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[AbAngler]

The fax number on the survey sheet doesn't work....lol

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I guess you missed this post. The seasons vary in both provinces.



It's ok though. I understand you're a little hot under the collar this morning.

Deep breaths.

No i read it. I've hunted in BC as well. What you not getting is if they allow XGuns in the Bowzones then we as Bowhunters don't have a season anymore.

You are correct however about me getting hot under the collar. I get worked up when people post comments that are only for there own gain and blatantly could give a s*** about the consequences.

So i say, you want to be classed as a bowhunter. So, go and get a BOW and keep your toy crossbows out of the Archery zones!

[Stinky Coyote]

now that we know more about the crossbow, its real capabilities afield etc. how long do we ignore it and keep an obvious 'bow' in with the guns?

seriously, when should we finally acknowledge an obviously misplaced tool? is your answer just plain and simple 'never'? would that sound smart? how long do we ignore the obvious and pretend it doesn't exist?

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

I argue for hunters. What really gets me is the self entitlement of the ABA and their like. They don't want anyone else in their little early season club. They should be embracing the interest in xbows to bolster their ranks.

And I still say, the more hunters the better.

Great quote from a xbow and compound bow hunter from my reading this afternoon.

Angler. Why and how can the ABA "embrace" these crossbow hunters.
A. the tools are not bows.
B. the shooters are not archers.
C. the B. in ABA means BOW HUNTERS.

You might as well ask the International Game Fish Association to sanction and support Xbow hunters, the differences are that real. Sorry Stinky, the only ones pretending are the ones that are too dumb to realize, what they want so badly is thiers to have. There need not be any world war to get it. Buy bows fellas, shoot them, and enjoy archery. Millions of adults and youth across N.A. do. Whats your excuses?

Edit. Youd think the bow hunters had asked that these that wish to bow hunt shovel pig sh*t. Look at them all scatter and look for a mechanical way to do it. You know boys, the work is 99% of the fun. This instant gratification world is a sorry place aint it.....?

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

now that we know more about the crossbow, its real capabilities afield etc. how long do we ignore it and keep an obvious 'bow' in with the guns?

seriously, when should we finally acknowledge an obviously misplaced tool? is your answer just plain and simple 'never'? would that sound smart? how long do we ignore the obvious and pretend it doesn't exist?

I'm fine with them having a season for crossbows in different areas. Maybe after the regular season closes but not in the BOW only zones! Let them hunt late season in the general zones or something. The problem is many of the local rifle hunters think the BOW only zone and the early season is a slam dunk of a hunt if they can get there greedy lil' hands on it!

I say keep the xguns with the guns and leave the bow in the Bowzones.

I have yet to hear anyones reason for wanting a crossbow classed as a bow? Its because they don't want to learn something new and would rather just pick up a gun that shoots arrows and get a new season.

Still would love to know why they can't learn to shoot a bow like the rest of us if they want to hunt in the bowzone. If your handicapped and physically can't draw a bow then i can understand, other then that whats everyone else's reason? Lazy maybe?

[Stinky Coyote]

there's been zillions of reasons to include it, out of time but i'll be back to this...for the zillionth time!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

there's been zillions of reasons to include it, out of time but i'll be back to this...for the zillionth time!

Please fill us in then. I have not herd one.Just I want I want. Love to here all of this.

[diamonddave]

Separate 2 week season for xbows and muzzle loaders......... 3 weeks prior to the regular bow season.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

I'm fine with them having a season for crossbows in different areas. Maybe after the regular season closes but not in the BOW only zones! Let them hunt late season in the general zones or something. The problem is many of the local rifle hunters think the BOW only zone and the early season is a slam dunk of a hunt if they can get there greedy lil' hands on it!

I say keep the xguns with the guns and leave the bow in the Bowzones.

I have yet to hear anyones reason for wanting a crossbow classed as a bow? Its because they don't want to learn something new and would rather just pick up a gun that shoots arrows and get a new season.

