View Poll Results: Penetration or expansion?
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Penetration
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57.63% |
Expansion
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50 |
42.37% |
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12-17-2018, 08:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMX
Just curious if anyone has recovered a mono from a deer to prove they don’t t open on smaller game. I’ve shot several deer that had the lungs turned to soup and haven’t got one back yet.
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If it’s not expanding your probably not finding it in the animal
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12-18-2018, 12:05 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,824
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Today's bullets are very well constructed for the most part....I fling out a 100 gr hornady BTSP interlock at 3300 FPS and one shot kills, devastating holes in and out....can't believe what that little pill does to bone and internals etc
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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12-18-2018, 12:51 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgill808
Wife wants both
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Hahahaha Hope you can give both .
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12-18-2018, 01:24 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41thunder
If it’s not expanding your probably not finding it in the animal
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So any bullet that is a pass through fails to expand then or just mono’s?
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12-18-2018, 06:43 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie
150 Grain Nosler BALISTIC tip from the 7 STW...One shot kill with exit and entry wound through the lungs...huge body bull.
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This is why you have to be careful of what you take at face value. I have also used the 7mm 150gr BT and had one absolutely come apart on a WT buck when launched from a 7mm Mashburn. No exit. Buyer beware.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-18-2018, 06:47 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41thunder
If it’s not expanding your probably not finding it in the animal
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I have shot a few animals with Barnes bullets and field dress some I did not shoot .
All were pass throughs and you could clearly tell that the bullets had expanded .
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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12-18-2018, 06:47 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMX
Just curious if anyone has recovered a mono from a deer to prove they don’t t open on smaller game. I’ve shot several deer that had the lungs turned to soup and haven’t got one back yet.
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I have held three in my hand that did not expand. So yes. I also have a collection of recovered ones that did expand.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-18-2018, 07:02 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
For Accubond long range bullets, I'm curious what your maximum velocity of a hit has been and how did the bullet hold together. Nosler advertises much lower velocities for expansion, and i wonder about reliability for those extremely close distances high speed hits.
Ive seen videos that show they are fine up at even 3400fps, but I'm interested in any one else's additional info.
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I shot a bull Elk through the ribs with a 180 gr accubond at 30 yds with a 300 wm. Velocity was just over 3000 fps at muzzle. Through both lungs and caught a tiny bit of the top of the heart and exited. It broke one rib on entrance and two on exit. Bullet was not recovered. Elk fell over inside of 50 yds
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12-18-2018, 07:17 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessed1
I shot a bull Elk through the ribs with a 180 gr accubond at 30 yds with a 300 wm. Velocity was just over 3000 fps at muzzle. Through both lungs and caught a tiny bit of the top of the heart and exited. It broke one rib on entrance and two on exit. Bullet was not recovered. Elk fell over inside of 50 yds
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The Accubond LR is a different bullet than the standard Accubond. I have dressed moose and deer shot with the 129gr Accubond LR, but the cartridge was the 6.5x55, with a muzzle velocity of just over 2800fps. They held together very well.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-18-2018, 07:19 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,978
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__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-18-2018, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I have held three in my hand that did not expand. So yes. I also have a collection of recovered ones that did expand.
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Ahh thank you Chuck seeing is believing. I haven’t run into it yet and have taken lots of game with gmx’s and a few with tsx. If I notice an exit hole that appears to not have opened I’ll be switching back to Hornady interlocks/interbond
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12-18-2018, 08:38 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
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Nice knife
Knives of Alaska?
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12-18-2018, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 4,278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
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There are more rand a few pictures likes this on various website - including 2 taken from a grizzly on the huntingbc forum.
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12-18-2018, 09:06 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
Nice knife
Knives of Alaska?
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Yes
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-18-2018, 09:59 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,144
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Penetration or Expansion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
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I’ve seen pics like this before. All of them have bent tips indicating they tumbled. Which only leaves more questions. Why did they tumble? Were they only marginally stable leaving the rifle? Was the twist rate sufficient for the length of the bullet and velocity? Did they encounter something ahead of the animal that caused it to tumble? Hard angling shot? Something else?
I’ve only shot about 30-35 head of game with the tsx and ttsx and they’ve been very efficient killers. Some of the wound channels that didn’t encounter any serious resistance were of smaller diameter then an equivalent “traditional” bullet but they’ve all expanded and they all killed what I hit with them.
OP to answer your question. I want enough penetration to get to the good stuff and enough expansion to kill the animal quickly while the bullets going through. This isn’t a “one or the other” type question even though it was asked that way. A guy needs both.
