FLAMES 2021-22. Our time has not come

[brendan's dad]

Hahaha... this is funny.

Next we will hear Mangiapane is a better goal scorer than McDavid ......wait a minute, I better check the stats.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I figure some of his +/- stat is probably his ice time, but it appears that is only about 3.5 minutes average more then Johnny. It will be interesting to see how Connor holds up come playoffs, playing as much as he does with the Olympics( assuming the NHL goes) last year he seemed to run out of gas in the playoffs and only had to play 56 games. 82 plus Olympics and travel time could be rough for him.

You run out of gas fast if you are towing a couple jets around.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Hahaha... this is funny.

Next we will hear Mangiapane is a better goal scorer than McDavid ......wait a minute, I better check the stats.

Exactly. I really like Mangiappane, he's a dynamic and talented young player. I've been a Flames fan since 80, but come on already. I said it earlier. McDavid. Best. Player. Ever.

Anybody who can't readily admit it, doesn't even hockey.

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

McDavid. Best. Player. Ever.

Anybody who can't readily admit it, doesn't even hockey.

Yup, just unfortunate the color of the Jersey he wears.... 31 other jerseys would be better, well maybe 29 Arizona/Buffalo may have actually been worse.

As for the missed calls on him, there should probably be more, but the standard is to manage the game. I am sure if they call more on McDavid, they would just call let calls go against his teammates.

I doubt anyone actually wants to watch a hockey game that is being stopped every 30 seconds for a penalty. If they call 5 against Connor they will find 5 against the Oilers. You can't honestly watch hockey and not see about 5 missed calls/game. Every team has players getting hooked/slashed/tripped etc all the time.

It is why some of the rules have been focused like hooking, when it gets in the hands its called almost all the time, even if it barely touches the hands. Slashing when they break a stick its always called. This year crosschecking on the back getting called a lot compared to years past.

Part of the reason Tkatchuk draws so many penalties, is the refs usually let the first on go, but hardly ever let the retaliation go

There are several hooks/slashes/crosschecks every game against all players that are not called, I personally don't think there should be preferential treatment for certain players.

The Jets vs Oilers game the other night the 3 broadcasters talking about how more penalties need to be called against Connor during the intermission, then in the third period the Jets were all over the Oilers and the play by play guy says the Refs have put the whistles away and are letting the players decide the outcome like it should be.... WTF!

[270person]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Drai is a far better two way player than McDavid.

The numbers don’t lie for Johnny this season. If he wasn’t back checking… was coughing up quality changes… not doing the Sutter hustle… he would not be in the great +/- position.

Oilers cough up lots of quality chances and don’t forecheck as hard as the Flames. It shows.

One can no longer invoke McJesus and say it’s everyone else’s fault for team problems. The defined is their plus minus. McJesus is a great player… he needs to work on his defensive game and help out his goalie.

+ - is a fairly bogus stat dependant on 5 other teammates performace when on ice. A shared stat in other words. It even tops goalie GAA on the next to meaningless scale.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I figure some of his +/- stat is probably his ice time, but it appears that is only about 3.5 minutes average more then Johnny. It will be interesting to see how Connor holds up come playoffs, playing as much as he does with the Olympics( assuming the NHL goes) last year he seemed to run out of gas in the playoffs and only had to play 56 games. 82 plus Olympics and travel time could be rough for him.

As long as McDavid doesn't mimic Johnny's playoff performances in recent "forevers" all should be good.

Sorry but Mini Me doesn't even fit in the same conversation.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

McDavid. Best. Player. Ever.

Anybody who can't readily admit it, doesn't even hockey.

Did you say that with a straight face?

Guess it depends how you measure "best player". Is it pure offensive skill, fastest skater, most points, ability to put the team on his back and all pull together, regular season or playoff success, how do you compare a forward to a goalie?

Pittsburgh finished the season dead last in 2005, drafted Crosby that summer, and Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2008. He has more playoff points in one season than McDavid does his entire 7 year career, and it's not even close. He completely transformed that franchise.

Skill wise, McDavid may be the greatest ever but Kovalev had alot of skill too. Total package, I'm not sure he eclipses Crosby let alone Gretzky, Lemieux, Roy, Orr....

Guess I don't even hockey......which is true, quit playing a few years ago, the going to bed at 1:00 AM on a weekday got to me after a few years.

[Twisted Canuck]

I did say it with a straight face, and I was speaking purely in terms of skill. Yes. I was very clear. I said nobody has the speed or talent he does, or can do the things he does, at the speeds he does. And you'd like to talk about goal tending as a comparison. Ok.

There are other fantastic players you mentioned, that have better numbers, granted. Those numbers are a reflection of the whole organisation they play for, from the ownership down to the prospects. It's Macro Hockey. That's fine. But on a purely micro level, the individual, please name one player who is faster and more skilled? That was the specific criteria I noted.