Still would love to know why they can't learn to shoot a bow like the rest of us if they want to hunt in the bowzone. If your handicapped and physically can't draw a bow then i can understand, other then that whats everyone else's reason? Lazy maybe?

Now if that's not a question that has been put forward 100 times, 100 different ways without a single answer for the Xgun hunters, would someone step to the plate with an answer!!!

[gman1978]

Why do xbow and muzzleloaders need there own season? Hunters can use both weapons during the rifle season. It seams like when it comes to antlers you can through some peoples brains out the window. This whole big buck syndrome has gotten carried away. It seems like some individuals want all the advantage they can to harvest the biggest animal out there within the rules. If a separate xbow and muzzleloader season is needed move it to the end of the rife season and give out the unsubscribed tags for does that are available. We have a great opportunity to harvest trophy animals in Alberta right now. There are some great genetics in our game animals. I know our hunting is the envy of many areas in north America. Why ruin a great thing. I know that change is "cool" but in some cases the best is left as is.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by gman1978

Why do xbow and muzzleloaders need there own season? Hunters can use both weapons during the rifle season. It seams like when it comes to antlers you can through some peoples brains out the window. This whole big buck syndrome has gotten carried away. It seems like some individuals want all the advantage they can to harvest the biggest animal out there within the rules. If a separate xbow and muzzleloader season is needed move it to the end of the rife season and give out the unsubscribed tags for does that are available. We have a great opportunity to harvest trophy animals in Alberta right now. There are some great genetics in our game animals. I know our hunting is the envy of many areas in north America. Why ruin a great thing. I know that change is "cool" but in some cases the best is left as is.

Great answer,

[rielbowhunter]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

I'm fine with them having a season for crossbows in different areas. Maybe after the regular season closes but not in the BOW only zones! Let them hunt late season in the general zones or something. The problem is many of the local rifle hunters think the BOW only zone and the early season is a slam dunk of a hunt if they can get there greedy lil' hands on it!

I say keep the xguns with the guns and leave the bow in the Bowzones.

I have yet to hear anyones reason for wanting a crossbow classed as a bow? Its because they don't want to learn something new and would rather just pick up a gun that shoots arrows and get a new season.

Still would love to know why they can't learn to shoot a bow like the rest of us if they want to hunt in the bowzone. If your handicapped and physically can't draw a bow then i can understand, other then that whats everyone else's reason? Lazy maybe?

2x. Not in bow only zones. Could you just picture sneeking in on a ram in exshaw,with your bow in hand. and Bang some guy with a new muzzle loader shooting it from 300 yards. Like thats the same thing. FU(< No way!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

there's been zillions of reasons to include it, out of time but i'll be back to this...for the zillionth time!

post #67 where is your answer or any body else on the xbow band wagon?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

I have yet to hear anyones reason for wanting a crossbow classed as a bow?

and i'm sure you mean classed as a bow in the context of hunting here in Alberta, so my answers will reflect of course

1. for the option to another 'like' tool to be used in 'like' seasons...as a matter of commonsense

2. it is one size/strength fits all bow, the advantages of this alone for all wildlife certificate holders is huge imo

3. introduction tool, to have something that can be used more ethically quickly by a larger number of wildlife certificate holders is a huge plus for our hunting sports, we all know how most vertical bowhunters first season generally goes....buy lots of arrows right, and we won't go there on the poor shot placements that often and almost usually go with those first couple seasons, the ethical standpoint alone one could use as a strong point by itself but thats not one of my own personal reasons...and thats all i'm giving(my personal reasons)

4. economy, as used as an introduction tool (if say...a guy is the type to always promote and introduce as many people to hunting as possible), being one size/strength fits all means one doesn't have to purchase and have on hand a bunch of different bows in different draw lengths and different poundage ranges with different draw lengths again and the tons of different arrows etc. to go along with, so one could always have something on hand to take someone new bowhunting and it wouldn't matter what size or shape they were or draw length and you wouldn't risk going through everything required to set up a vertical bow only to have them not interested in the sport once they've had a go at it

further to the above...kind of like i always have spare guns to take people gopher, coyote and sometimes big game hunting but i'm much more passionate about bowhunting and would rather a more convenient way to introduce people into those areas and seasons where i play the most

further notes: i already know what a boatload of the rebuttles will be, same old stuff so will try to snuff a bunch of it out with the following to save yall some typing...

