Veterinarians Vote to Ban Surgeries for Pets

[Muller]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Is it common for dogs to break their tails in the bush? I heard 1 in 200 or 300 but no idea if that’s all dogs or just working dogs. Anyone have a dog break their tail?

Common? Don’t know.
Ever had it happen, yeah.
I pondered destroying a very good hound that I owned, because his tail would not heal.
Blood everywhere, I mean every, every time he came anywhere near me.
The vet tried twice to cauterize it, no good.......

I had another lurcher dog (bitch) tear a dew claw off why running in some long grass, that was eventually put down because she never healed up right.
Don’t listen to the guys that’s had a pet or two in 40 years.
I’ve hunted with dogs for near 50 years, owned more than most have petted, and yes **** happens.
I will carry on docking my pups and removing dew claws when needed.
At two or three days old it is nothing but a whine, a suck on mom and done.
As a mature animal, it is amputation.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Muller

Common? Don’t know.
Ever had it happen, yeah.
I pondered destroying a very good hound that I owned, because his tail would not heal.
Blood everywhere, I mean every, every time he came anywhere near me.
The vet tried twice to cauterize it, no good.......

I had another lurcher dog (bitch) tear a dew claw off why running in some long grass, that was eventually put down because she never healed up right.
Don’t listen to the guys that’s had a pet or two in 40 years.
I’ve hunted with dogs for near 50 years, owned more than most have petted, and yes **** happens.
I will carry on docking my pups and removing dew claws when needed.
At two or three days old it is nothing but a whine, a suck on mom and done.
As a mature animal, it is amputation.

Thank you for the reply. Had a feeling it was more common than what the stat I heard on the radio said. I don’t know anyone that has a hunting dog so I was curious how bad the problem is. Definitely sounds like it is a very serious one though. Makes sense to dock the tail and remove the dew claws on a working dog. City dogs I am assuming tail would be for show but I imagine the dew claw can always be ripped.

[KGB]

Docking the tails and removing the dew claw is a very simple procedure that takes les then 5 min for all. It is best done in the first 2 days because there is no nerve endings in the tail and there is no hard bones there, just a cartilage. As I mentioned before, the risk to the animal is about the same as to yourself when you are cutting your finger nails. One quick stitch on a tail and claws, a drop of iodine - and that’s it!
The ear cropping is totally different and way more complicated. Starting with the fact that the animal has to go down completely, there is no local anesthesia possible. The recovery process is also way longer and requires a special care. If it’s not done properly, the ears can get infected and then all hell can break loose. This procedure has to be done at a vet hospital. If the local hillbillies will start doing it in their garage- they will kill the dog!

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Is it common for dogs to break their tails in the bush? I heard 1 in 200 or 300 but no idea if that’s all dogs or just working dogs. Anyone have a dog break their tail?

I have a Lab that is 7 years old and has no hair on the last 2 inches of her tail because of constant injury over the years. It frequently bleeds. I keep my fingers crossed that it will not get infection or other complication one of these times and need amputation.

I've never seen anyone have a problem with a Cocker, Springer, GSP, Wirehair, Brittany..... because they have their tails docked.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Is it common for dogs to break their tails in the bush? I heard 1 in 200 or 300 but no idea if that’s all dogs or just working dogs. Anyone have a dog break their tail?

Yup....little bend in the mid section of the tail....was a puppy when that happened.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yup....little bend in the mid section of the tail....was a puppy when that happened.

Happens often enough by the sounds of it. Looks like another law to apply to the common city folk that doesn’t hunt while the guys with dogs that need it done turn into criminals.

[omega50]

Hmm. Medically unnecessary procedures will be banned.

Perhaps the hunting dog folks need to find Religious Reasons to justify the procedures

[whiteout]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

A buddy had to have this done to his barky Great Pyrenees or the City of Calgary would have seized his dog. Now the city may have to rewrite their own bylaw to match the provincial vets?

