Precision Rifle - Definition

[260 Rem]

Clearly, performance needs to be a prime consideration. Forget the manufacture’s label or a wonder group.
Obviously, there are two levels of “precision” and for the purpose of this thread I will exclude “Bench rest” performance which would call for consistency under 0.25 MOA and might typically be shot using wide, flat bottomed fore-stocks.

IMO, a sporter style precision rifle deserves the handle only AFTER it has proven capable of::: three consecutive 5 shot groups at 100yds/m, each measuring under .5 MOA C-to-C with at least one group being sub 0.4 MOA....AND...one ten shot group at 300yds/m measuring less than .5 MOA C-to-C.

What do you think...too stringent...not stringent enough?

[Nyksta]

Its not the rifle. Its a rifle and shooter combo. Who cares what label your rifle carries. People should know their accuracy skills and the characteristics of their equipment. If they want to compete in a competition then let them compete. All this labelling is for bickering and egos. Go shoot and have fun.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

Its not the rifle. Its a rifle and shooter combo. Who cares what label your rifle carries. People should know their accuracy skills and the characteristics of their equipment. If they want to compete in a competition then let them compete. All this labelling is for bickering and egos. Go shoot and have fun.

I will add to the above as the definition belongs to the event or pastime rifle/shooter participates in not the level of accuracy they can attain .

A beginner with very expensive top shelf gear in almost every discipline will more than likely not place as high as a very experienced shooter with lesser gear yet both will be competing in the same event .

As well ,a hunting rifle that is a 1 1/2 MOA rifle is still a hunting rifle and will still kill at the distances most hunters kill game at
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

The 100 yard Benchmark is silly.

[obsessed1]

One of the drills I practice with all my scoped bolt Acton hunting rifles is shooting balloons. I pound in lath stakes at various ranges from 100 to 1000 yds in a field and pin 2-4 8" coloured balloons to them. My drill begins with ranging ( using rangefinder or reticle depending) then engaging the balloon. Since the field I shoot has dips and draws it's not possible to see all the balloon targets from prone or even sitting some times so tripods are used. By setting more than one balloon on each stake it allows me to run the same "course" multiple times. Often I will even time myself while doing the drill. I have completed the course with one shot hits all the way out to 1000yds with all my rifles. I guess i could classify all my rifles as precision rifles. Often I miss my wind call, dial wrong dope, or even range wrong requiring second or third shots to make hits but that's more shooter error than
Accuracy with my rifle. I run the same style drill with my varmint rifles just with smaller balloons and my iron sighted levers I only soot out to 300 yds typically.

It's a simple drill that you can do with 4 different rifles using as little as 5-10 rounds/ gun / outing depending on how many targets you put out. After a summer of this it's amazing how good you can get. For a hunting rifle groups don't really mean much other than to prove IT'S level of precision. Shooter ability far out weighs rifles capability in my books.

[6MT]

Originally Posted by chuck

The 100 yard Benchmark is silly.

Not for a rimfire.

[HW223]

Originally Posted by 6MT

Not for a rimfire.

Or benchrest

[Stinky Coyote]

i was wondering about this 'precision rifle' term for a bit but from what i can tell the term is used to describe this latest phenom of these chassis rifles and long distance shooting, also AR's set up to do long work, all target based shooting (no hunting)

maybe tactical wannabe black all metal guns is another way to say it?

i could care less what they call it and plenty of sporter rifles can outshoot plenty of chassis/AR rigs but that's what i've learned, for most of us gun nuts the term is almost laughable as we just understand precision rifle a little more literally

i think it helps simplify things, marketing driven, for the newbs etc.

