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06-09-2017, 05:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride
The whole showing a PAL to purchase guns and ammunition is joke when one group doesn't even need to have a picture on the card and anyone could use it.
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Yup.
Treat all equally.
But if this business knew the laws and chose to deviate then they got caught...we all are guilty of something and if caught, nut up and take the punishment...now that the media has gotten hold of this hold on because they are always accurate and truthful.
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Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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06-09-2017, 07:22 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
“This gun store needlessly put public safety at risk by allowing conceivably anyone to acquire guns,” Staff Sgt. Jason Walper said in a news release. “We would be naïve to believe that this was not exploited by organized crime and the criminal element.”
Maybe it is naïve to assume?
The reality is that if one is not required to have a picture on their PAL, the purpose of the PAL is defeated.
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I have bought lots from this store , including guns . Everything was on the up and up with my experience. I think theSgt. Is grasping at straws to mention organized crime .
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06-09-2017, 07:49 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta270
Considering this is in Cardson, I take it you mean a prominent member of the Mormon church? I ask because they have a very specific doctrine as outline in the following quote, which comes from https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-...-laws?lang=eng
Abraham Lincoln once observed: “Bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible; still, while they continue in force, they should be religiously observed.” This is the attitude of the Church in regard to law observance. We agree with the author of the following statement: “In reality the man who defies or flouts the law is like the proverbial fool who saws away the plank on which he sits, and a disrespect or disregard for law is always the first sign of a disintegrating society. Respect for law is the most fundamental of all social virtues, for the alternative to the rule of law is that of violence and anarchy.” (Case and Comment. March/April issue, 1965, p. 20.) There is no reason or justification for men to disregard or break the law or try to take it into their own hands
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Have you generally found Mormon's to be wildly law breaking people?
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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06-09-2017, 07:50 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,607
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This is POSSIBLY no more than a case of a few random slip-ups on the part of the store staff in neglecting to ask for PAL when selling ammo (or guns). I know it's the law, but it's happened to me several times, and I'm sure others have made purchases in other stores where the salesperson forgot about asking for PAL verification.
It is, however, a perfect opportunity for the RCMP, the media, the antis, to make a huge issue of it. Just showing an inventory of 1000 guns and a million rounds of ammo is enough to make some poor frightened liberal wetsy gun-phobes squeal with delight... Could have possibly been selling to organized crime... gimme a break..
Like someone said, I'm sure there's more to the story.
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Some days you're a bullet; some days you're a gopher.
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06-09-2017, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunluvr
This is POSSIBLY no more than a case of a few random slip-ups on the part of the store staff in neglecting to ask for PAL when selling ammo (or guns). I know it's the law, but it's happened to me several times, and I'm sure others have made purchases in other stores where the salesperson forgot about asking for PAL verification.
It is, however, a perfect opportunity for the RCMP, the media, the antis, to make a huge issue of it. Just showing an inventory of 1000 guns and a million rounds of ammo is enough to make some poor frightened liberal wetsy gun-phobes squeal with delight... Could have possibly been selling to organized crime... gimme a break..
Like someone said, I'm sure there's more to the story.
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Unless they consider selling 22 LR ammunition to local UFA members organized.
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“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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06-09-2017, 08:39 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Have you generally found Mormon's to be wildly law breaking people?
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No, in fact, exactly the opposite. Nor have I found Mennonites to generally be wildly law breaking people.
Generally.
We all remember (or we should) the Mennonite gang in who was smuggling drugs from Mexico. The fact that generally a group doesn't break the law, doesn't absolve the reality that some do.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...king-1.2626314
Just because the owner is a 'prominent member of the local church' does not make him more innocent, or more guilty. It is just a data point which is irrelevant to the charges, and should not have been brought forward in the discussion.
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06-09-2017, 08:50 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Adams
So?
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Perhaps they have no online presence which seems pretty odd in this day and age, plus it seemed a rather sizeable inventory for a store that doesn't seem to get their name out on the internet. I generally try to explore any Alberta gun shops I'm aware of so I was surprised to have missed one is all. It just seems a weird thing to avoid in the current firearms marketplace. That being said I know that Pro Line Shooters in Calgary does not maintain any web presence to speak of, but they're in a large population centre on a main drag. Cardston isn't exactly a large population centre. Heck, even Bashaw Sports has a website. I thought it odd that in a decade on firearm chat forums it's never yet crossed my radar is all. Not one mention until this incident.
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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06-09-2017, 09:02 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Adams
Wrong. Again
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Why do you quote half of what I said and then disagree with it? Give your head a shake buddy. I never said no one had dealt with them. No one who had posted up to that point had mentioned ever hearing of them. I asked if anyone had ever used them before and said If (I repeat IF.. Have you got that???) no one had ever heard of them, that would be a red flag.
