Long range rifle

[Frans]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I decide to take a longer range shot, it's not because I was too [...] smelly to get closer.

I don't know about you Sheep, but I'm usually pretty smelly by the time the rams come into sight!

[pockets]

Many people, myself included, can and do hunt game at close ranges. With a gun, bow, and muzzleloader. Purposely setting up for a long range hunt is a different story, and is just to add another dimension to hunting. I would only set up in an area where I know a long range shot will present itself, and wait for the animal. Not jump out of the truck, lean on the hood or go prone, do a quick range read, and let fly.

[elkhunter11]

Purposely setting up for a long range hunt is a different story, and is just to add another dimension to hunting. I would only set up in an area where I know a long range shot will present itself, and wait for the animal.

Some of us do make longer than normal shots without setting up specifically for a longer range shot.I often set up on the edges of fields where shots have varied from less than 50 yards,out to nearly 500 yards.In fact,it is common to see game at 1000 yards or more in these locations.

[North of 53]

Show me a post about long range hunting and I will show you fight that just has not started yet.
Having said that I would tell people don't worry so much about what other people shoot game at just make sure that you are comfortable with the range you are shooting game at.
As for caliber I like the 6.5 for long range deer, I have 6.5x55 improved and can run 140gr bullets at 3000 M/V if I want to. I also have a 300 RUM that I use on Elk at longer range. The truth is that deer are just not that hard to put down if you have close to 1000 f/lb of energy you should have enough to bring down a deer with a reasonably well placed shot.
The key on most long range shooting is the wind, having shot some 1000 yd F class I can tell you that if you can't read the wind don't take the shot. If you can't break 70 on a 15 shot string with at least 3 or 4 Vs you might want to rethink taking a 1000 yard shot at a deer. I have been working the butts when a wind change comes and see very good shooters move 10"s or more up wind when they missed the wind dropping, this was even more common than not reading a wind gust and moving 10 or 15 inches down wind.
As for the shooting the bigger guns, I just have not seen the ballistic advantage for them. The wind drift is not much less and depending on bullet B.C. it could be even more. If you are worried about how much drop or how flat a bullet shoots, don't be. All bullets will drop a lot at long rage and as long as you have a reasonable bullet 2 or 3 MOA difference is not what is going to make or break the shot as long as it does it consistently . Just be sure you have practiced enough to feel right about the shot you take.
If you are thinking of shooting long range at deer I can not tell enough as to how help full it would be for you to try a little F class shooting, it can be very humbling. Shooting at steel at a1000 yards is not like shooting paper. Steel only counts the hits paper counts the missed shots as well.

[cgrif]

I think 3006savage has a good point. The 6.5-284 norma is a great cartridge. With commercial rifles f/Savage and off the shelf 140gn cart's, I think it will get as close to a Budget LR rifle (If you consider $1K rifle +$1500 scope a "low budget") as possible. I suppose just to muddy the water more, you could consider the 7stw. Sako chambers the cal, and all sorts of Manufactures provide loaded ammo. This is definitely out of the "Budget Rifle" catagory though. The 308 is a wonderful cartridge, but I question how much punch it will have at thousand yds on an animal. 500 yds maybe, but 1000? Good luck with it

[fitzy]

Not to sound preachy or get in a fight but I read all the way through this thread and have a couple things to say.

I am amazed that people can hit things at 1000 yards, I've seen guys shoot at over 700 and am well aware that I don't have the skill or equipment to pull off a shot like that. Although I see the joy in pushing yourself to the limit, I'm not sure its entirely ethical to shoot a deer at 1000 yards if you don't have to.

I have a situation for you cat.

Your hiding in a willow stand and call in a trophy buck, you shoot him at 100 yards and he drops with one shot from your 30-06.

You glass a hill side and spot a doe, range her at 900 yards, take in all the variables line up for the perfect shot and she turns a little at the last second and you shoot her in the guts. You do the right thing and try and track her but can't find the spot she was standing to locate the blood trail.

They are both hunting and neither is really doing anything wrong. But if you had to pick which is the better hunter I think the answer is obvious.