I’ve seen elk stop 180 grain cup and core bullets on the front leg with no chest penetration. I had an elk stop a 165 grain .308 accubond in his spine with no exit wound. I also had a doe mule deer stop a 165 grain .308 accubond on the front leg without anything penetrating her chest and it required a follow up shot. That was where I decided to choose a heavier bullet or one with a different design because I wasn’t happy with that performance. I killed all of those animals and nothing got away but I knew it wasn’t optimal performance under a variety of circumstances. Let’s face it, that’s what hunting is... a variety of circumstances. Best to prepare yourself for success across the largest set of possible situations.
Some have said they will shoot any cup/core and just take their time and make good shots. Yea that’s one option. It’s similar to taking a marginal caliber/cartridge for the task. Your just more limited. I don’t like limitations so I would rather choose something that gives me more options for shot angles. Bullet design is a cheap and easy way to change how effectively your going to kill.
I’ve only recovered one Barnes, a 180 grain in .308
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12-18-2018, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 150
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For that 308 (or any in that class) the fore mentioned AB in 165 grain will do the job on any critter you'd typically hunt for the 250 yard and closer we do.
I use a 139 Interbond for my 7x57 and never had a bullet not do an in and out.
I used to use a plain 139 Hornady spire points and had the same results.
Guess I got lured away by the marketing team LOL.
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12-18-2018, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 73
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I think you just use what works for you. I have seen weird results in most manufactures. I have had 225 gr Barns X not completely penetrate mule deer at 175 yards from a 340wby. 200 grain Sierra from 300win bend like a banana on an elk shoulder. 200 grain accubonds blow up on Moose fired from 300 Ultra... I tend to use what just shoots the best out of my rifle and stick to it, As I have had great results as well from the above manufactures.
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12-18-2018, 04:30 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 255
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Seeing is believing. Last year I had an interesting hit. Long story short was presented with a running texas heart shot and took it. Shooting a 6.5x284 140gr Berger VLD.
Bullet entered the rear quarter about 3" left of the anus and a bit on an angle into the animal. Bullet did what it was designed to do, penetrate 5-6 inches then expand. Substantial damage was done to guts, liver and surprisingly both lungs and even had a small gash in the heart. Was surprised to find decent chunks of jacket further up where the rib cavity starts narrow down to neck on both the left and right side of the buck. Was very pleased with those results however I would not expect the same results after contacting bone or in the same situation.
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12-18-2018, 05:43 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,343
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And so we come full circle.
Success stories from all camps, failures or less then optimal results from all camps.
Looks to me like the best advice is;
Practice, practice, practice, use what works for you, and know your limitations and your rifle.cartridges limitations.
Oh yeah, and say hi and shake hands with the guy using what you won't use.
Merry Christmas everyone.
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Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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12-18-2018, 05:54 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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If there’s one thing that’s certain about Hunting, it’s that every single hunt is a separate set of circumstances, nothing is a given, anything can happen, and with any luck the chips will land in your favor.
My most successful bullet to date is a ballistic tip. According to what I’ve read, it’s an anomaly.
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12-20-2018, 07:45 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Airdrie
Posts: 2,389
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If I had to choose between the 2 I would normally go with penetration, an exit wound is nice for tracking an animal. Good thing several bullets provide a bit of both.
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12-20-2018, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
You might not believe this, but I agree with you. The accubonds, both regular and the long range variety have proven to be my all round favorite choice in a Hunting bullet. They penetrate, expand, and have a good ballistic coefficient. It’s almost like a partition and a ballistic tip had a baby imo.
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I have really been eyeing the ABLRs up. Not only are they CHEAPER then the normal ABs, the BC and extra weight helps push more energy further out.
I shoot a 7mm-08 and the 150 ABLR looks like a great fit. I would only be shooting them at 2700fps but that still keeps 1500ftlbs to 400 yards. I’ve had some bad luck on deer with the normal ABs so hoping the ABLRs will be more violent but still penetrate well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
If there’s one thing that’s certain about Hunting, it’s that every single hunt is a separate set of circumstances, nothing is a given, anything can happen, and with any luck the chips will land in your favor.
My most successful bullet to date is a ballistic tip. According to what I’ve read, it’s an anomaly.
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Lol yah I think some guys either had a bad experience with the early BTs or just repeat stories from the early BTs. Maybe they haven’t changed them all over to the new design but I have seen cross sections of all the 7mm BTs and they are no joke. Deer just drop and I’ve heard them passing through elk and moose. I’ve been tempted to try them on elk but want the reassurance of a bonded core. Hopefully the ABLR is a better performer with my mild velocities.
Last edited by thundergrey; 12-20-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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12-20-2018, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,286
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If you are willing to do a bit of reading this website has extensive information on bullet performance in real life hunting situations. Lots of actual photos etc. There is also a very long article that covers well the considerations in bullet design and construction for effective hunting bullets. Far more info than a guy would be willing to type out as an answer to this question.
Like most, I believe you need penetration and expansion for the optimal job. Ideally it should not be one or the other.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...e+Killing.html
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