maybe it's the actual competition name that many of these rigs compete in that have defined this latest term? not entirely sure the source of this new term being thrown around to describe all these metal black guns (bolt or ar) for shooting 600-1000 yards at the range? but i ran into it a bunch while researching my little grendel howa mini chassis build and that's what i've learned...we can definitely move on now that we know it doesn't really apply to us, we know what a precision rifle really is

end of the day the term seems to be used for this new class of rifles that have become popular of late, not so much for the actual precision of them but more about what they are set up to do...longer range target stuff, the term 'precision' in the naming of this latest and greatest movement is more of an implication of precision than anything else lol

if it's about 10 lbs plus, all metal, mostly black or fde, uses AR accessories likely, atlas bipods or on these big tripods clamped in hog/pig clamps etc. looks like a military sniper rig, then that may help paint the picture also...precision alright

not really a thing here on a local hunting forum, glad i brought everyone up to speed haha

hth

[rem338win]

I don't disagree and woukd say the OP's intention is to label the kit not the operator. If the kit isn't capable then the operator is attempting to roll dice.

The rifle needs to be functional and consistent. The accuracy standard stated is acceptable but I would also ditch the 100m range.

I also think that a precision rifle should be in the 9-12lb range with optics and attached equipment (pods etc). There are so many positions that 16lb rifles are not usable in.

The other things to consider are barrel lengths (28"+) being practical and slings.

But what I am envisioning vs another may be apples to oranges. I'm thinking engaging 10x10" targets from 300 to 900m from multiple positions.

Are you considering this just an exercise in accuracy with a platform to match?

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Clearly, performance needs to be a prime consideration. Forget the manufacture’s label or a wonder group.
Obviously, there are two levels of “precision” and for the purpose of this thread I will exclude “Bench rest” performance which would call for consistency under 0.25 MOA and might typically be shot using wide, flat bottomed fore-stocks.

IMO, a sporter style precision rifle deserves the handle only AFTER it has proven capable of::: three consecutive 5 shot groups at 100yds/m, each measuring under .5 MOA C-to-C with at least one group being sub 0.4 MOA....AND...one ten shot group at 300yds/m measuring less than .5 MOA C-to-C.

What do you think...too stringent...not stringent enough?

Perhaps a precision rifle should be capable of doing the .5 MOA groups with more than one "Pet Load". I think that 5 shots at 300 yards should be sufficient to prove the rifle/load combination is capable of precision accuracy.

I had a new Benchmark Barrel installed on the CZ 527 Varmint that I had ran a Pac Nor Barrel on for a number of years.
[IMG][/IMG]
This Pac Nor Barrel was chambered in 20 EXTREME and shot a number of loads into sub 1/2 Moa and even some into less than that at 300 yards.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

The best "gopher", load in this rifle, shot sub 1/2 Moa even after over 7000 rounds as it did in all rifles chambered in this cartridge. Kreiger barrel:
[IMG][/IMG]

I sighted in the new barrel, with 4 shots on the first target, adjusted the scope, and shot these targets with that load and two others that I had worked up in another rifle.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
AA 2015 and H 322 loads with 40 V-Max, top targets:
[IMG][/IMG]

I think a precision rig must have a scope capable of tracking accurately. Of course you need an accurate rifle/cartridge combination to test it. This box test proved that the Hawke 8.5x25x42 Tactical is an excellent choice for a Precision gopher gun.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Stinky Coyote]

really, i think now when you see a post anywhere asking about 'precision rifle' input of any sort...it's referencing these tacticool chassis/ar style heavy rifles with rails, huge scopes, and in cartridges able to bang to 1000 yrds on targets...probably 10" steel as said above etc.

it's the latest rage in firearms, seen enough now to know that's what guys are talking about when the term precision rifle comes up, has nothing to do really with how well it can consistently group 3 or 5 shots at any range...they just try and hit little gongs at big distances, they don't seem to measure much except 'hits'...that's my take on it all

these 'precision rifles' are all about minute of hit

on a mostly hunting driven forum this may be new news?

[Jerry D]

My 2 cents is it has a lot to do with the PRS or precision rifle series

Chassis stocks are modular. Adjustable comb heights for different scopes rings users etc...