I don't want to get yelled at ( or typed at for that matter ) if your comfortable with shooting deer at 1000 yards then by all means do it, I just wonder how many animals were lost while you were learning how to shoot that far.

[fitzy]

I just want to reinforce the fact that I'm not sitting here judging people, just questioning the situation and adding a thought.
I have always wanted to be a long distance shooter, sadly I don't have to the time to practice, the equipment for it or most importantly the natural talent required.

No offence intended to anyone!

[Armorman]

Originally Posted by jaronp1

Hey i'm looking into a long range hunting rifle and i'm not sure what caliber to get, i would like to shoot very accurate at 500 yds and ok at 1000 yrds , does anyone out there have any info on some calibers good for these ranges , and i also like the rem 700 xcr long range but it is only chambered in a .308 and 300 are these good calibers?? also .223 but that's too small , anyway if anybody has some info on what i should buy it would be appreciated. thanks

First off you need to handload. Do you reload your own ammo? The reason I ask is because once you choose a rifle you need to taylor your ammo to the rifle to get the most accuracy and consistency from the rifle. This requires some extensive load development....something that is paramount for successfully shooting at distance. Secondly you need to practice...and practice...and practice. Being able to read the wind and learning basic marksmanship skills such as your natural point of aim, breathing, and trigger control are all very important at those distances. Start at 100 yards and work your way out. You'll be shooting pie plates at 800 and 1000 yards consistently before you know it.

As far as your kit goes you'll need a good spotting scope, a PDA or iPhone running Exbal (or equivalent ballistics program) for your elevation and windage adjustments, an anemometer such as a Kestrel, and of course....a capable rifle WITH a good scope. You can buy some pretty decent rifles such as a the Rem XCR LRT in 300 or a heavy barrel Savage....or....go all out and get a custom rifle in your choice of caliber. A good scope to consider is the Nightforce 5.5-22 or 8-32 NXS's....both with 56mm objectives. I like the Nightforce scopes because I have an moa reticle with moa adjustments for elevation and wind. Expect to pay 3000 and up for a decent rifle and scope. Some of us have invested double and close to triple that on a single rifle for long range shooting. Good luck to you.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Not to sound preachy or get in a fight but I read all the way through this thread and have a couple things to say.

I am amazed that people can hit things at 1000 yards, I've seen guys shoot at over 700 and am well aware that I don't have the skill or equipment to pull off a shot like that. Although I see the joy in pushing yourself to the limit, I'm not sure its entirely ethical to shoot a deer at 1000 yards if you don't have to.

I have a situation for you cat.

Your hiding in a willow stand and call in a trophy buck, you shoot him at 100 yards and he drops with one shot from your 30-06.

You glass a hill side and spot a doe, range her at 900 yards, take in all the variables line up for the perfect shot and she turns a little at the last second and you shoot her in the guts. You do the right thing and try and track her but can't find the spot she was standing to locate the blood trail.

They are both hunting and neither is really doing anything wrong. But if you had to pick which is the better hunter I think the answer is obvious.

I don't want to get yelled at ( or typed at for that matter ) if your comfortable with shooting deer at 1000 yards then by all means do it, I just wonder how many animals were lost while you were learning how to shoot that far.

It is far from a cut and dried scenario, because eit does not always happen that way
The last 500 yard+ shot I made on a deer, the same weekend I had a friend who gut shot a deer at 200 yards, and was not able to recover it.
he did find the spot where the bullet had hit a stick however.
Mine dropped where it was feeding.
It is not "who is the better hunter" in either situation, but who was fortunate enough to make a good shot.
Animals get lost at close range as well, a s long range.
Cat

[209x50]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Not to sound preachy or get in a fight but I read all the way through this thread and have a couple things to say.

I am amazed that people can hit things at 1000 yards, I've seen guys shoot at over 700 and am well aware that I don't have the skill or equipment to pull off a shot like that. Although I see the joy in pushing yourself to the limit, I'm not sure its entirely ethical to shoot a deer at 1000 yards if you don't have to.

I have a situation for you cat.