first, a couple quotes i grabbed from a quick couple googles

"Fact: The only advantage a crossbow has over a conventional bow is that it holds the bow in the drawn, or ready to fire, position for the shooter. While shooting a crossbow is generally easier to master than shooting a vertical bow, it cannot be argued that it is just plain easy. The crossbow hunter must have the same woodsmanship ability and nearly all of the same shooting skills as the vertical bowhunter."

and when you research the differences between crossbows vs compounds you find this same conclusion over and over and over...it is a fact that in the hands of hunters the kill ratios are basically identical to the compound....which proves the point its 99% hunter and 1% tool...much like the last sentence of above quote says...

"Fact: Any experienced crossbow hunter will tell you that there are many ways to make a bad shot with a crossbow. First, if a crossbow is not cocked perfectly straight, it will not shoot straight. If the bowstring is pulled even 1/16th of an inch to the right or left of center, that difference can translate into a six-inch error at 20-yards. Additionally, like any conventional bow shooter, a crossbow shooter must maintain a proper stance, control breathing, squeeze rather than “jerk” the trigger, steady the entire body, and follow through (watch the entire arrow flight through the sighting mechanism) after the release. And finally, the crossbow hunter must also be a good judge of distance"

Any of that sound familiar boys? Sounds just about the same amount of effort and tuning/setup ability as doing it with compound....its not the walk in the park yall make it out to be....yall make it sound like the thing will run the animal down and kill it in its tracks when you pull that trigger. Not so.


"For me the most troubling aspect in the whole crossbow issue is seeing how much energy hunters exert squabbling about the pros and cons of crossbows. Meanwhile, these same hunters blissfully ignore the real issues that threaten our hunting heritage. Wouldn’t it be wiser for us to be more tolerant of each other and pick our battles with the ones that really threaten our way of life instead of with our own?"

i think this guy has a pretty good 'big picture' of this......eh?

and there is so much more to show how much more versatile a compound is than a crossbow, they are cumbersome, the pain in arse and slow to load making them basically a single shot, they are louder as a rule which means your even less likely to get a second shot despite how long it would take you to arrow one of them up.....no thanks, for me it makes a great introduction tool but i sure don't plan on hunting with it myself...i love my compound, another reason i really like it is for the weaker (read young, old, small stature...whatever) can shoot similar power/ke to us big strong boys hell bent on keeping it a mostly 'big strong boy club'

another point....if yall are shooting compounds now...how is it you have any legs to stand on in this fight period? don't think the same fuss was made when training wheels came into the world and wanted to be classified into the same category as longbows and recurves? this is exactly the same thing only the difference in performance from compound bows to the traditional gear is absolutely massive....the difference between the compound vs crossbow is basically SFA (sweet f___ all, in case you hadn't heard that one before), so it REALLY baffles me on this point alone....

your shooting basically indentical equipment (triggers/power/accuracy) etc. and the facts all over the continent prove that and yet you fight it simply to keep the club smaller...there is only one answer as to why that is....its selfishness....and its okay to be selfish about what your passionate....doesn't make it right, better or good for the rest of the wildlife certificate holders imo

anyone else have any reasons that might be different than mine to want the crossbow in where it should be?

[packhuntr]

I like ya Stinky, but you can take that whole thing and shove it. I dont like this nonsence one bit.