Calgary Bylaw Services issued an order that he devocalize a dog? Or was his dog simply barking so much that he chose the easy way out instead of training it when they told him they’d actually enforce the bylaw?

[Big Grey Wolf]

We always docked our springer pups. Sharp sterilized sissors, snip, peroxide then 5 mintes later fast asleep, never knew it happened.

[oldgutpile]

This could be the same thing as the Alberta Fish and Game voting on a resolution. It's all nice and dandy that they agree to stop doing it, but there is nothing to say this is being passed as legislation in the province.
Until such time as actual legislation is passed, this is just a "feel-good" measure to placate all the snowflakes out there!
My bet is that there will always be a vet out there willing to perform these operations until such time as it passes law.

[nitro]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

This could be the same thing as the Alberta Fish and Game voting on a resolution. It's all nice and dandy that they agree to stop doing it, but there is nothing to say this is being passed as legislation in the province.
Until such time as actual legislation is passed, this is just a "feel-good" measure to placate all the snowflakes out there!
My bet is that there will always be a vet out there willing to perform these operations until such time as it passes law.

Ask and thee shall receive.
What worries me in this is not just the no docking cropping etc but also who gets to interpret what physiological harm is .All breeder will have to be licensed and parts the whole thing are very vague
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fe9...D3XwNoTrfjcFP8

[nitro]

Also going to repost this here ,Its not just about cropping and docking and dewclaws


Kayla Baxter
Yesterday at 10:01 AM
Here’s why Alberta’s ban on vets performing ear cropping, tail docking and dewclaw removal matters. It’s never just about the issue at hand, it’s how that issue came to be, the forces tied to it, and what it means for the future. In a time when animal rights extremists are everywhere and Adopt Don’t Shop is being shoved down everyone’s throat, let’s take a second to look at what’s actually going on here.

You have greyhound racing banned in Florida, and the average pet owner cheers that those poor dogs aren’t being forced to run anymore.

You have timed dog sports like agility and lure coursing banned and the average pet owner cheers because those poor dogs don’t have to perform for peoples’ entertainment anymore.

You have states banning hunting and field trials and the average pet owner cheers that those poor dogs aren’t being forced to work with cruel hunters anymore.

You have a province trying to ban certain training tools and training styles and the average pet owner cheers because they would never use those cruel methods on their pet.

You have every province except for one that’s banned crop and dock and the average pet owner cheers because dogs shouldn’t be mutilated to suit owner’s preference.

You have places trying to impose mandatory spay and neuter by six months old and the average pet owner cheers because breeding shouldn’t be happening and adopt don’t shop.

You have PETA showing up at dog shows putting dogs in danger, but the average pet owner cheers because those poor dogs shouldn’t be forced to participate in beauty pageants and have no life.

The average pet owner isn’t going to care when the AR extremists push for dog sports to be banned because we’re making dogs compete for our entertainment. They won’t care when dog sledding is banned because those poor dogs have to pull that sled so far in the snow. They won’t care when service dogs are banned because those dogs are forced to work all day. They won’t care when it’s next to impossible for a responsible breeder to produce a litter because of regulation, because people should be adopting instead of shopping.

They might start to notice when all that’s left are poor representations of the breeds, the ones being produced from the backyard breeders who don’t care about the regulations and restrictions that pushed ethical breeders away. When these puppies grow up to be sickly dogs riddled with the health issues the ethical breeders would have tested for, or lack the correct temperament that the ethical breeders worked so hard for by working and showing their dogs.

They might start to notice when their only option for adding a dog to their family is a shelter dog with more baggage than they are prepared to handle.

By the time the AR extremists start pushing to end pet ownership (which is absolutely PETA’s goal) and the average pet owner takes notice and is shocked and appalled because they love their dog so much, there will be nobody left to fight for them. All of the breeders, hunters, dog sport competitors, mushers, service dog handlers, breed preservationists, etc are already gone because the average pet owner turned their back on them.

