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05-26-2017, 09:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta270
Or why don't the OHV drivers respect the 12 noon restriction in those WMUs where they apply? BTW, most trails OHVs are driven on were adopted by them, and not ever setup for them. But you knew that.
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BUT, they impact many of the most important habitat areas for wildlife and fish. But again, you knew that.
Native prairie is much more productive and drought resistant than anything that replaces it, and is one of the most endangered ecosystems we have. Most of our endangered species are prairie residents.
Yeah, wolves use them as travel corridors to get at game.
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If there is one thing you are good at, it is cherry picking facts and twisting words. Something your kind has always excelled at.
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05-26-2017, 10:07 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
If there is one thing you are good at, it is cherry picking facts and twisting words. Something your kind has always excelled at.
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Exactly what are you referring to?
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05-26-2017, 10:09 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta270
Or why don't the OHV drivers respect the 12 noon restriction in those WMUs where they apply? BTW, most trails OHVs are driven on were adopted by them, and not ever setup for them. But you knew that.
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BUT, they impact many of the most important habitat areas for wildlife and fish. But again, you knew that.
Native prairie is much more productive and drought resistant than anything that replaces it, and is one of the most endangered ecosystems we have. Most of our endangered species are prairie residents.
Yeah, wolves use them as travel corridors to get at game.
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Why don't fishermen and hunters respect the rules as well? That statement can be applied to anyone that breaks the rules.
As as for trails, MOST trails that people use were created by someone else, in most of the province Industry of one sort or another made them, and everyone uses them.
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05-26-2017, 10:45 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta270
Exactly what are you referring to?
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Your replies to my statements deftly deflect from what I am trying to get across. For instance, OHV users who drive before 12:00 have nothing to do with hunters who are hunting using an OHV before 12:00, and vice versa. One of those groups is breaking the law. Your statement "Or why don't the OHV drivers respect the 12 noon restriction in those WMUs where they apply" is implying that breaking the law should be illegal.
In addition you are still calling areas of your convenience sensitive. That is subjective, and it would be fair to assume that any environmentalist would define any area of the earth's surface as sensitive.
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05-26-2017, 10:53 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Your replies to my statements deftly deflect from what I am trying to get across. For instance, OHV users who drive before 12:00 have nothing to do with hunters who are hunting using an OHV before 12:00, and vice versa. One of those groups is breaking the law. Your statement "Or why don't the OHV drivers respect the 12 noon restriction in those WMUs where they apply" is implying that breaking the law should be illegal.
In addition you are still calling areas of your convenience sensitive. That is subjective, and it would be fair to assume that any environmentalist would define any area of the earth's surface as sensitive.
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I gave specific examples of the areas that are sensitive in post 109 . Do you have an issue with any of those, and if so, why? I also referenced that there are many areas where OHVs would not have a significant impact, and their use appropriate.
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05-26-2017, 11:07 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
Yeah same argument that the anti use to shut down sledding in the mountains, but funny, the vast majority of the caribou die in the summer months when there is no sledding and the caribou numbers are declining in the National Parks where there is no motorized access allowed.
But don't let a few facts get in the way of your pet arguments.
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Arguing with you guys is like arguing with a child why they need another toy, not much is going to change your mind about it.
You guy's arguments are getting increasingly foolish and desperate. Your extrapolating issues with one species (caribou)to the rest of them. At least do a little reading and come up with something that honestly makes sense and is based on an honest assessment of the situation. You are not doing the atv crowds any favour, just making them look ever more like a bunch of folks that don't give a crap about the environment or wildlife. But whatever. Im hoping for hey turn the entire east slopes into another Wildland Park so carry on. At least its amusing.
Can't wait for the "chewing mud holes and ripping up creeks with the ol atv helps fish populations by creating better fish habitat" argument haha.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 11:10 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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That's all you got?
When they turn them all into a National Park and kick the hunters out, you won't be laughing then.
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05-26-2017, 11:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alta270
I gave specific examples of the areas that are sensitive in post 109 . Do you have an issue with any of those, and if so, why? I also referenced that there are many areas where OHVs would not have a significant impact, and their use appropriate.
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Yes, you stated the Eastern Slopes are sensitive. An OHV trail does not damage the environment. Irresponsible use thereof will potentially damage the environment.