[Stinky Coyote]

i can see i left a little wiggle room for the argument to shoot off bipods/rested etc. in regards to the not being quite so easy to shoot as often made out to be....well, in this regard i'm going to head to the 'ethical' standpoint, if there was a bow for people to get started into bowhunting then this crossbow is IT! thank goodness you can rest them or bipod them!

that being said....when you come to full draw and anchor, which anyone not into archery won't know is.....its almost like being rested, holding a bow out with one hand trying to aim it seems like it would be hard but its like a little piece of stability heaven when you draw that thing back and tuck into your anchor....doing the kind of shooting i've been doing with rifles lately i have no problem saying that there is no way i can hold a crosshair through my riflescope on target freehand as steady as i can hold a pin on target with my compound bow....so once again, thank god you can rest crossbows or they might just be a waste of time


only when i'm rested over a pack or bipod etc. with my rifle can i get as steady or steadier than i am at full draw with my bow

then there's the 'yeah but you can't hold your bow for as long as you can lay prone and wait' argument etc. but then we get back to the 99% hunter vs 1% tool.....if this difference was such a deal breaker then harvest stats would show it....but they don't.....so there

how many more of these silly little arguments can i rebuttle here before they take off again? i'm sure one or two more edits might be coming as i think of the usual rebuttles to come

[packhuntr]

You really should consider used cars Stinky. Maybe even vaccum cleaners. Youd be great.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I like ya Stinky, but you can take that whole thing and shove it. I dont like this nonsence one bit.

always a pleasure getting into this with you Pack....what say we have at er again in oh.....six months?

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by JustinC

post #67 where is your answer or any body else on the xbow band wagon?

we cool now my brotha from anotha motha?

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

i can see i left a little wiggle room for the argument to shoot off bipods/rested etc. in regards to the not being quite so easy to shoot as often made out to be....well, in this regard i'm going to head to the 'ethical' standpoint, if there was a bow for people to get started into bowhunting then this crossbow is IT! thank goodness you can rest them or bipod them!

that being said....when you come to full draw and anchor, which anyone not into archery won't know is.....its almost like being rested, holding a bow out with one hand trying to aim it seems like it would be hard but its like a little piece of stability heaven when you draw that thing back and tuck into your anchor....doing the kind of shooting i've been doing with rifles lately i have no problem saying that there is no way i can hold a crosshair through my riflescope on target freehand as steady as i can hold a pin on target with my compound bow....so once again, thank god you can rest crossbows or they might just be a waste of time

Sorry still a big NO from me unless you draw it back right before you shoot.If you do that than it would be fair.That is one of my biggest problems with them also there will be waymore people hunting with arrows= Draws. No thanks I am not buying it to your answer. Lets here facts not opinions.I thought there were zillions..........

[Stinky Coyote]

and for the record, i wanted to reply as soon as i saw the posts....the kids are in bed now and thats the truth....so don't be thinkin i worked on that all day....yall would switch sides if i had all day

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

we cool now my brotha from anotha motha?

We are cool I just dont like xbows cause I think they have a edge over compounds.Also I dont want to have to apply for a draw to bowhunt cause of the great deal more hunters that cant or dont want to learn how to use a compound or traditonal equipment.But are all good with shoot a gun that shoots arrows.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Sorry still a big NO from me unless you draw it back right before you shoot.If you do that than it would be fair.That is one of my biggest problems with them also there will be waymore people hunting with arrows= Draws. No thanks I am not buying it to your answer. Lets here facts not opinions.I thought there were zillions..........

holy crap, first you want the opinions and now you want the facts....google is your friend....or hit up the main crossbow thread on this forum to catch up....any kind of fact needed to understand all this has been regurgitated over and over and over....even right here on this forum....pretty sure the most complete record is in the monster main sticky crossbow thread....you'll find some eye opening facts in there that i and way more people than i were able to dig up etc. so the stuff i say here is just condensed stuff thats already known....i'm not making anything up

so we'z gots the facts....and now we'z gots the opinions....we got it all now baby....yeah......life's goooood

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

and for the record, i wanted to reply as soon as i saw the posts....the kids are in bed now and thats the truth....so don't be thinkin i worked on that all day....yall would switch sides if i had all day

It is all good only sheep hunter sits on here all day everyday.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

and i'm sure you mean classed as a bow in the context of hunting here in Alberta, so my answers will reflect of course

1. for the option to another 'like' tool to be used in 'like' seasons...as a matter of commonsense