Your hiding in a willow stand and call in a trophy buck, you shoot him at 100 yards and he drops with one shot from your 30-06.

You glass a hill side and spot a doe, range her at 900 yards, take in all the variables line up for the perfect shot and she turns a little at the last second and you shoot her in the guts. You do the right thing and try and track her but can't find the spot she was standing to locate the blood trail.

They are both hunting and neither is really doing anything wrong. But if you had to pick which is the better hunter I think the answer is obvious.

I don't want to get yelled at ( or typed at for that matter ) if your comfortable with shooting deer at 1000 yards then by all means do it, I just wonder how many animals were lost while you were learning how to shoot that far.

Everything you've described happens alll the time at 200 yards and under. Just as some are not capable of over 200 yard shots, others aren't capable of sub 50 yard shots.

[fitzy]

True enough I supposed I know a couple guys who I wouldn't trust to hit a pie plate at 100 yards with any consistency. Although you have to admit your margin for error disappears out past 600 to 700 yards unless your very proficient.

Who is the better hunter was not really what I wanted to say cat.
I know people who take 500 yard shots at deer and make them, a really good friend of mine can freehand out past 300yards with his 7mm mag. There are lots of guys who can shoot long distance very well, I personally don't think its such a great idea but who knows, if I could make those shots I would probably be tempted to take them. I love shooting gophers way out there so i understand the draw of it.
I've seen way to many gut shot deer to justify an 800 yard shot on an animal you should be able to get within 300 yards of without even trying.

Not picking a fight just laying out my 2 cents. Its a pretty entertaining thread, although my friends and I have these discussions so often I could argue both sides all day long.

[North of 53]

If anyone thinks they are never going to make a bad shoot on a deer no mater what distance you shoot at, they are just kidding them self. No one tries to make a bad shot but things happen. All you people that say your not judging are definitely judging so why not stop the BS. I have found that the range people shoot at has little to do with how many deer they do or don't take cleanly. So if we are going to be judging I would have to say that judging from the posts of the people that say there not judging I would judge that most of them have fired fewer than 300 serious rounds at anything over 800 yards,paper, steel or deer. I would judge that most of them have no idea of just what it takes to hit a 10" bull at 800 yards and over. They probably have no idea of just how consistently some people can do it and how impossible it is to do consistently for others. So please judge your self not others. If you think you can shoot get on the line and see how you can score, you may find you are better than you thought or you may find that you are not even close. The main thing is that you will know what you are capable of and can then judge your self accordingly.

[fitzy]

I know just how well I can shoot! I freely admit that there is no possible way of me being able to hit anything out past 300 yards with any consistency. I know this because up until 2 years ago I never hunted with a scope, I have put through a lot of rounds practicing with it and still have trouble locating fast moving deer that are too close.
I know a lot of people who are good at long distance shooting, they practice a lot and really enjoy it. I've tried it with my buddies 30-06 sniper rifle I forget the make but I do know it ways 40 some pounds and has a barrel an inch and a half thick. I also know that the only way he can ring the gong out past 800 yards is when its very cold with no wind. He will also be the first to admit that he would never take a shot like that at a live animal...unless it was a coyote.
I am not here to tell you or anyone else that you can't shoot a deer at 1000 yards. If you practice and feel confident taking that shot then by all means blaze away. I suspect that shooting at that distance you would lose a lot of the adrenalin rush that comes with shooting at a trophy that breaks cover at 50 yards and is running full out making it easier to settle in to your shot.

So if you do shoot long distance can you answer a question for me, what is the drift of you bullet with a side wind of 15mph?

[Solothurn]

Originally Posted by fitzy

So if you do shoot long distance can you answer a question for me, what is the drift of you bullet with a side wind of 15mph?

It would depend on caliber and BC, but would also be a moot point as i do not know anyone dumb enough to take a shot at distance with a 15 MPH wind blowing.

