Wifes firearm

[bezzola]

Ok need some help.
She camps and works from the rv all some and i work 7 on 7 off out of forthills.
I leave my defender for her as she has had a couple bear encounters. Our 2 saints bernards do a good job on stopping it in its tracks. But the defender is a little much for her. So i need options for her when she doesn’t have her dad or our boys with her.

[nast70]

What about bear bangers? I'll guess she has a couple cans of spray nearby?
That being said instead of shot or slugs there a re non-lethal options for the shotty like flares and rubber balls. I doubt they will have the same recoil as a regular shot shell.

[Mountain Guy]

Not sure what you mean by it being a little much for her..If she needs to use it that will be the last thing she will think about. And in that case it won't be too much gun.
Not to mention the likelihood of her needing to use it in defense from a bear is slim. More likely needing it from crack heads looking for free stuff to pawn.

[Groundhogger]

I had an original Winchester Defender (1200 or 1300) and to be honest, it's not the slickest action. It had a feature called "speed pump" or something that would essentially unlock the (rotating?) bolt upon firing. To take advantage of that feature, it was like you had to almost be initiating the rearward motion as you were pulling the trigger. Mine was the full-length mag tube, and when loaded to the hilt, the balance switched to the muzzle end.

Yours could be a newer gun?

The bear defense questions are usually allot like this, pros/cons of pumps vs. semis (the latter for recoil mitigation) etc. I think the consensus IS that a shotgun is best, and that a pump is the most reliable..so what pump?

I think a well-used 870 or Mossberg should be considered, and possibly in 20ga. If you can find one, the 870 Youth (20ga) has a shorter LOP, and a 21" VR barrel with Remchoke. 20ga 870 slug barrels are not hard to find. A mossberg 500 might be an even better choice, they feel lighter in hand with their aluminum receiver. Other than upgrading the safety swtich to a metal one, 500s need nothing.

Seems like when the 590A1 popularity really started to grow, Mossberg starting putting their parkerized finish on 500s and calling them 590s or 590 tacticals, etc. A 20ga model 500 with a slug barrel or bobbed VR one might be good?

Last suggestion-I've seen them listed from time to time, but the 870 clone by Norinco was offered in 20ga for a period of time. Saw one listed about a month back. Could be a good option, both price and size. If you're able to convince her to stick with a 12ga, consider a shorter barrel and possibly a Hogue/rubberized forend. They can feel less slippery when wet, and the improved grip might help her feel a greater sense of control.

[Bushleague]

If I wanted a rifle, just for bear protection, I would likely go with a Lee Enfield.

Less recoil than a defender, good industrial grade iron sights, the Rangers used them as polar bear deterant, up untill about 2016 I beleive?

[wallz]

Could always look at 44 mag levers. Still easy to operate and carry 7 ish rounds. One round in ready, and just have to pull the hammer back to fire.

There are 20 ga shorty shotguns available as well. Thinking the double barrel shorty, about 12" barrel, full rear stock to still shoulder it well. 00 buck loaded in both should do the trick well.

[jednastka]

Could the "too much for her" simply be a matter that the stock fits you, but is too long for her? I would fit the stock to her then, and either get used to a shorter stock, or use a slip-on pad.
Vic

[Dick284]

Here you go:

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=424400

[3blade]

Been down this road, I love my 12 but the defender is too much for most.

Here’s the thing - you don’t like the gun, you don’t practice, you don’t hit **** when it counts

Wifey ended up with a rossi 92 triple black in 357. 180 hard cast HSM bear loads. Probably 17-1800 fps mv. Not the “ideal” bear gun, but big smile when plinking and every round goes where it’s supposed to. Shorter LOP, more drop, light weight, light recoil, quiet. Tons of confidence. None of my guns fit her, hers doesn’t fit me, so there’s no mix ups.

44mag and hard cast would also be a good choice, as would a 18 inch barreled 7-08 with Barnes.

Re 20g: I don’t know if you can find challenger or brenekke slugs in 20. Foster/hp and buck shot are too soft for good penetration on a bear and that has gotten people in trouble even with a 12g

The gun has to fit her, and the ammunition must be designed for penetration.

[Smokinyotes]

Does your defender have a pistol grip? Mine does and it is brutal to shoot and tough to shoot any other way than from the hip.

[6.5 shooter]

Wife suggested an air horn. Flares, I would suggest, are a bad idea seeing how dry it is.
If you feel a shotgun is more in line. A good pump and some 00 buckshot may be the ticket? Those little mini shot shells (2")? may be a an answer to the recoil issue.

[crwhite]

I second the Bantam shotgun. We bought one of these for my younger boys for bird hunting. They are great.

[graybeard]

Maybe something like this: size, gauge, fit......?

Good luck,

https://www.gunpost.ca/firearms/shot...gun-muddy-girl

[Battle Rat]

A Shockwave style grip is much more manageable and provides greater accuracy.
For sh*ts and gigs I used one surprisingly well on clays.

