you choose will also affect penetration.

Hop onto ArcheryTalk.com and read some of what Ted Nugent has to say about the benefits of shooting real heavy arrows

Shaggy · #16 10-06-2010, 08:14 AM

My top 3

1) Shot placement- 90%
2) Arrow weight - 5%
3) Arrow point -5%

3Dshooter · #17 10-14-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

my first thought was KY.....

ok really...shot placement is the single biggest factor. if you put it through the ribs, even a lowly arrow speed of 150 fps will zip through no sweat. however, with a less than perfect shot all of the things listed matter.

IMO, of those listed, momentum, NOT KE is a bigger factor. if you arent brushed up on phsyics....look up the definitions of those words. KE is a largely useless number when it comes to archery.

Whoops,... missed this comment. I quoted KE as a factor because that's what the Archery manufacturers use, along with speed, as a selling factor to move their bows!! Couldn't agree more, momentum SHOULD be the selling feature and I'm a total proponent of momentum versus kinetic energy!!

Two arrows of equal kinetic energy, one achieved through speed and a light (mass) shaft. The other through a heavy (mass) shaft at a slower speed. With all other variables being equal; shaft diameter, broadhead, tuning, shot placement, etc... the heavier, slower arrow will, without question, out penetrate the faster arrow...

I shoot a heavy arrow and heavy draw weight for larger animals; elk, moose... my point was that there are lighter draw weight bows that will shoot the same arrow as a heavier DW bow at a faster speed. For example, a Bowtech 350 Destroyer, 70#'s, 30" DL, will shoot the same arrow as my 80#, 30" Bowtech Guardian at a higher velocity. Both KE and momentum are increased, due to bow design... even though you are drawing 10#'s less!!! Draw WEIGHT is not entirely indicative of resulting momentum of an arrow...

ishootbambi · #18 10-15-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Dshooter

Whoops,... missed this comment. I quoted KE as a factor because that's what the Archery manufacturers use, along with speed, as a selling factor to move their bows!! Couldn't agree more, momentum SHOULD be the selling feature and I'm a total proponent of momentum versus kinetic energy!!

Two arrows of equal kinetic energy, one achieved through speed and a light (mass) shaft. The other through a heavy (mass) shaft at a slower speed. With all other variables being equal; shaft diameter, broadhead, tuning, shot placement, etc... the heavier, slower arrow will, without question, out penetrate the faster arrow...

I shoot a heavy arrow and heavy draw weight for larger animals; elk, moose... my point was that there are lighter draw weight bows that will shoot the same arrow as a heavier DW bow at a faster speed. For example, a Bowtech 350 Destroyer, 70#'s, 30" DL, will shoot the same arrow as my 80#, 30" Bowtech Guardian at a higher velocity. Both KE and momentum are increased, due to bow design... even though you are drawing 10#'s less!!! Draw WEIGHT is not entirely indicative of resulting momentum of an arrow...

^^^ sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of things already. i think manufacturers list KE aimed at current nonbowhunters who are used to that term in rifle hunting. most guys who are up to snuff on archery already know and understand the difference, but to a newbie it likely sounds better and more powerful. good old marketing.