So no, Alberta banning ear cropping, tail docking and dew claw removal may not have any impact at all on the life of the average pet owner, and they may support it, but it’s never just about one issue. Maybe the average pet owner needs to look down at the labrador, golden retriever or German Shepherd at their feet and think about what went into developing the breed the love. The herding and hunting and working that AR extremists want to end. It all ties together and is a slippery slope and it’s going to end with you, average pet owner.

*permission to share far and wide*

[Fish along]

Originally Posted by roper1

I know a lab & a Dane this happens regularly, like couple times a year. I do think a vet would dock them, even now, it is a health issue. Just a clueless owner prefers washing blood off the walls......

Though I've not done this my self ,I've heard it said that you can dock a dogs tail by just putting a rubber band on it. Cuts off the circulation and it falls of.

[alacringa]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

So I guess those who are still intent on such procedures will simply have to cross to another province or down to the USA to get it done....?

Word on the street is there will be exceptions forthcoming. Several groups within the hunting dog community lobbied for our breeds to be excluded from the ban, so here's hoping. It should be noted that at this time, this legislation applies only to vets. Breeders who do their own tail docking will not be affected...yet.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Fish along

Though I've not done this my self ,I've heard it said that you can dock a dogs tail by just putting a rubber band on it. Cuts off the circulation and it falls of.

Wrong. That’s how you can castrate the bull. The tail has a bone(vertebrae) in it and inside the bone there are nerves and blood vessels.The rubber band will cause necrosis of the skin and infection.

[huntinstuff]

My Yorkie has no teeth, so he carries a knife. Zero issues.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by KGB

Wrong. That’s how you can castrate the bull. The tail has a bone(vertebrae) in it and inside the bone there are nerves and blood vessels.The rubber band will cause necrosis of the skin and infection.

Do sheep not have bone in their tail? Isn’t this how their tails are docked?

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by KGB

Wrong. That’s how you can castrate the bull. The tail has a bone(vertebrae) in it and inside the bone there are nerves and blood vessels.The rubber band will cause necrosis of the skin and infection.

Not wrong at all. It is a common way that a lot of breeders do their docking. I prefer a scalpel and skin glue, but to each their own. There are no issues whatsoever with infection or necrosis with banding tails at 2 to 3 days of age.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Not wrong at all. It is a common way that a lot of breeders do their docking. I prefer a scalpel and skin glue, but to each their own. There are no issues whatsoever with infection or necrosis with banding tails at 2 to 3 days of age.

My understanding was that this procedure is done to the adult dog, not a newborn pup. I guess you can do it on a pup, I just don’t see the reason why to take chances. It’s much easier with a pair of sharp scissors and you can use a regular needle if you don’t have a surgical handy.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Do sheep not have bone in their tail? Isn’t this how their tails are docked?

To be honest with you, I have never heard about people docking sheep tails....
I removed a lot of sheep’s, piglets and bulls testicles in my “previous” life many years ago but never heard about tails.
But I don’t know everything, lol!

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by KGB

To be honest with you, I have never heard about people docking sheep tails....
I removed a lot of sheep’s, piglets and bulls testicles in my “previous” life many years ago but never heard about tails.
But I don’t know everything, lol!

That seems weird, seeing that one source states 80% of lambs are docked in the US. I always thought it was 100%, but apparently hair sheep don't need docking and there are a few breeds with naturally short tails. Banding between 24 hours and a week old is by far the most common method.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by KGB

My understanding was that this procedure is done to the adult dog, not a newborn pup. I guess you can do it on a pup, I just don’t see the reason why to take chances. It’s much easier with a pair of sharp scissors and you can use a regular needle if you don’t have a surgical handy.

Not sure what you think you would be taking a chance with. It's a pretty risk free procedure. I just didn't like the waiting for the dead tail to eventually fall off part.

[britman101]

One has to wonder about some of these decisions and why vets bother making such a hulla baloo about it. Because they are considered livestock, not much is said about it, but what about the dehorning of animals such as goats. It is done for safety reasons, especially if you have other livestock around. Believe me not much fun for the young goat but they get over it pretty quick, and are up and running around in no time flat.