Another part of the skill involved in long range hunting is "reading" the animal.
Certainly the unexpected can happen, but at distance you normally have alot of time to set up, judge the situation and decide if the shot is plausable. If the quary is moving around or agitated, you don't take the shot.
The last 3 deer I have killed i watched for over an hour before pulling the trigger. scoping out the area for others who may not know there is another hunter a long way off, is part of the drill, partly for safety concerns and partly so as not to have an unexpected spooking of the game.
Long range hunting is NOT a sport for those with little patience, there is a TON of waiting and observing to be done before any trigger gets pulled.
Another bonus is the number of things you see that most will miss as they rush around looking for something close at hand to attempt to kill.

[North of 53]

Posted by fitzy
"So if you do shoot long distance can you answer a question for me, what is the drift of you bullet with a side wind of 15mph? "

If I was shooting my hunting load that wind would give me about 8.2 MOA or 2.3 mils.
If I was shooting my target loads it is a little more. A 15 mph cross wind is more wind than I would shoot deer at long range at. Having said that, last weekend there were scores in the 70s (15 shot string) at 1000 yards with a cross wind gusting from 12-18 mph, some people can just flat out shoot and more importantly they can read wind.

[fitzy]

Ha good answer I was throwing one out there to see who would bite. Good to hear your looking for other hunters as well as other deer. If push comes to shove the only problem I have with guys shooting long range is the safety factor for other guys.

[Solothurn]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Ha good answer I was throwing one out there to see who would bite. Good to hear your looking for other hunters as well as other deer. If push comes to shove the only problem I have with guys shooting long range is the safety factor for other guys.

Either having total control of your surroundings ( not always an option) or total knowledge of where everyone else may be, can be or can come from is a paramount part of the overall equation. shooting at, over or near others is totally unacceptable:

[fitzy]

I agree, I hunt the NSR valley here and have had people shoot across the river going both ways, not a pleasant experience!

I wish I could learn to shoot at extreme long range! I usually hit where I'm aiming but I know my limits... no where near 100yards!!!

I'm fascinated at the work and planning that goes into it, I can handle the ballistics for my 30-06, 30-30 and .243 but thats about it.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Ha good answer I was throwing one out there to see who would bite. Good to hear your looking for other hunters as well as other deer. If push comes to shove the only problem I have with guys shooting long range is the safety factor for other guys.

"seeing who will bite" is not very correct in some cases, this being one.
I will explain this .
I can recall only hunter who has been shot at distance by a stray bullet, and I cannot recall just how far it was.
HOWEVER, I DO KNOW of about 10 that come to mind over the years that were shot at distances LESS than 150 yards, and most under 100 yards !

I firmly believe this is because at long distance a hunter tends to make sure that he/she will be able to make a good shot placement, and this means watching the animal for some time, something which often does not happen at close range.

A good discussion, BTW, does not need to start with trying to steer someone - ask them straight out, otherwise it starts to look like some sort of pop quiz, and the thread tends to go south .
Please do no take this as an attack , it is not, it is simply a suggestion
Cat

[bigoldan43]

I've been hearing the new short magnums are working real well. Depends on what you want at the end of the day. Recoil can really affect your ability to shoot. Many folks don't practice much with a rifle that they don't enjoy shooting. Of course, like some of the guys here mentioned, the 300 & 7mm mags, and '06 are time proven.
For accuracy, great trajectory, excellent wind cutting, have a look at the 260 Remington.
I heard somewhere that Canadian Tire Macleod Tr. Calgary has a sale on Remington 700's.
Whatever you settle on, your optics and how they are mounted will have a greater impact on your long range shooting abilities than the rifle or caliber.
There's a guy down in Nanton that specializes in that sort of thing.

[leo]

Originally Posted by North of 53

If anyone thinks they are never going to make a bad shoot on a deer no mater what distance you shoot at, they are just kidding them self. No one tries to make a bad shot but things happen. All you people that say your not judging are definitely judging so why not stop the BS. I have found that the range people shoot at has little to do with how many deer they do or don't take cleanly. So if we are going to be judging I would have to say that judging from the posts of the people that say there not judging I would judge that most of them have fired fewer than 300 serious rounds at anything over 800 yards,paper, steel or deer. I would judge that most of them have no idea of just what it takes to hit a 10" bull at 800 yards and over. They probably have no idea of just how consistently some people can do it and how impossible it is to do consistently for others. So please judge your self not others. If you think you can shoot get on the line and see how you can score, you may find you are better than you thought or you may find that you are not even close. The main thing is that you will know what you are capable of and can then judge your self accordingly.