2. it is one size/strength fits all bow, the advantages of this alone for all wildlife certificate holders is huge imo

3. introduction tool, to have something that can be used more ethically quickly by a larger number of wildlife certificate holders is a huge plus for our hunting sports, we all know how most vertical bowhunters first season generally goes....buy lots of arrows right, and we won't go there on the poor shot placements that often and almost usually go with those first couple seasons, the ethical standpoint alone one could use as a strong point by itself but thats not one of my own personal reasons...and thats all i'm giving(my personal reasons)

4. economy, as used as an introduction tool (if say...a guy is the type to always promote and introduce as many people to hunting as possible), being one size/strength fits all means one doesn't have to purchase and have on hand a bunch of different bows in different draw lengths and different poundage ranges with different draw lengths again and the tons of different arrows etc. to go along with, so one could always have something on hand to take someone new bowhunting and it wouldn't matter what size or shape they were or draw length and you wouldn't risk going through everything required to set up a vertical bow only to have them not interested in the sport once they've had a go at it

further to the above...kind of like i always have spare guns to take people gopher, coyote and sometimes big game hunting but i'm much more passionate about bowhunting and would rather a more convenient way to introduce people into those areas and seasons where i play the most

further notes: i already know what a boatload of the rebuttles will be, same old stuff so will try to snuff a bunch of it out with the following to save yall some typing...

first, a couple quotes i grabbed from a quick couple googles

"Fact: The only advantage a crossbow has over a conventional bow is that it holds the bow in the drawn, or ready to fire, position for the shooter. While shooting a crossbow is generally easier to master than shooting a vertical bow, it cannot be argued that it is just plain easy. The crossbow hunter must have the same woodsmanship ability and nearly all of the same shooting skills as the vertical bowhunter." What about the ability to utilize a rest? and therefore 0% muscle power needed!

and when you research the differences between crossbows vs compounds you find this same conclusion over and over and over...it is a fact that in the hands of hunters the kill ratios are basically identical to the compound....which proves the point its 99% hunter and 1% tool...much like the last sentence of above quote says...

"Fact: Any experienced crossbow hunter will tell you that there are many ways to make a bad shot with a crossbow. First, if a crossbow is not cocked perfectly straight, it will not shoot straight. If the bowstring is pulled even 1/16th of an inch to the right or left of center, that difference can translate into a six-inch error at 20-yards. So potentially numerous wounded deer running around wth land owners blaming bowhunters cause of the arrow.Additionally, like any conventional bow shooter, a crossbow shooter must maintain a proper stance, control breathing, squeeze rather than “jerk” the trigger, steady the entire body, Sounds like a gun to me and follow through (watch the entire arrow flight through the sighting mechanism) after the release. And finally, the crossbow hunter must also be a good judge of distance"

Any of that sound familiar boys? Sounds just about the same amount of effort and tuning/setup ability as doing it with compound....its not the walk in the park yall make it out to be....yall make it sound like the thing will run the animal down and kill it in its tracks when you pull that trigger. Not so.


"For me the most troubling aspect in the whole crossbow issue is seeing how much energy hunters exert squabbling about the pros and cons of crossbows. Meanwhile, these same hunters blissfully ignore the real issues that threaten our hunting heritage. Wouldn’t it be wiser for us to be more tolerant of each other and pick our battles with the ones that really threaten our way of life instead of with our own?"

i think this guy has a pretty good 'big picture' of this......eh?