The thing is that your mind is made up, as is mine. As I said before, I prefer to walk when I hunt and I do not own OHVs. What really bugs me is how all hunters believe they are conservationists, but that term is open to interpretation. You believe the Eastern Slopes should be foot access only, you consider yourself a conservationist. I believe that OHV trails, properly maintained, do not pose an environmental risk. Who is right? Unfortunately our government is on your side and is running roughshod over any reasonable discussions and input.
BTW, if you want your kids / grandkids to enjoy wildlife, you should be fighting to keep OHV trails open. At this rate it will soon be a crime to step off of any government sanctioned trails, and we know how far those will extend if Y2Y has their way.
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05-26-2017, 11:21 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
That's all you got?
When they turn them all into a National Park and kick the hunters out, you won't be laughing then.
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No, I got lots more, just waiting for the next great insight from you guys. Got to say it's going to be tough to beat Newviews comment though that atv trails are as much a benefit to wildlife as a drawback. Thats was a zinger.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 11:26 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Yeah just about as much of a zinger as the belief that an OHV trail ruins the environment.
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05-26-2017, 11:32 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
Yeah just about as much of a zinger as the belief that an OHV trail ruins the environment.
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Yup. Atvs are harmless, thats a good one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 11:35 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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Yes and the entire environment in the areas you show is totally destroyed.
There is no wildlife for miles around, trees are dying, right? And of course all OHV trails look like this right?
Cherry picking as usual.
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05-26-2017, 11:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Yup. Atvs are harmless, thats a good one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Those pictures are a prime example of cherry picking.
I could take pictures of the worst examples of driving and use them as justification to ban cars.
Try be realistic.
And if wolves are a problem, why don't we have a cull and / or bounty? Talk to your friends at Y2Y, I'm sure they have the NDP's ear.
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05-26-2017, 11:48 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Yup. Atvs are harmless, thats a good one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"Originally Posted by fargineyesore View Post
Yeah just about as much of a zinger as the belief that an OHV trail ruins the environment"
Nice picture of a mud pit that is not a trail.
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05-26-2017, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Those pictures are a prime example of cherry picking.
I could take pictures of the worst examples of driving and use them as justification to ban cars.
Try be realistic.
And if wolves are a problem, why don't we have a cull and / or bounty? Talk to your friends at Y2Y, I'm sure they have the NDP's ear.
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Wow, pulling out the implication that I am an anti hunting, NDP loving Y2Yer. Funny how you guys can't imagine that many hunters (among others) are sick of the ATV damage that is going on province wide. You guys are just to slow to realize your arguments do not hold water. The more you deny the issues associated with ATV use the further behind you are getting. Sorry but it is the ATV crowd that needs to be realistic.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 12:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Wow, pulling out the implication that I am an anti hunting, NDP loving Y2Yer. Funny how you guys can't imagine that many hunters (among others) are sick of the ATV damage that is going on province wide. You guys are just to slow to realize your arguments do not hold water. The more you deny the issues associated with ATV use the further behind you are getting. Sorry but it is the ATV crowd that needs to be realistic.
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What is happening is the anti-OHV people blow the situation out of proportion, and are starting to call a mere trail, "damage".
And yes, some of your statements would align you with NDP / Y2Y.
What makes your arguments so meritorious?
The fact remains that there was no give on the issue. No option of increased enforcement. That alone shows the true colours of the groups agreeing with the ATV ban.
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05-26-2017, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2017
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BHA, Y2Y, AFGA, ACA, CPAWS, industry, First Nations, ranchers, and OHV groups are all considered stakeholders. I suggest effected parties join which ever organizations best reflects your values. Because as sure as death and taxes, there will be changes over your lifetime.
So make sure your voice is heard. Whichever side of this OHV issue you find yourself on.
One other point worth making, if you frequent this forum, you have more in common with each other than the majority of the Alberta population. Just a thought.
Cheers.
John,
Highlander Hunting Podcast.
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05-26-2017, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 250
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Wow, 5 pages worth of hijacking John's thread. Not surprising on here actually. John, I enjoyed the interview with Neil. Gave me a bit of insight into what the BHA is about. Some things I agree with, some I don't. But nonetheless, great job. Looking forward to more podcasts from you.