They are a weight and barrel contour and whatnot suitable to shooting that style. Some have barricade stops on them and special provisions for bipod and tripods etc

The manufacturers are most likely easier able to make an aluminum stock using ar parts than being experts in fiberglass etc... so people like the chassis system and people like the bedding block concepts...

So my definition a rifle designed with the purpose to compete in prs...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

My 2 cents is it has a lot to do with the PRS or precision rifle series

Chassis stocks are modular. Adjustable comb heights for different scopes rings users etc...

They are a weight and barrel contour and whatnot suitable to shooting that style. Some have barricade stops on them and special provisions for bipod and tripods etc

The manufacturers are most likely easier able to make an aluminum stock using ar parts than being experts in fiberglass etc... so people like the chassis system and people like the bedding block concepts...

So my definition a rifle designed with the purpose to compete in prs...

This magazine was around long before what many call precision shooting today
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...s-publication/
Articles on events and how to, profiles on different competitors , barrel makers , stock makers etc.,from SBR to Service rifle , from smallbore 3P to 1,000 BR, everything.
Cat

[Big Sky]

I think that the term ' big game rifle' brings to mind a certain style of rifle. I think that the term 'varmint rifle' brings to mind a certain type of rifle. Most rifle owners could tell the difference.

I think that "precision rifle" is a term that describes a certain style of rifle. I don't believe that the term refers to precision accuracy. Most "precision rifles" that I see at my range are not especially accurate, certainly not to the standard that the OP suggests. But of course, there are guys with 'precision rifles' that are capable of that type of accuracy.

Other posters have said that a 'precision rifle' is of the style that you commonly see in PRS shooting. I agree. These people may want a rifle built from the best components. The cost would be high. The rifle would be expected to deliver outstanding accuracy and withstand rough usage.

But, in some ways, I think that the trend to 'precision rifles' is similar to the way that people mod their 10/22's. Many are just used for casual shooting, but they want something different than everyone else. Take your Tikka T3 Varmint, put it in a chassis stock, top it with a large scope fastened with oversize rings and you've got yourself a 'precision rifle' capable of pretty decent accuracy. If it makes shooting more enjoyable, that's great. Serious shooters who compete with their 'precision rifles' would likely want something much more than that.

When someone says that they have a precision rifle, I'm expecting to see a rifle that incorporates many, if not all, of these features and maybe more.
- chassis stock
- detachable magazine
- long, heavy barrel
- muzzle brake
- hubble style scope with 30 or 34mm tube and exposed turrets
- pic rail, probably canted
- robust scope mounting system
- large bolt knob
- chambered for cartridges that have a reputation for accuracy at longer ranges

[6.5 shooter]

A precision rifle......is one that hits the target...every time

[Newview01]

The AR-15 is the (next?) precision rifle.

What more do you want? 1/2 moa, semi auto, relatively compact, versatile, ubiquitous parts, the list goes on.

Available calibers are increasing. Key components are getting refined.

With numerous other similar platforms that can't meet the same standards we are going to a revolution, soon. It is the way of the future.

Unless the "I don't like it so ban it" crowd has their way.

[260 Rem]

Big Sky ... reading your post, the light came on. It’s about the “style” and not necessarily “accuracy” as I had imagined. I kept hearing guys talk about how their precision rifles shot, which in many cases didn’t square with my literal understanding of the term. But you are on the money when you point out we all have a common understanding of what a “hunting” rifle / “varmint” rig / (and dare I say “assault rifle) looks like.

[Jerry D]

I still will stick with my opinion...

Savage
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/m...hburyPrecision

Ruger
https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html

Yes accurate rifles have been around for a long time.... but as far as precision goes... the best of the best would be bench rest.... then f class? Single shot actions...

If those are the most precise rifles then sure they should be precision rifles which they are but I think precision rifles aren't those. Those are bench rest and f class specific rifles.

The new trend to precision rifles is simply a matter of word choice going away from sniper rifle because that would be a rifle in the hands of s trained sniper. Precision rifle would be a similar rifle in the hands of a civilian.

