Westjet - the downfall

[rmatei]

Originally Posted by hal53

Yet another good company headed to the toilet due to union demands... very unfortunate

Agree. Used to be a great airline but the typical union rhetoric will cause this one to lose it's "preferred" status. Customers will pay the price down the road and probably we will see either one airline in Canada again or the government will hand over taxpayer dollars like they did with Air Canada and CP air years ago.

[Puma]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

^This. I saw the original CEO/Founder speak at a business event around five years ago, luncheon type thing. He did not have nice things to say about the direction of Westjet after he left and he basically said the same thing as above.

Dont kid yourself, Clive is still the Chair of the Board of Directors and it is still very much his airline. Just ask Saretsky .. oh yeah, he ****ed off Clive and got retired....

[graybeard]

Originally Posted by hal53

Yet another good company headed to the toilet due to union demands... very unfortunate

.....and you have to know Notley's husband, Lou ARAB, isn't far away.....??

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...our-union-role

[roughneckin]

All union contracts have ways of disposing of garbage employees through written reprimands to documented conversations. The issue becomes that the leadership doesn’t want to bother and let’s people get away with garbage. If leadership did their jobs and weeded out the dillweeds with the correct measures there is no issue, but they all like the idea of just firing people on the spot. Unions work if leaders make it happen. WestJet can do it right or not. Up to them.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by roughneckin

All union contracts have ways of disposing of garbage employees through written reprimands to documented conversations. The issue becomes that the leadership doesn’t want to bother and let’s people get away with garbage. If leadership did their jobs and weeded out the dillweeds with the correct measures there is no issue, but they all like the idea of just firing people on the spot. Unions work if leaders make it happen. WestJet can do it right or not. Up to them.

I seem to remember that this unionized postal worker still has a job......
https://www.surreynowleader.com/news...er-goes-viral/

[catnthehat]

What many people do not realize is that just because one union runs by certain rules and has a certain agreement, it dies not mean that all unions have the same rules and agreements such as vacation time , seniority clauses or pay scales fir that matter .
They can all be very different depending on the union
Cat

[Off in the Bushes]

In the end it is an agreement that both the employee and the employer agree to, so that compensation is adequate for both parties.
I think it the share holder that makes it difficult for the company as they always want returns and increased profits. To the point that the fat has been trimmed until it results in a labor strike. Labor is likely the only fixed cost so its the easiest to attack when fuel swings we bear that cost but for some one to make a descent living and have disposable cash to feed that commerce machine, much like you when flying for personal stuff.

[67ZL1]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

The airline industry is very competitive and margins are tight. If WestJet can’t pay its pilots the same as their competition, they should stay out of that market. Sounds like WJ wants to undercut prices on the backs of their employees ... that being their strategy to grab a share of the market. If operating too close to the margin results in financial trouble and bankruptcy ... no one wins. EDIT: They should thank the union

You wouldn’t know that the airlines were hurting with the prices they charge us for flights within Canada. Pretty sad you can fly to Europe for the same price as flying to T.O. Hopefully NAFTA negotiations will open up the airline industry up here along with other things.

[caduddin]

Originally Posted by 67ZL1

You wouldn’t know that the airlines were hurting with the prices they charge us for flights within Canada. Pretty sad you can fly to Europe for the same price as flying to T.O. Hopefully NAFTA negotiations will open up the airline industry up here along with other things.

I immigrated here in 2004, i haven't seen much of the Great White North, mainly due to flight costs, there's places i'd love to visit, but when the 'vacation' works out more than an all-inclusive week to Mexico it's a hard sell to stay within. FlairAir is starting to imitate what RyanAir does to Ireland, so maybe it's not too far off.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by 67ZL1

You wouldn’t know that the airlines were hurting with the prices they charge us for flights within Canada. Pretty sad you can fly to Europe for the same price as flying to T.O. Hopefully NAFTA negotiations will open up the airline industry up here along with other things.

Most of us are pretty oblivious to what goes into pricing flights ...and you are right about flights within Canada being expensive. One of the reasons for that is the airport fees which are typically related to the cost of operating the airport. So, an airport like Edm or Toronto which are undergoing extensive “improvements” are expensive places to take off from or to land. I don’t know the actual $$$ cost to take off or land, but if it is $10,000 on each end ...140 passengers on a 737 have already parted with a fair chunk of change that is not directly related to the flight like staff, fuel, baggage.....etc.
Now, if the aircraft was landing in Amsterdam, the airport fee may only be $5,000.00 because it is not doing any expansion and have a lot more flights coming in to pay the bills.
Anyone thinking airlines are a gravy train should buy some stock so they could cash in...