Cheers,
BDAJ
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05-26-2017, 01:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHLANDER HUNTING
BHA, Y2Y, AFGA, ACA, CPAWS, industry, First Nations, ranchers, and OHV groups are all considered stakeholders. I suggest effected parties join which ever organizations best reflects your values. Because as sure as death and taxes, there will be changes over your lifetime.
So make sure your voice is heard. Whichever side of this OHV issue you find yourself on.
One other point worth making, if you frequent this forum, you have more in common with each other than the majority of the Alberta population. Just a thought.
Cheers.
John,
Highlander Hunting Podcast.
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Good point, thanks.
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05-26-2017, 01:26 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Wow, pulling out the implication that I am an anti hunting, NDP loving Y2Yer. Funny how you guys can't imagine that many hunters (among others) are sick of the ATV damage that is going on province wide. You guys are just to slow to realize your arguments do not hold water. The more you deny the issues associated with ATV use the further behind you are getting. Sorry but it is the ATV crowd that needs to be realistic.
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What makes you think you speak for "many" hunters.
The few that frequent this forum do not represent a majority of hunters province-wide, you're just assuming that, and there are hunters on this board that don't agree with you either. So, again, another assumption on your part.
If you're so worried about fish and wildlife habitat, why not just stop fishing and hunting altogether, because is not that a large impact?
Funny how none of the OHV crowd, me included, are suggesting that, as we're not out there trying to tell everyone else what to do and frowning on others that do not ride OHVs like us. AND many of us are hunters and fishermen too.
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05-26-2017, 02:22 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fargineyesore
What makes you think you speak for "many" hunters.
The few that frequent this forum do not represent a majority of hunters province-wide, you're just assuming that, and there are hunters on this board that don't agree with you either. So, again, another assumption on your part.
If you're so worried about fish and wildlife habitat, why not just stop fishing and hunting altogether, because is not that a large impact?
Funny how none of the OHV crowd, me included, are suggesting that, as we're not out there trying to tell everyone else what to do and frowning on others that do not ride OHVs like us. AND many of us are hunters and fishermen too.
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Do you understand the meaning of "many"?
Do you understand the difference between "habitat" and "wildlife"?
Do you understand the role and history of hunting and fishing on wildlife and habitat conservation in North America and the rest of the world?
Do you understand or care about the impact of OHV use has on wildlife and habitat or other users?
Not that I can tell by your comments on here.
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 09:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
You are not doing the atv crowds any favour, just making them look ever more like a bunch of folks that don't give a crap about the environment or wildlife. But whatever. Im hoping for hey turn the entire east slopes into another Wildland Park so carry on. At least its amusing.
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The same can be said for hunters and anglers as well. There are a lot of those folks out there that don't give a crap about the environment or wildlife!!! Maybe they should keep everyone out of the eastern slopes, so careful what you wish for
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05-26-2017, 10:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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What is the problem with just having more enforcement for the rules we have now, or the rules we had up to a few months ago? Close the trails that are in "sensitive" areas. And, no the whole east slopes is not all sensitive. Nor is the whole castle area.
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05-26-2017, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy
The same can be said for hunters and anglers as well. There are a lot of those folks out there that don't give a crap about the environment or wildlife!!! Maybe they should keep everyone out of the eastern slopes, so careful what you wish for
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
What is the problem with just having more enforcement for the rules we have now, or the rules we had up to a few months ago? Close the trails that are in "sensitive" areas. And, no the whole east slopes is not all sensitive. Nor is the whole castle area.
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I was wondering when amigo two and three were going to jump in with some more amazing ohv "truths" and "facts". Like I have said before your arguments dont hold any water. But you guys are doing a fine job of showing the true colours of much of the ohv crowd. Keep up the good work.
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There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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05-26-2017, 11:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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I find it amazing that the anti groups answer is always to ban the atv's. No other solution would be acceptable. When a suggestion of remedying the so called problem is voiced, it is ignored. Banning is the only answer. Seems to me that that is selfish and self serving. You may get your way, but once something is gone, another anti group will maybe rally to get something you enjoy banned. Maybe back country camping will be the next target, that would sure put a cramp into hike in hunting wouldn't it.