Okay, I could be judging that you are a first class marksman when it comes to shooting your mouth off. But since I don't know you, that wouldn't be a reasonable assumption would it? So I won't judge. Have I shot more than 300 rounds at over 800 yards, absolutely not. can you predict the out come of your shot at any range, absolutely not. IMO the odds tend to favor a closer shot. In my 30 + years of hunting , the farthest shot I ever made at big game was just under 400 yards. Percentage wise, 90% of the animals I have shot at were between 100-200 yards, mainly because of my prefered hunting methods of spot and stalk/ still hunt. And not that I have kept track , but the count is well over 100 animals. At varmints I have done reasonably well with a hunting rifle out to 600 yards. I really don't give a shi# if you or anyone else shoots animals out to a mile , if your not breaking any laws it's none of my business is it? I truley am not judging, I consider it a waste of time, but I do wish for newcomers to under stand all aspects and diciplines involved in taking shots at these distances(specifically at big game), and yourself and many others have explained it much better than I could. I am sure the op has a lot to ponder before taking the next step, I wish him good luck, and the rest of you as well.

[Solothurn]

Originally Posted by North of 53

Posted by fitzy
"So if you do shoot long distance can you answer a question for me, what is the drift of you bullet with a side wind of 15mph? "

If I was shooting my hunting load that wind would give me about 8.2 MOA or 2.3 mils.
If I was shooting my target loads it is a little more. A 15 mph cross wind is more wind than I would shoot deer at long range at. Having said that, last weekend there were scores in the 70s (15 shot string) at 1000 yards with a cross wind gusting from 12-18 mph, some people can just flat out shoot and more importantly they can read wind.

To shoot at targets with a brisk wind is good fun and a challenge. If the target is only scared or wounded only the "paper" huggers care.
At game though I agree with your position, not worth the risk.

Fitzy The problem with a 15 mph wind is that at distance you have really no way to judge the effects. Small hills, creeks, ponds, tall crops, no crops all will make the wind effect different over the bullets course of flight.
This can and does still happen in the field. I have shot alot out at the farm and the wind where I am shooting from is zero but a mile away at the target the wind has made its presance known by the group size.

[fitzy]

All I know is I can respect the hell out of anyone that can hit what they aim at no matter what the range. I have absolutely no respect for anyone that just blasts away without knowing what they are shooting at or whether they can make the shot.

I have been known to argue for the sake of arguing, It's something I enjoy, its also a good way to learn a lot about the people on here. Much respect to the guys that can articulate a good argument not just shoot their mouths off. Thanks for the info Cat and solo

[bingo1010]

the internet is a wonderful place!!, every one shoots gophers at 1000 yards. but in the real world all that really matters is if you are comfortable with the shot. as hunters we must have respect for the animals that we harvest. whether it be 100 or 1000 yards. no doubt there are a lot more variables as the distance grows, but no matter the distance the ethical hunter will practice at that range before attempting a shot. the truth of the matter is that a lot of people (majority) are too cheap to shoot much ammo to become proficient no matter the range!!

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by bingo1010

the internet is a wonderful place!!, every one shoots gophers at 1000 yards. but in the real world all that really matters is if you are comfortable with the shot. as hunters we must have respect for the animals that we harvest. whether it be 100 or 1000 yards. no doubt there are a lot more variables as the distance grows, but no matter the distance the ethical hunter will practice at that range before attempting a shot. the truth of the matter is that a lot of people (majority) are too cheap to shoot much ammo to become proficient no matter the range!!

Probably the best post of the thread!

[Solothurn]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I have absolutely no respect for anyone that just blasts away without knowing what they are shooting at or whether they can make the shot.

I believe that holds true for most of us. The blaze and pray mentality is universally despised.