Who’s in the wrong? (F&W vs. Hunter)

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

So why did you respond to my post with that?

You mentioned the date, so I pointed out given the 2010 date, there was no possible way to be charged for this specific violation for 20 years.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Apparently the CO thought otherwise and dealt with some facts. Hence, the ticket. Maybe she should get a Go Fund Me going.

And COs never make mistakes or jump to false conclusions.

Except, when a CO accused me of trying to take over my dad's trap line because I registered as dad's partner before he registered for the year.
Which the CO claimed would make me senior line holder.

The accusations fell apart when dad showed up and explained that he had told me to go ahead and register, because he had expected to get there before I did.

We don't know what the CO based his decision on, what we do know is that COs are people and people do make mistakes.

Maybe she was in the wrong and maybe it was he that was wrong.
We just don't know.

What I don't get is why we are so quick to pass judgement on our fellow outdoors men and women. More often then not, with nothing to base our judgements on.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

You mentioned the date, so I pointed out given the 2010 date, there was no possible way to be charged for this specific violation for 20 years.

I mentioned only the story of a guy I know who got charged for 4 or 5 years worth of purchased tags because he lied about taking the course.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

I mentioned only the story of a guy I know who got charged for 4 or 5 years worth of purchased tags because he lied about taking the course.

And a person could be charged for up to ten years of holding licenses while not eligible. But given the 2010 date more than that isn't possible.
I do know a person that got charged for applying for NFLD moose for several years after he moved to Alberta, and he was charged for every year he applied. That cost him thousands of dollars.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

And COs never make mistakes or jump to false conclusions.

Except, when a CO accused me of trying to take over my dad's trap line because I registered as dad's partner before he registered for the year.
Which the CO claimed would make me senior line holder.

The accusations fell apart when dad showed up and explained that he had told me to go ahead and register, because he had expected to get there before I did.

We don't know what the CO based his decision on, what we do know is that COs are people and people do make mistakes.

Maybe she was in the wrong and maybe it was he that was wrong.
We just don't know.

What I don't get is why we are so quick to pass judgement on our fellow outdoors men and women. More often then not, with nothing to base our judgements on.

Try giving those same credits to the CO`s. Sure, they can make a mistake, but its rare they will issue a ticket based on an error as they are held accountable for what they do in that regard. Works both ways.

[Dick284]

I’d like to see her first WIN Card application, I’m betting she checked the completed the course box, and NOT the I’ve held a licence prior box.

[James M]

Here’s another one straight from RELM itself when creating a new account

[James M]

Something I’m surprised no one has mentioned yet (unless I missed it), is she only ever met the definition of “first time hunter” in 2008 when she got her first tag. As soon as 2009 hit, she had now previously held a licence in Alberta or elsewhere, exempting her from the first time hunter requirements for every year afterwards. As long as you get away with not having the course your first year, you’re covered every year after.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by James M

Something I’m surprised no one has mentioned yet (unless I missed it), is she only ever met the definition of “first time hunter” in 2008 when she got her first tag. As soon as 2009 hit, she had now previously held a licence in Alberta or elsewhere, exempting her from the first time hunter requirements for every year afterwards. As long as you get away with not having the course your first year, you’re covered every year after.

If you have never legally held a license in the first place, every year is another violation.

[CMichaud]

OK think I figured out the 2010 date and the reason they refer to have previously hunted.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/995b...egulations.pdf

From 2010 Hunting Regs Minister's Message

This year, all first-time hunters must successfully complete the Alberta
Conservation and Hunter Education Course before hunting in our
province.

In the 2010 regs it also states:

Notice: As of 2010, the Alberta Hunter Competency Exam is no
longer offered. Subject to any exceptions noted in this guide,
first-time hunters (adult and youth) must successfully complete
the Alberta Conservation and Hunter Education course.

Licensing Requirements for First Time Hunters:

A first-time hunter is a hunter who 1) has not previously held a hunting
licence in Alberta or elsewhere, or 2) has not passed a hunter competency
test in Alberta or elsewhere, or 3) has not successfully completed a hunter
education course in Alberta or elsewhere.

My read is that if you held a hunting license in Alberta or elsewhere before 2010 you are not a first time hunter, ergo not required to have completed a course.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

And what did he teach her? To not trust F&W to be reasonable perhaps?
To fear them for sure.

What do you think she'll do in the future if she sees someone poaching? If I were her I wouldn't report it, because I could wind up being charged for some other mistake I made.

Clearly she made a mistake. If she were trying to get away with anything she would not have readily admitted she had not passed the course. That's not how law breakers operate.

Good law enforcement is about more then enforcing the letter of the law.
The intent of the law must also be considered.

Exactly this!!!

[RandyBoBandy]

Dayuum, I took the course in 1975 in PE30, from Red Hasse. Still have that big RED book, be darned if I could find the certificate One of our classes was learning how to use shotguns..Imagine that today

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by RandyBoBandy

Dayuum, I took the course in 1975 in PE30, from Red Hasse. Still have that big RED book, be darned if I could find the certificate One of our classes was learning how to use shotguns..Imagine that today

If u can find even you wallet card or a copy of your high school transcript AHEA will issue you a current numbered cert. That is what I did in 2016 when I needed proof to get a hunting license in Hawaii and I passed mine in 1969 and all I had was the wallet card because I took mine at the Edm Fish and Game office on tower road in edmonton. Never put the number on the Alberta system as I have had a license since then and didn't need to prove I had passed the course or that I had been an instructor for years.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I’d like to see her first WIN Card application, I’m betting she checked the completed the course box, and NOT the I’ve held a licence prior box.