Pgw coyote
http://www.pgwdti.com/coyote/

Remington m700
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Sniper Rifles/XM2010.aspx

Ruger and savage have chosen to have precision in their marketing names. PRS has a factory class where many are competing with the above rifles in competion.

I'm think precision rifles should have a set of features as mentioned above and be approx .75 moa if you need an accuracy cutoff

Bush guns... some would say rem 7400. Others rem 7600... Others will say a pump slug... or buckshot. Others say a lever 30 30... or big bore. Some like bolt action carbines. Me, I'll just take any standard length 22 or 24 inch barrel bolt gun so who knows. Opinions will differ...

[WeatherbyFan65]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Clearly, performance needs to be a prime consideration. Forget the manufacture’s label or a wonder group.
Obviously, there are two levels of “precision” and for the purpose of this thread I will exclude “Bench rest” performance which would call for consistency under 0.25 MOA and might typically be shot using wide, flat bottomed fore-stocks.

IMO, a sporter style precision rifle deserves the handle only AFTER it has proven capable of::: three consecutive 5 shot groups at 100yds/m, each measuring under .5 MOA C-to-C with at least one group being sub 0.4 MOA....AND...one ten shot group at 300yds/m measuring less than .5 MOA C-to-C.

What do you think...too stringent...not stringent enough?

IMHO What your referring to is an accurate rifle, regardless of what it is used for or how a guy uses it or what stock it wears and in the end your terminology of what constitutes a Precision Rifle is just that "yours"

Its like the term "Magnum" I have a 240 Weatherby Magnum which by all accounts is a 30-06 case necked down to 6mm so is it a Magnum.....hardly but its sold as a Weatherby magnum.

Hornady just come out with the 6.5 PRC - Precision Rifle Cartridge ? does that mean it's accurate to, can it only be used in a Precision Rifle ? of course not its merely a terminology or in this case a name.

So if we take your ideology of a sporter style precision rifle and a rifle that shoots a 1" group at a 100 yards and you shoot a deer in the heart your so called "sporter style precision rifle" is no better than the 1" MOA or heaven forbid a 2" MOA rifle as they both killed the deer dead,

So if you want to rebrand your rifles into Sporter Style Precision Rifles fill your boots, but in the end its just a term, to me what you have is a very accurate hunting rifle.......which is what I strive for every time I have a rifle built.

I have several rifles that on most days I can dam near put 3 shots in the same hole, but the next day I had one to many coffees or I wasn't quite focussed at the bench or the loaded ammo wasn't consistent and I shoot a 1" group ?

I guess that rifle just got declassified.......!

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by WeatherbyFan65

IMHO What your referring to is an accurate rifle, regardless of what it is used for or how a guy uses it or what stock it wears and in the end your terminology of what constitutes a Precision Rifle is just that "yours"

Its like the term "Magnum" I have a 240 Weatherby Magnum which by all accounts is a 30-06 case necked down to 6mm so is it a Magnum.....hardly but its sold as a Weatherby magnum.

Hornady just come out with the 6.5 PRC - Precision Rifle Cartridge ? does that mean it's accurate to, can it only be used in a Precision Rifle ? of course not its merely a terminology or in this case a name.

So if we take your ideology of a sporter style precision rifle and a rifle that shoots a 1" group at a 100 yards and you shoot a deer in the heart your so called "sporter style precision rifle" is no better than the 1" MOA or heaven forbid a 2" MOA rifle as they both killed the deer dead,

So if you want to rebrand your rifles into Sporter Style Precision Rifles fill your boots, but in the end its just a term, to me what you have is a very accurate hunting rifle.......which is what I strive for every time I have a rifle built.

I have several rifles that on most days I can dam near put 3 shots in the same hole, but the next day I had one to many coffees or I wasn't quite focussed at the bench or the loaded ammo wasn't consistent and I shoot a 1" group ?

I guess that rifle just got declassified.......!