[petew]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

What many people do not realize is that just because one union runs by certain rules and has a certain agreement, it dies not mean that all unions have the same rules and agreements such as vacation time , seniority clauses or pay scales fir that matter .
They can all be very different depending on the union
Cat

And it is seen as atrocious here that the pilots are upset because they are being replaced by cheap foreign pilots.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Most of us are pretty oblivious to what goes into pricing flights ...and you are right about flights within Canada being expensive. One of the reasons for that is the airport fees which are typically related to the cost of operating the airport. So, an airport like Edm or Toronto which are undergoing extensive “improvements” are expensive places to take off from or to land. I don’t know the actual $$$ cost to take off or land, but if it is $10,000 on each end ...140 passengers on a 737 have already parted with a fair chunk of change that is not directly related to the flight like staff, fuel, baggage.....etc.
Now, if the aircraft was landing in Amsterdam, the airport fee may only be $5,000.00 because it is not doing any expansion and have a lot more flights coming in to pay the bills.
Anyone thinking airlines are a gravy train should buy some stock so they could cash in...

Actually I did buy Westjet stock in the 90's with the idea that as a non union company they stood a good chance at bypassing all the stupid downfalls that their competition has to endure. It has been a good buy, but it's looking like it will soon be sold.

[The Cook]

Good to see the "old regulars" bashing unions, as we all know corporations love and care about their employees more than they care about their bottom line.

[Newview01]

Ok, wise ones, what is the real problem here?

[bat119]

The media has won the war when it comes to firearms and unions they are always bad. The antigun crowd has been conditioned for a negative response no what the situation even if it makes no sense. Unions are always bad because these thugs are holding their employers for ransom, another conditioned response after decades of media bad press.
There are always two sides to every story, very rarely does the public that has no dog in the fight look at both sides.

[Mr Conservation]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

So, an airport like Edm or Toronto which are undergoing extensive “improvements” are expensive places to take off from or to land.

As far back as I can remember, most of the airports in Canada served by Air Canada and Westjet, amongst other carriers, are undergoing "improvements". That is why we have been paying an "airport improvement fee" for all these years. We are now paying "security fees", numerous other fees, and taxes. On a recent trip to Mexico, over half of the fare went to the various fees and taxes.

Mr Conservation

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Mr Conservation

As far back as I can remember, most of the airports in Canada served by Air Canada and Westjet, amongst other carriers, are undergoing "improvements". That is why we have been paying an "airport improvement fee" for all these years. We are now paying "security fees", numerous other fees, and taxes. On a recent trip to Mexico, over half of the fare went to the various fees and taxes.
Mr Conservation

Yes, which tells you that the airline is benefiting from less than half of the ticket price. That breakdown on the ticket price was an initiative on the part of airlines to show customers the real cost of flying.

[KGB]

All these taxes and fees are total bs! A few months ago I was buying the tickets to Europe. Guess what? Compare the flights for air canada or WestJet with the European airlines and what do you see? Oh yeah, the taxes and fees are totally different for the same flight for different airlines! But the ticket price is the same!! If I would’ve bought air canada -$2800 per ticket! I booked the Condor airline which is a low cost version of Lufthansa and it was half price for my itinerary!
It pays to shop around and check more than one website.

[dgrimard]

I have a question for everyone...

With all the airline talk and union discusions What is a fare wage for people in the air line industry?

Everyone want to fly for the cheapest cost possible and i get that but the company has set cost factor. Fuel, maintenance and wages being the 3 biggest
costs to a company it is easy to cut one but you can't chop the other 2.
This is why in general unions are good for airlines.
I do believe i heard a company makes just 2cents/ seat mile that is filled.

Company's do well because of employees

I could go on but I think a union has its place some companies need it some don't but will eventually due to change in the culteir of the company.

(ps sorry for spelling mistakes)

[ATF]

WestJet started going downhill years ago. It had nothing to do with unions. When they introduced a baggage fee despite record profits they lost my loyalty.
Said they needed to do that because everyone else was.
Everything is an extra charge with them and it's all about the money because every one else does it.
So guess what. Pay the pilots like everyone else and all will be good.