They actually keep these applications on record...

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If you have never legally held a license in the first place, every year is another violation.

This...

You don’t get a free pass if you exploit a loop hole!

LC

[Moosetalker]

My kids I took in to challenge the FTH test as soon as they hit legal hunting age. last one took it in 1999.

Wife took hers in 1996 with my eldest when he was 12 I think it was the
"If ya Cant beat em Join em retort". triggered her back then.

I took the course in 1972 Grade 7 Science Mr Woods. Balwin school, Edmonton.

Only Primary school science course I ever took that netted me a 'A' with 98% as a final test result. Crappy picture of a goose to identify tripped me up.

Otherwise bein as I spent the rest of the time staring out the window just scraped thru thanks to Art an phys Ed.

Book and Crest no certificate And No records from that far back when I last inquired.

[Dewey Cox]

I wonder if this thread will cause a flood of inquiries to AHEIA on monday...

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by Dean2

You guys also need to learn to read. If she really has been licensed since 2008 then she did not need to take the course to be eligible to buy further hunting licenses, and the truly stupid part, if she had a single hunting license anywhere outside Alberta she is eligible to buy a license here without taking the course even now. You are confusing poorly thought out government regulations with something that actually makes sense.

This!

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

I wonder if this thread will cause a flood of inquiries to AHEIA on monday...

And I wonder how many will be surprised to know that there is no record of them ever taking the course.

Looking at my old copies of regs 2014 was the first year that it is was required to provide a certificate number with a WIN application for first time hunters. Not sure if there are any records past that.

Chances are if you took the course, have been hunting for a while, and don't have your card you have no more proof than the OP's friend that you filled out the WIN application honestly.

[urcayuse]

Originally Posted by Jjolg123

Except for the fact when they got their win they said yes to having taking a course here or elsewhere. If you try and work around the system because a 100 course is to much effort then you deserve the penalty when caught.

That’s not how I remember it when I first got a WIN. IIRC the only requirement was to have previously held a license.

[Popcan]

Originally Posted by keeks

That's a greasy move.

Ultra greasy !! prik

[Faststeel]

I took the Hunter Training course when I was a kid, but I have no way of proving it....?

[Robins36]

This exact reason is why I took the course again! Back in 1993, I took a hunters ed course through my school in our outdoor ed class. When I called AHEIA, they told me that there were no records prior to when they started storing the certificates electronically. I retook the course because I had no proof of completing the course previously.

Call it a money grab or whatever you want... $70 is way cheaper than having to hire a lawyer, cheaper than the fine, cheaper than having to take time off work to deal with this issue...

[waterhaulerhunter]

So in 2008 when she bought her first Alberta license had she ever held a hunting license anywhere else? And obviously she had never taken the hunter Ed course either or this wouldn’t be an issue. So if she hadn’t taken the course or held a license elsewhere than she lied on her WIN application and has been purchasing tags illegally for 12 years. The whole 2010 thing is moot if you weren’t even legal before that.

And to the guys that have been hunting for 40 yrs and have not taken the course and are legally buying tags this is not the same thing. I’ve been hunting since 2002ish and took the course at our school in 98 and I remember having to check the box for my WIN that I took the course.

[Jjolg123]

Originally Posted by urcayuse

That’s not how I remember it when I first got a WIN. IIRC the only requirement was to have previously held a license.

This was a copy of the 2007 revision prior was different I believe

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[coyotecaller]

Instead of giving her a fine, they should’ve just made her take the course.

[savageguy model 111]

Originally Posted by James M

Scenario. Who’s in the wrong?

“Hunter” has never taken the hunters Ed course. She has purchased licences annually back to 2008. Someone on Facebook tells her she’s hunting illegally for not having the course. The hunting regs say only a “first time hunter” needs the course and by their own definition she is not a first time hunter, so wouldn’t require it. Hunter calls the Smoky Lake F&W office to inquire, and Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person (red flag). She goes in the next day and Tree Cop gives her a $120 ticket for holding/applying for a licence while ineligible. He takes it a step further and voids her purchased 2020 deer tag and freezes her AlbertaRELM account until she passes a hunters Ed course. Who’s in the wrong?

WOW I bet she wish she never called.

Mr. Possum Cop tells her to go in person the next day to discuss in person

she drove into see them wow i would of told them to come see me my truck is broke . She should of waited until after the season to make it right.

[elkchaser]

Ridiculous post , if you haven’t taken hunter safety you shouldn’t be in the field unless your a bystander along to learn . Enough accidents happen with people who have taken it . I have unfortunately witnessed enough stupid things in the field to believe that there should refresher course . When ranchers lose cows and horses to inexperienced and ignorant hunters you have to wonder what is going on . Education and good mentors are the key.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by coyotecaller

Instead of giving her a fine, they should’ve just made her take the course.

That sounds reasonable to me.

After all she wasn't trying to hide anything, and was buying licenses.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by coyotecaller

Instead of giving her a fine, they should’ve just made her take the course.

Unless she lied on her WIN application. We don't know the details.