[roper1]

Watched Pittsburgh in Calgary at the height of Lemieux's career. Before 2 line passes, he pushed his ass against the red line center ice with a skate on either side. Parked!!!!!! Like not even skating in circles so he could pick up an outlet pass on the fly. Parked!!!!!

It was 5 on 4 all night with the puck in Pittsburgh's end. Final score was like 10-4 Flames IIRC.

If I was on Lemieux's team, I would have slashed him across the skates in the first intermission.

While not Nirvana, +/- or Corsi or what have you are all measurements with some value.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I did say it with a straight face, and I was speaking purely in terms of skill. Yes. I was very clear. I said nobody has the speed or talent he does, or can do the things he does, at the speeds he does. And you'd like to talk about goal tending as a comparison. Ok.

There are other fantastic players you mentioned, that have better numbers, granted. Those numbers are a reflection of the whole organisation they play for, from the ownership down to the prospects. It's Macro Hockey. That's fine. But on a purely micro level, the individual, please name one player who is faster and more skilled? That was the specific criteria I noted.

Fair enough. I'll stick with Crosby in his prime as an overall player to build around though.

Has McDavid ever done this, yaa, didn't think so!
Link

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by roper1

While not Nirvana, +/- or Corsi or what have you are all measurements with some value.

Yes they do. If you look at some of the players with the best +/- off all time, you see names like Orr, Gretzky, Bourque, Savard, Potvin, Lidstrom, Lafleur, Bossy, etc. The worst, guys like Lever, Croteau, Babych, Charron, etc. I know some think it's useless, but I doubt that's just a random coincidence.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Fair enough. I'll stick with Crosby in his prime as an overall player to build around though.

Has McDavid ever done this, yaa, didn't think so!
Link

Crosby is a great. No question. It's unfortunate the concussions he got, he may have crushed all the records. I can respect that you see him as the better player, but from a pure skill perspective I still have to go with McDavid. I wonder what he would have done with a team built around him like Gretzky had? Coffee, Anderson, Lowe, Kuri, Messier, Tikkanen, Fuhr, etc etc.

But really, McDavid is skilled and fast beyond measure.

Good clip of Crosby too, he is a warrior, no question.

Now, back to Flames programming.

Iginla is still my favorite warrior ever.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Did you say that with a straight face?

Guess it depends how you measure "best player". Is it pure offensive skill, fastest skater, most points, ability to put the team on his back and all pull together, regular season or playoff success, how do you compare a forward to a goalie?

Pittsburgh finished the season dead last in 2005, drafted Crosby that summer, and Pittsburgh won the Cup in 2008. He has more playoff points in one season than McDavid does his entire 7 year career, and it's not even close. He completely transformed that franchise.

Skill wise, McDavid may be the greatest ever but Kovalev had alot of skill too. Total package, I'm not sure he eclipses Crosby let alone Gretzky, Lemieux, Roy, Orr....

Guess I don't even hockey......which is true, quit playing a few years ago, the going to bed at 1:00 AM on a weekday got to me after a few years.

Wow, you do not hockey.

No NHL season in 04-05. Lottery was held to determine draft order in 2005. Pittsburgh got the 1st overall pick. Drafted Crosby. Lost in Stanley Cup final in 08 to Detroit. Won it all in 09.

Ovechkin was 1st overall in 2004. With no season that year, Ovechkin and Crosby were both rookies in the 05-06 season. Ovechkin won the Calder.

As for greatest player ever, Orr gets my vote.

[Trochu]

What a great move by Lucic at the end there!

What a start though, 20 games in, granted a few games in hand, but tied for the league lead!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Trochu

What a great move by Lucic at the end there!

What a start though, 20 games in, granted a few games in hand, but tied for the league lead!

Edmonton made fun of Calgary taking Lucic. How is Neal working out.

If you watch Lucic going hard into the corners after pucks…the other team’s players are scared and turn overs occur.

He may not play next year however he is doing well in his role this season.

Nice to see him getting rewarded with some goals. 100% hard work and well earned.

[YYC338]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Edmonton made fun of Calgary taking Lucic. How is Neal working out.

If you watch Lucic going hard into the corners after pucks…the other team’s players are scared and turn overs occur.

He may not play next year however he is doing well in his role this season.

Nice to see him getting rewarded with some goals. 100% hard work and well earned.

Yup, the Soilers thought they stole Neal, turns out they found out what the rest of the league already knew. He's a selfish player who is a stranger to the hard work required to maintain success in this league. With his perceived talent, why did so many teams give up on him? Dallas, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Vegas, Calgary before Edmonton. A player with his skill set could have stuck with one team, if that team thought he was worth it. He just wore out his welcome where ever he went.

He'd never make the play Lucic did tonight on that empty netter. He dive head long trying to reach that puck so he'd get credit for the goal. The funny part is he couldn't put himself in that position to make a play on the puck because he can't even skate as fast as Looch.