and there is so much more to show how much more versatile a compound is than a crossbow, they are cumbersome, the pain in arse and slow to load making them basically a single shot In Gladaitor didn't they have those double sided Xguns, that you shot, spun and shot again.........HMMMM maybe Stinky your on to something....lol, they are louder as a rule which means your even less likely to get a second shot despite how long it would take you to arrow one of them up.....no thanks, for me it makes a great introduction tool but i sure don't plan on hunting with it myself...i love my compound, another reason i really like it is for the weaker If you have a disability , your already allowed to use a Xgun(read young, old, small stature...whatever) can shoot similar power/ke to us big strong boys hell bent on keeping it a mostly 'big strong boy club' Most guys don't shoot over 60 lbs, and 28 inch draw, so now your talking a small % of archers
another point....if yall are shooting compounds now...how is it you have any legs to stand on in this fight period? don't think the same fuss was made when training wheels came into the world and wanted to be classified into the same category as longbows and recurves? this is exactly the same thing only the difference in performance from compound bows to the traditional gear is absolutely massive The only diffrence is that trad bows and compound bows are still BOWS, and an improvement in the evolution of bows, now your comparing a bow to a gun and a down grade to a rifle at that????....the difference between the compound vs crossbow is basically SFA (sweet f___ all, in case you hadn't heard that one before), so it REALLY baffles me on this point alone....

your shooting basically indentical equipment (triggers/power/accuracy) etc. and the facts all over the continent prove that and yet you fight it simply to keep the club smaller...there is only one answer as to why that is....its selfishness....and its okay to be selfish about what your passionate....doesn't make it right, better or good for the rest of the wildlife certificate holders imo

anyone else have any reasons that might be different than mine to want the crossbow in where it should be?

Red is intresting things you said

Green Is my opinions

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

and for the record, i wanted to reply as soon as i saw the posts....the kids are in bed now and thats the truth....so don't be thinkin i worked on that all day....yall would switch sides if i had all day

B.S I saw you at the doing research at the university library!!!!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

holy crap, first you want the opinions and now you want the facts....google is your friend....or hit up the main crossbow thread on this forum to catch up....any kind of fact needed to understand all this has been regurgitated over and over and over....even right here on this forum....pretty sure the most complete record is in the monster main sticky crossbow thread....you'll find some eye opening facts in there that i and way more people than i were able to dig up etc. so the stuff i say here is just condensed stuff thats already known....i'm not making anything up

so we'z gots the facts....and now we'z gots the opinions....we got it all now baby....yeah......life's goooood

OK


I am useing my dad for eg. He has a licence to use one know do to his sholder.He bow hunter for 20 years. never killed anything.he went out this year with me and killed 2 animals with his cross bow that we not easy shots.but with the tripod on it it was way to easy for him.He said I wish I could have used one of these for all of those years would of kill lots of stuff.That is another reason. Someone that hunts with one agrees with what we are talking about.I have my fact so do you.This is a no win battle but I do think some should be aloud to use them but not everybody.

[Stinky Coyote]

one last thing my brotha's......there is nothing lazy about bowhunting period imo....the crossbow is no different, might shorten your rangework time a bit in the pre-season but all that scouting/hunting/treestanding/blinding/hiking/scent control blah blah blah....those 99 million other things that separates the talented hunters from the masses etc......its still the same range you need to get within, sure the elite will learn their equipment further than the masses....no different with any other tool....but the elite with compounds will run right with the elite with crossbows for range, the elite killers with compounds will be just as elite if you put a crossbow in their hands....not more effective....because its 99% hunter and 1% tool

and the kind of work that goes into say getting inside of 50 yrds of game and for the trophy guys....inside say 50 yrds (just overall average number i pulled from a hat that will apply to both bows...proven/documented...look it up if you don't believe me) of the big trophies.....is the kind of work that doesn't fit the term 'lazy'

its bowhunting no matter how you slice it, shaving a bit of range time doesn't make you lazy as thats really nothing as compared to what it takes to consistently get inside bow range of game.....and as said so many zillions of times....the most hardcore of us will be shooting compounds anyhow....i doubt you'll see anywhere near the amount of high end talent taking up crossbows as you will with compounds....so the old realestate addage of 10% of the realtors make 90% of the money will still hold true....the most killingest of trophy hunters among us will almost certainly still be doing it with compounds....the more hardcore among us will be using the compounds imo

[rottie]

Stinky your on the right track,thought I would stay out of this one but I think SC has it right

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by rottie

Stinky your on the right track,thought I would stay out of this one but I think SC has it right

do you bow hunt? or are you waiting to go buy a crossbow? be honest.