[88thunderbird]

a few years ago , i bought wife the weatherby PA-08 Threat response in 20ga .
small ,light package ,rubberized stock , grip. very light recoiling . very nice overall.

[3blade]

You can in fact get challenger 20g slugs now. That definitely upgrades the pump or semi auto 20 into the conversation

Everyone needs to stop with the buckshot for bears stupidity. That will get you killed. Buckshot is best for coyotes, 2 or 4 legged, and nothing else. It does NOT penetrate far enough to reliably kill a bear.

[bezzola]

We were looking at a 44 mag lever today but now the is insure if he wants to sell it. Summer coming to a close she will just have my defender pump and will do more looking through the winter.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 3blade

You can in fact get challenger 20g slugs now. That definitely upgrades the pump or semi auto 20 into the conversation

Everyone needs to stop with the buckshot for bears stupidity. That will get you killed. Buckshot is best for coyotes, 2 or 4 legged, and nothing else. It does NOT penetrate far enough to reliably kill a bear.

Buckshot is for two legged critters.....period....slugs for four legged critters.


Two camp guns, short shotty for tent, cabin, close quarters holly crap etc.....good ol’303 for the rest.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Does your defender have a pistol grip? Mine does and it is brutal to shoot and tough to shoot any other way than from the hip.

Going to be a critical situation, be a buggar to miss, shooting from the hip is not how I would want to deal with an attacking bear, especially in 12 gauge.

Grizz

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams1

Going to be a critical situation, be a buggar to miss, shooting from the hip is not how I would want to deal with an attacking bear, especially in 12 gauge.

Grizz

I don't know who come up with the idea of the pistol grip shotgun but it isn't effective shooting from the hip and might be just slightly better using it as a club.
The shock wave style rear grip allows you to push it forward while you pull on the forearm to aim or point it more like you would a shotgun with a shoulder stock.
It works and is easy to keep the bead where it needs to be when pumping another round in.

[wwbirds]

Run by Bob Gibson from WSS gun counter. Run for biologists in the Arctic who may encounter a polar bear. First they trained on using a shotgun (basics) as many had little to no experience. Then they practiced shooting at stationary targets with buckshot to at least get them on the paper of a life sized bear target. Next they fired a few slugs at same targets. Shooting between 20 to thirty yards shooting was quite poor. Final test for graduation was a simulated charge with some kind of mechanical contraption at speed moving towards them that allowed a generous 5 or so stressful seconds before the plywood bear was on them. The stress of moving target further deteriorated shooting scores. In Bob Gibsons opinion after it was over, that without bear spray a lot of biologists would be eaten by polar bears.

[1899b]

Find a Rossi Ranch Hand (mares leg) in .44 magnum and put a full size butt stock on it. Handy powerful carbine with a 12.5” barrel ( totally legal and is non restricted).

[graybeard]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Run by Bob Gibson from WSS gun counter.

In Bob Gibsons opinion after it was over, that without bear spray a lot of biologists would be eaten by polar bears.

Awww, Bob Gibson a good name from a day gone by....

[Battle Rat]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Find a Rossi Ranch Hand (mares leg) in .44 magnum and put a full size butt stock on it. Handy powerful carbine with a 12.5” barrel ( totally legal and is non restricted).

Great choice but he problem is finding one and a bigger problem is the ridiculous asking price.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Run by Bob Gibson from WSS gun counter. Run for biologists in the Arctic who may encounter a polar bear. First they trained on using a shotgun (basics) as many had little to no experience. Then they practiced shooting at stationary targets with buckshot to at least get them on the paper of a life sized bear target. Next they fired a few slugs at same targets. Shooting between 20 to thirty yards shooting was quite poor. Final test for graduation was a simulated charge with some kind of mechanical contraption at speed moving towards them that allowed a generous 5 or so stressful seconds before the plywood bear was on them. The stress of moving target further deteriorated shooting scores. In Bob Gibsons opinion after it was over, that without bear spray a lot of biologists would be eaten by polar bears.

I’ve seen a 45 gallon drum on a zip line flying towards the shooter but stopping short. Pretty funny to watch guys with heavy 26 inch barreled hunting rifles try it. The target was safe from almost everyone, except the grouse hunters used to snap shots.

A few of us ran similar drills, though more redneckered and far more dangerous - various target contraptions rolling down hills towards a shooter facing the other way, turn-fire-get out of the way. Young and dumb, not recommended. But I can tell you by the end of a week doing that, a guy had a good chance of hits and survival, and a good understanding of whether his weapon was useful or not.

Plenty of experienced hunters have never been under threat and get torn to shreds. If you live/work/play in bear country, at least run some up close, timed drills with your weapon of choice. You play how you practice.

[wallz]

Originally Posted by bezzola

We were looking at a 44 mag lever today but now the is insure if he wants to sell it. Summer coming to a close she will just have my defender pump and will do more looking through the winter.

I know of a Henry X model 44, new retail. I'll pm you details. Nice and short barrel on those, and they have open sights, and ability to mount a little optic on it if required.