Heard an oilers fan call Lucic the worst player in the league while Neal was on Edmonton's roster. Just goes to show how delusional some of them are.
Wouldn't take 3 Neal's for Lucic. One's a cancer, the other is an admired teammate who's respected in the room, for the dirty work and heavy lifting he's done throughout his career.

[fishunter327]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

I did say it with a straight face, and I was speaking purely in terms of skill. Yes. I was very clear. I said nobody has the speed or talent he does, or can do the things he does, at the speeds he does. And you'd like to talk about goal tending as a comparison. Ok.

There are other fantastic players you mentioned, that have better numbers, granted. Those numbers are a reflection of the whole organisation they play for, from the ownership down to the prospects. It's Macro Hockey. That's fine. But on a purely micro level, the individual, please name one player who is faster and more skilled? That was the specific criteria I noted.

Pavel Bure says Hi.

[Twisted Canuck]

Tell him hi back for me.

[sns2]

Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Roderek

The Jets vs Oilers game the other night the 3 broadcasters talking about how more penalties need to be called against Connor during the intermission, then in the third period the Jets were all over the Oilers and the play by play guy says the Refs have put the whistles away and are letting the players decide the outcome like it should be.... WTF!

I didn't watch the game so I can't say if they were warranted good calls or bad, but...

“I don’t think we deserved as many (penalties) as we got,” groused head coach Dave Tippett.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-key-setbacks/

You shouldn't be screaming for more penalties called for your team(player), then complaining when they get called against you.

The Refs do a decent job for managing the games, and I have to say it is probably one of the hardest jobs on the planet. Easy to do with slow motion, replays and close ups. Not so much in real time at full speed, depending on where you are positioned on the ice.

It sucks when your team is on the receiving end of 5 calls, but it happens and you have to deal with it.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Roderek

I didn't watch the game so I can't say if they were warranted good calls or bad, but...

“I don’t think we deserved as many (penalties) as we got,” groused head coach Dave Tippett.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-key-setbacks/

You shouldn't be screaming for more penalties called for your team(player), then complaining when they get called against you.

The Refs do a decent job for managing the games, and I have to say it is probably one of the hardest jobs on the planet. Easy to do with slow motion, replays and close ups. Not so much in real time at full speed, depending on where you are positioned on the ice.

It sucks when your team is on the receiving end of 5 calls, but it happens and you have to deal with it.

Oilers deserved all the penalties they received last night.
Refs were pretty light on the whistle against Dallas though.
But that’s to be expected. Veteran team. Oldest in the league. They got veteran calls. Just the way she rolls.
Happens everywhere not just against the oil. One of the benifits of playing in the league for 15 years. Calls will go your way more often than not.
Moving forward now!

[bessiedog]

Flamers got nothin better to do than talk Oilers….


Heh!

[roper1]

Originally Posted by fishunter327

Pavel Bure says Hi.

I had thought of him as well. Don't forget the clutching & holding Bure dealt with that Connor doesn't!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Flamers got nothin better to do than talk Oilers….


Heh!

As one who wants both teams to do well… I’m intrigued as to what you are not on the Oilers thread saying everything is roses…

Arizona’s first goal… was once again a breakdown in D and a straight shot at close quarters to score on Koskinen.

So far McDavid scored a goal… and had two scored against him while on the ice. So -1 so far.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

As one who wants both teams to do well… I’m intrigued as to what you are not on the Oilers thread saying everything is roses…

Arizona’s first goal… was once again a breakdown in D and a straight shot at close quarters to score on Koskinen.

So far McDavid scored a goal… and had two scored against him while on the ice. So -1 so far.

That’s quite a trick considering Arizona has one goal.

[Talking moose]

And thanks for proving my point on plus minus.
Barrie got caught poaching(joined the rush and got caught. Allowing a 2 on 1 as a result. Numbers can lie.
His fault. But I guess everyone else on the ice pays for it. -1 lol.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

That’s quite a trick considering Arizona has one goal.

McDavid is so bad defensively that when he is on the ice for a goal against, they record it as a -2. -1 for the goal against and -1 for being McDavid.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

McDavid is so bad defensively that when he is on the ice for a goal against, they record it as a -2. -1 for the goal against and -1 for being McDavid.

Pretty sure he isn’t even watching the game. Lol

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by roper1

I had thought of him as well. Don't forget the clutching & holding Bure dealt with that Connor doesn't!

Hahaha.... these comments are better watching comedy central. Did you actually just say McDavid doesn't deal with clutching and holding?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

That’s quite a trick considering Arizona has one goal.

Yup. TSN is slow to update

Draisaitl and McDavid are tearing up the third period. McDavid should be up +2 today.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/event/edmonto...vent_id=167377

And yes… I’m watching delayed. I taped it. Finally caught up.