Solution for Rural Crime?

[Smokinyotes]

I dont think a volunteer force is the answer. If RCMP actually came when first called this would help rural crime but the real deterrent would be if home owners could start gut shooting some of these thugs or chopping hands off would be a real deterrent.

[michaelmicallef]

Raise taxes so no one can afford anything worth steeling.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

No. A town, with a volunteer component in the fire department. Not sure what your point is.

The point is if you live in town with tons of resources you might not understand my fear. We've had 2 neighbors in as many weeks have firearms pulled on them. How long until one of these thugs comes down my driveway? What if Im away and they hold my kids and wife at gun point? Police could have over an hour response time. That's unacceptable for me, I want someone there quickly. That's why I came up with the idea of volunteer deputies.

As it is all the neighbors will most likely be going in on security systems and we'll be responding to each others homes if they go off.

[raab]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

If I was a police officer wanting to make an arrest, I would want back up from police officers. If I was suspecting a violent confrontation making the arrest I would want back up by a trained swat team.

If the reason for arrest develops quickly there might be no time to notify and get those volunteers in position. If there is time to plan, I would want real police officers.

If you were suspecting a violent confrontation, and needed SWAT. Then the Deputies help secure the perimeter to ensure no one escapes. Try securing a perimeter with two cops for 10 hours while SWAT responds from Edmonton. Obviously different departments will have different needs.

If I was an Officer and knew and trained with the local volunteers I'd have no problem calling them out to help with an arrest. More people means less problems for an officer.

The basic premise is do we want more people available to respond to police emergencies or not?

[raab]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I dont think a volunteer force is the answer. If RCMP actually came when first called this would help rural crime but the real deterrent would be if home owners could start gut shooting some of these thugs or chopping hands off would be a real deterrent.

Would also like to see castle law brought into effect. Having that and local deputies in every town would go a long way in reducing the crime rate in rural areas.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by raab

The basic premise is do we want more people available to respond to police emergencies or not?

I would not just want more people or more bodies. If the RCMP are planning an arrest they have enough people. If it was a serious incident non police people would just get in the way. If the RCMP do not have enough man hours to get the job done, they do not have the time to train those wannabes. I would rather a few good men than many who are not police, just because the need for more bodies.. I doubt you could get a volunteer response briefed and ready to go in less than an hour. Do you just want a bunch of volunteer prepared to shoot it out with a minimum amount of preparation?

If there is a bunch of bad guys approaching your property, what's the plan?

[silverdoctor]

Fighting a losing battle here Raab, these fellers can't agree on anything.

I vote carry a big stick and walk softly, won't see you coming.

Wouldn't neighborhood watch be a good start?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Fighting a losing battle here Raab, these fellers can't agree on anything.

I vote carry a big stick and walk softly, won't see you coming.

Wouldn't neighborhood watch be a good start?

The way our legal system works, "watch" is the key word there.......

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by hal53

The way our legal system works, "watch" is the key word there.......

We don't have castle doctrine, you don't have the right to self defense - this is Canada, and you can thank the government for it. I'd like to see more shootings in this regard, but It is what it is. Even the police don't want us defending ourselves, hide and let them rob you.

i don't know what to say.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I voted no.

Too risky, too many rambos will apply.

Agree.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

We don't have castle doctrine, you don't have the right to self defense - this is Canada, and you can thank the government for it. I'd like to see more shootings in this regard, but It is what it is. Even the police don't want us defending ourselves, hide and let them rob you.

i don't know what to say.

Yup...and I get a kick out of you city folk that are howling when police response time is greater than 10 minutes....

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by raab

The point is if you live in town with tons of resources you might not understand my fear. We've had 2 neighbors in as many weeks have firearms pulled on them. How long until one of these thugs comes down my driveway? What if Im away and they hold my kids and wife at gun point? Police could have over an hour response time. That's unacceptable for me, I want someone there quickly. That's why I came up with the idea of volunteer deputies.

As it is all the neighbors will most likely be going in on security systems and we'll be responding to each others homes if they go off.

If they are actually holding your wife and kids a gun point that is not a job for a quick set up bunch of volunteers.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

We don't have castle doctrine, you don't have the right to self defense - this is Canada, .

We do not have castle doctrine but we do have the right of self defense. Its just that no one is going to give anyone blanket permission to gut shoot or off someone with no questions asked. If one is required to defend life there will be an investigation and if the defense is found to be reasonable there will be no charges.

Probably not get away with shooting someone running away after stealing gasoline.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I dont think a volunteer force is the answer. If RCMP actually came when first called this would help rural crime but the real deterrent would be if home owners could start gut shooting some of these thugs or chopping hands off would be a real deterrent.

Yep that is the type of language one should use on a thread suggesting arming of volunteers

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

We do not have castle doctrine but we do have the right of self defense. Its just that no one is going to give anyone blanket permission to gut shoot or off someone with no questions asked. If one is required to defend life there will be an investigation and if the defense is found to be reasonable there will be no charges.