Confused. Again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate
In this case Oki has cut to to the exact heart of the matter!
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06-09-2017, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaberTosser
Perhaps they have no online presence which seems pretty odd in this day and age, plus it seemed a rather sizeable inventory for a store that doesn't seem to get their name out on the internet.
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They may have had enough of a reputation in the south to not to need a web presence? Or owner was old school. Good store with great inventory and the owners were very friendly and accommodating. If they didn't have it in stock they would do their bet to order it in for you. Highly doubt that there were ties to organized crime but anything to do with guns the RCMP/Libs will grab ahold of and put in the spotlight. If members of this forum did not know about the store I highly doubt that gang members were using it to obtain firearms at retail prices. I assume it was a case of store selling to farmers or members of the community and validating their PAL because they have know them for years, possibly selling to people without PAL's. If the got lax on the laws then they will have to be prepared to deal with the outcome. Hopefully they can still sell outdoor equipment and earn some sort of living.
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06-09-2017, 10:08 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 19,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosshog
They may have had enough of a reputation in the south to not to need a web presence? Or owner was old school. Good store with great inventory and the owners were very friendly and accommodating. If they didn't have it in stock they would do their bet to order it in for you. Highly doubt that there were ties to organized crime but anything to do with guns the RCMP/Libs will grab ahold of and put in the spotlight. If members of this forum did not know about the store I highly doubt that gang members were using it to obtain firearms at retail prices. I assume it was a case of store selling to farmers or members of the community and validating their PAL because they have know them for years, possibly selling to people without PAL's. If the got lax on the laws then they will have to be prepared to deal with the outcome. Hopefully they can still sell outdoor equipment and earn some sort of living.
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I was noting it seemed odd to have not even heard mention of them on various firearms forums, such as "Yeah, I bought a 12 gauge from them and the service was great" or even a complaint or notation when someone is asking where to find something specific such as "That ammo you were looking for, K&D had some in stock when I was there a week ago Tuesday" I never heard a peep about them in a decade on gun forums, that's the odd part to me.
As for the charges, if it was just one employee who was forgetful about asking for a PAL on ammo purchases that would be awful. Based on the photo of the inventory one gets the impression they were a normal legitimate store that slipped on procedure (if proven in court, that is). The inventory would be significantly different if they were supplying organized crime, being that Gangsta's don't use lots of Browning and CZ long guns.
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"The trouble with people idiot-proofing things, is the resulting evolution of the idiot." Me
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06-09-2017, 01:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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Even in this Political Correct gone crazy world we live in now, something doesn't make sense here.
If Joe Bloe comes into my store to purchace a firearm and show's me a PAL with no picture on it, is it not still my responsibility to try and establish that he is in fact Joe Bloe? How does one do that if Joe Bloe does not have any picture ID?
Would I be accused of being a racist (or whatever) if I refused to sell him a firearm?
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06-09-2017, 01:30 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,296
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In your example i would make a call to the cfo to confirm its a valid licence?
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/c.../index-eng.htm
What is interesting is a source for components was not shared on this forum.
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06-09-2017, 02:15 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 7,770
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I would be surprised if the one person I know involved was into anything like organized crime or anything major. I know a lot of the farmers down there don't have PAL's but like to buy 22 ammo for gophers......
It is a great store there and I think there must be a lot more to the story if they were into this for 5 months. Hopefully there will be a somewhat of a good outcome to this but I am not seeing one
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06-09-2017, 02:22 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landowner
I have bought lots from this store , including guns . Everything was on the up and up with my experience. I think theSgt. Is grasping at straws to mention organized crime .
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Until more info comes out we are all grasping.
But you realize that what makes a good criminal is the fact that they don't appear to be anything out of the ordinary.
What do you expect...that you go into the establishment and they greet you with "hi we're crooks breaking the law...what can we do for you".
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06-09-2017, 03:47 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,318
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Cabertosser , I've pmd a bunch of folks on thus forum about K and D being the place to find reloading and ammo supplies ..they were a honey hole so to speak . Many guys on this forum have been there and will continue to go..
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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06-09-2017, 04:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
Why do you quote half of what I said and then disagree with it? Give your head a shake buddy. I never said no one had dealt with them. No one who had posted up to that point had mentioned ever hearing of them. I asked if anyone had ever used them before and said If (I repeat IF.. Have you got that???) no one had ever heard of them, that would be a red flag.
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You never said 'if' in your first post.
Keep digging that hole.