Very well said!!!! I might add that "Long Range" precision has a different meaning to some than others. To me a long range Precision Varminter is a rifle capable of shooting the head off of a gopher at 300 meters more often than not. Others may consider shooting a gopher at 600 yards to be long range but actually they both have to be capable of more than SUB 1/2 MOA. A 1MOA hunting rifle would be sufficient to kill deer to these ranges and would be "my idea" of a Percision Hunting rig. However I was never satisfied unless I could get 1/2MOA from a hunting rig but that is just me.

[WeatherbyFan65]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Very well said!!!! I might add that "Long Range" precision has a different meaning to some than others. To me a long range Precision Varminter is a rifle capable of shooting the head off of a gopher at 300 meters more often than not. Others may consider shooting a gopher at 600 yards to be long range but actually they both have to be capable of more than SUB 1/2 MOA. A 1MOA hunting rifle would be sufficient to kill deer to these ranges and would be "my idea" of a Percision Hunting rig. However I was never satisfied unless I could get 1/2MOA from a hunting rig but that is just me.

Last fall I shot a Coyote between the lookers at 300 yards with my 280AI which is my go to hunting rig ? I have the best of both worlds....I suppose !

And yes it will shoot consistent 1/4" groups at a 100 yards so were on the same page with an accurate hunting rifle

[Stinky Coyote]

Well said Jerry D!

6.5 PRC would be the best long range hunting choice in irony of it's name but it's also being stated that by the writers talking about it. Some long range hunters are already all over it. It's the .270wsm of this new era of cartridges designed to seat them long high bc bullets out of the powder space but still fit the actions and also have the corresponding barrel twist rates right in the saami specs etc.

6.5 PRC (short action magnum)
6.5 Creedmoor (short action) (AR10 platforms)
6.5 Grendel (mini-action, howa or cz 527)(AR15 platforms)
nicknames could be like this

6.5 mag
6.5
6.5 short



Going by Hornady specs of the a-max...er i mean eld-m factory offerings and using the bison ballistics calculator over the hornady (the bison mimicks the old big game info calculator which i found realistic, the hornady one out to lunch on g1 imo)

Here's your 1600 fps minimum impact distances...if anything to simply show you the range capability differences of the 3 new rounds designed to run these long high bc bullets out of the powder space as much as possible and fit in actions/magazines as already available and standardized.

6.5 PRC (147 gr) 1150 yrds, transonic 1750
6.5 CM (147 gr) 950 yrds, transonic 1550
6.5 G (123 gr) 625 yrds, transonic 1250

Lots would choose the 140 gr in the Creedmoor and it's 850 and transonic around 1400.

So another way to look at it would be the...

Creedmoor goes another 225-325 yards further than the Grendel, and the PRC goes another 200-300 yards further than the Creedmoor.

All three of these 6.5's are great imo, they suit our times, understanding, and desires from bang sticks these days...killing (live things), paper, steel, or jugs full of liquid...even balloons.

Pick your poison, how far you want to shoot it, how hard you want to hit it, and how much recoil you'd like to put up with to do it? Recoil level from .22-250 to 308 class to 270 wsm class.

I'm a big fan of that Grendel let me tell you, but i hunt predators as much or more than big game and most of my world lands under 600 yards so....

In terms of accuracy i'm happy with sub moa to do the above too, so much factory gear and ammo can now do that which is awesome!

Currently building two Grendels, 1 in cz 527 american and 1 in howa mini-action in mdt lss chassis. Both for hunting only, both weigh less than 7 1/4 lbs with a smaller leupold, one for me, one for the kids that can grow with them and go with them for life too. I have a feeling i'll be building a second howa chassis once the first is done. So one pure sporting rifle shooting a precision rifle cartridge choice and one precision rifle build more like a sporter in set up, also shooting a precision rifle cartridge choice. Lots are loving that Grendel in the AR platform (bolt actions too), giving it 800 yard legs on steel easy i'm reading, some taking it to 1000. I'm different like that, i can only follow trends very loosely.

[Tpindy]

thats some shooting there iclund1946.