Probably not get away with shooting someone running away after stealing gasoline.

Like everything else in Canada, it's subjective and up to the cops. Reasonable force is a tricky thing.

[michaelmicallef]

It's nice to dream. Nothing will happen guys except people getting hurt that confront thieves and if you don't get hurt you'll be charged. God forbid you mess up someone that pulls up on your land with none malicious intent. This is Canada and nothing is going to change as far as people being allowed
to protect their property.

[fitzy]

I voted no.

Kinda feels like a short cut to your dream of being able to carry.

[raab]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I would not just want more people or more bodies. If the RCMP are planning an arrest they have enough people. If it was a serious incident non police people would just get in the way. If the RCMP do not have enough man hours to get the job done, they do not have the time to train those wannabes. I would rather a few good men than many who are not police, just because the need for more bodies.. I doubt you could get a volunteer response briefed and ready to go in less than an hour. Do you just want a bunch of volunteer prepared to shoot it out with a minimum amount of preparation?

If there is a bunch of bad guys approaching your property, what's the plan?

Clearly youve never worked with the RCMP in rural Alberta. They DONT have the people which is why I think this is a good idea. If the RCMP had enough people then I wouldnt be proposing this idea. And training goes through the Solicitor general, not the RCMP.

[raab]

Originally Posted by fitzy

I voted no.

Kinda feels like a short cut to your dream of being able to carry.

Yea, except I said would probably only issue non-restricted weapons... If you dont want me protecting my home, then I want good responses times. And not one cop with a handgun. I want 4-6 guys with semi auto's and shotguns pulling up my driveway if these idiots pull a gun on my wife. If nothing changes I guarantee people will be getting shot. Either farmers or criminals.

[bobalong]

Get rid of the RCMP, or send them down east. Provincial police force that will go into rural areas. RCMP have basically become totally useless to the rural areas of Alberta.

[Nyksta]

[The Spank]

The best solution is the one they have in Texas known as The Castle Law. Step foot on my property and I feel you intend to harm me and I have the legal right to shoot you....DEAD!!

[58thecat]

Hey we got volunteer firefighters so why not police...active even in thier own vehicles etc...that would put a damper on all the meatheads activities not just rural but urban too...little light on the dash, pull ya over, identify themself and write tickets etc

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

Written during a time when if you stole a horse you hung...we have tooooo many snowflakes today...oh he was a good person, didn't mean to get wrapped up in that crowd....blablabla....

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Get rid of the RCMP, or send them down east. Provincial police force that will go into rural areas. RCMP have basically become totally useless to the rural areas of Alberta.

X2

A federal police force is a recipe for disaster. Their usefulness was gone before the dodo. A Provincially administrated police force would be a much better idea IMO.

[JB_AOL]

Sorry Raab.. But you are emotional because of what has happened around you, and are not thinking straight..

The time commitment alone would kill this "volunteer" aspect of it, with all the training (and retraining), then the actual time for "policing".

One sentence your stating these "volunteers" would assist RCMP on dangerous situations, and the next you'd say they would only help with these basic crimes.. I don't know who you think is committing all these crimes, but the vast majority of them are crack heads/lifers feeding their habits. In other words, they are dangerous as was proved by the situations that happened to your neighbors. Your solution wouldn't work for your situation.

Notice I haven't even mentioned the liability part.. (which is why this is a no-go).

As I mentioned, Why not discuss the situation with your neighbors (and local LEO), and create a watch, but make it a visible watch. Switch nights with your neighbors driving up and down the roads with an orange flashing light on the roof and a security sign slapped on the side. That alone would deter most criminals. Remember, the same reason you bought in the country (peace and quiet) is the same reason criminals are finding these "easy" targets.

Put up signs saying "smile your on camera", buy some cheap fake cameras, and place them near the sign.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by raab

I want 4-6 guys with semi auto's and shotguns pulling up my driveway if these idiots pull a gun on my wife. If nothing changes I guarantee people will be getting shot. Either farmers or criminals.

Let me get this straight. Idiots got a gun pulled on your wife and you would want other armed idiots to be seen pulling into driveway?

You may force the hand of the guys that got the drop on your wife and there is no guarantee that this will end the way you expect.

If the armed posse just pull into your drive, they were not trained right.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Like everything else in Canada, it's subjective and up to the cops. Reasonable force is a tricky thing.

Reasonable force is a judgment thing. The crown and the police may make decision to charge but the decision to convict is up to the court.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by raab

Clearly youve never worked with the RCMP in rural Alberta. They DONT have the people which is why I think this is a good idea. If the RCMP had enough people then I wouldnt be proposing this idea. And training goes through the Solicitor general, not the RCMP.

Clearly you do not know armed incident response procedure. There is no policy that would allow a bunch of armed people to just arrive and immediately confront a dangerous situation.

and I have worked with the RCMP in rural Alberta.

[elkhunter11]

Bring in Castle law and the thieves and home invaders will think twice before committing crimes. The thieves don't fear our police or the courts, which is why rural crime keeps increasing.