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06-09-2017, 04:10 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
How so? There is no legal requirement to check a PAL or confirm identity when selling a non-restricted firearm.
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Oh Oh! try Google.
Guy with a mule!!! smart fella.
"Can you say "Set-up" ?? Goodale and the "liberal driven" horsemen brass will love this ! Fits in perfectly with up-coming bill and "announcement"
Guess who wants to bring in more tougher gun laws?
RCMP or MSM slanting the story? naaaa!
Might not be organized crime, a sleeper cell, sex slave ring, black market salmon from native fisheries, illegal mattresses without 'do not remove tags', but we can't say for sure. The investigation is still under way. We do know at this point that only cops should have carbines.
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I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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06-09-2017, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
Until more info comes out we are all grasping.
But you realize that what makes a good criminal is the fact that they don't appear to be anything out of the ordinary.
What do you expect...that you go into the establishment and they greet you with "hi we're crooks breaking the law...what can we do for you".
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My point is ... innocent till proven guilty, I feel the RCMP is planting seeds by mere mentioning organized crime . What I do expect is a fair shake from the authorities, doesn't always happen...
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06-09-2017, 05:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: edmonton
Posts: 11,434
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I'm still waiting for the news outlets to announce that IS has claimed responsibility.
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06-09-2017, 07:38 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 7,770
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hahahaha now that is funny. If you want to think that then have at it. I'm sitting here laughing as I read it.
And ya I just made a few phone calls and the stories on here are making me laugh as well.
Yes someone is going to get into some trouble. It isn't what the news has made it out to be the same as my business partners either but you guys feel free to say what you want.
There are a lot of small town stores in Alberta and across Canada doing the exact same thing as in Cardston. Some make the news. Some get a slap on the wrist.
Part of the problem is the law and the way it is set up and some of it is some not thinking it is as important to follow some of the mickey mouse laws to a T as well which he will pay for.
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06-09-2017, 07:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,665
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I read on a different thread that convicted by a court of law makes one a criminal no matter what the circumstances.
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06-09-2017, 08:22 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
I would be surprised if the one person I know involved was into anything like organized crime or anything major. I know a lot of the farmers down there don't have PAL's but like to buy 22 ammo for gophers......
It is a great store there and I think there must be a lot more to the story if they were into this for 5 months. Hopefully there will be a somewhat of a good outcome to this but I am not seeing one
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Do you not need a PAL to buy 22 ammo???
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06-09-2017, 08:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
Do you not need a PAL to buy 22 ammo???
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Depends who you are according to him. Just Mickey Mouse Laws I guess.
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06-09-2017, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,637
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This is not about a certain religion and it is not about misinformation about John Browning nor is it about some past partner of Nube's
Keep it on track with this original K&D news thread or the next derailer will be suspended.
BTW if anybody is wondering,when a post includes a quote that was deleted that post is deleted as well
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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06-09-2017, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 7,770
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And please make it clear I was not whining to have any of it removed Cat please.
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06-09-2017, 11:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
And please make it clear I was not whining to have any of it removed Cat please.
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For the record you had nothing to do with me stepping in here Nube.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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06-09-2017, 11:40 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 4,282
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What surprises me (not) is some of the more Liberal members of this site who are willing to throw a gun shop/owner under the bus because they have never heard of a store or seen the business on the net.....????????
These are probably the same Gunnies who cheered when Harper lost the last election, (and you know you are) and will pretend to whine the loudest when the new rules under the child king come into effect.....shame on you.
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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06-10-2017, 03:11 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 1,595
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It always surprises me how much discussion can be generated in the absence of hard information.
When the case comes out, and the evidence becomes more clear, we "may" be able to understand how this story arose.
I think we need to be careful how we choose our heroes and where we share our sympathy.
I will be very interested to see the evidence of criminal acts that supports the publicity put out by the RCMP.
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06-10-2017, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter
What surprises me (not) is some of the more Liberal members of this site who are willing to throw a gun shop/owner under the bus because they have never heard of a store or seen the business on the net.....????????
These are probably the same Gunnies who cheered when Harper lost the last election, (and you know you are) and will pretend to whine the loudest when the new rules under the child king come into effect.....shame on you.
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I agree 100%
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Former Ford Fan
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06-10-2017, 08:49 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskbooknut
It always surprises me how much discussion can be generated in the absence of hard information.
When the case comes out, and the evidence becomes more clear, we "may" be able to understand how this story arose.
I think we need to be careful how we choose our heroes and where we share our sympathy.
I will be very interested to see the evidence of criminal acts that supports the publicity put out by the RCMP.
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My fear on this case is the liberal media (Lethbridge Herald in this case) will put their own spin on the story, and only provide ammo for the antis.
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