Could you imagine the environmental damage back country camping could do?????
Fort Macmurray comes to mind.
Last edited by boah; 05-26-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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05-26-2017, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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bdub is the classic hypocrite. You see he is a strong supporter of full curl reg change, but yet he shoots a 4/5 curl. He must be ok with the hunter who shoots an animal and walks away from it because it's not legal, or the angler that catches a bull trout that gets thrown on shore. You see there are hunters and anglers who don't have no respect as well!! Keep up the good work there bdub
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05-27-2017, 08:08 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
I find it amazing that the anti groups answer is always to ban the atv's. No other solution would be acceptable. When a suggestion of remedying the so called problem is voiced, it is ignored. Banning is the only answer. Seems to me that that is selfish and self serving. You may get your way, but once something is gone, another anti group will maybe rally to get something you enjoy banned. Maybe back country camping will be the next target, that would sure put a cramp into hike in hunting wouldn't it.
Could you imagine the environmental damage back country camping could do?????
Fort Macmurray comes to mind.
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Neil explained in the interview a pay for play OHV park in BC that's being tried. The park limits damage to a specific area and funds collected go back to maintaining a designated trail system in that park. Maybe something like that could work in Alberta?
Other user groups on the eastern slopes have been regulated for years, for example fishing, so I don't think it's unfair to ask OHVs to be regulated too. Most rivers don't open until the middle of June and close in November. Then there are size restrictions, streams that are permanently closed to angling, etc. I think we can all make compromises to enjoy the privilege of using a public resource when those compromises are for its long-term betterment.
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05-27-2017, 08:49 AM
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Kinda sad that those with disabilities will loose the abilities too venture into wild land areas that those of us that have feet can walk too.
I'll let my good friend who lost his leg in battle know that he will have too give up on OHV fishing in the Eastern Slopes of Alberta.
Selfishness by folks that have abilities as they restrict those that don't have this privilege.
There is a large % of folks in Canada that have limited skills, yet there are many folks with full mobile functions that don't see this because they never give it much thought.
My other 2 active friends are all so out door folks, 1 with MS, the other with work place permanent injury.
I'm in partly in this too my friends.
Yes that we can get a AFG exemption permit, but it doesn't do us any good as others along with our selves try too keep the trail systems open that are all ready there.
The Big Horn trails, Onion Lake, and Cardinal trials started back in 1947 ish by Forestry. 71 + years of Canada's best known trails too date. At one time they were classed as roads
Before that they were the first Nation trails,,, before that they were game trails. All of them are still used by critters and humans too this very day.
There is no closed trails too critters that live in the wilds,,, only steep cliffs and raging rivers limit their access... Funny how they still get around those puzzles in life.
We're lucky since we have the all for transportation needs on our farm when it comes down too getting out there. I hope those that don't still get the chance to adventure the Eastern Slopes of Alberta by means of their choosing.
Those that can walk on their feet are very lucky people, but they don't know this till the day comes that they have no feet.
Don
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05-27-2017, 09:16 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles
Neil explained in the interview a pay for play OHV park in BC that's being tried. The park limits damage to a specific area and funds collected go back to maintaining a designated trail system in that park. Maybe something like that could work in Alberta?
Other user groups on the eastern slopes have been regulated for years, for example fishing, so I don't think it's unfair to ask OHVs to be regulated too. Most rivers don't open until the middle of June and close in November. Then there are size restrictions, streams that are permanently closed to angling, etc. I think we can all make compromises to enjoy the privilege of using a public resource when those compromises are for its long-term betterment.
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This is exactly what I am trying to get across. Compromises. Regulate and enforce. Banning something is not regulating.
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05-27-2017, 09:47 AM
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Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
Kinda sad that those with disabilities will loose the abilities too venture into wild land areas that those of us that have feet can walk too.
I'll let my good friend who lost his leg in battle know that he will have too give up on OHV fishing in the Eastern Slopes of Alberta.
Selfishness by folks that have abilities as they restrict those that don't have this privilege.
There is a large % of folks in Canada that have limited skills, yet there are many folks with full mobile functions that don't see this because they never give it much thought.
My other 2 active friends are all so out door folks, 1 with MS, the other with work place permanent injury.
I'm in partly in this too my friends.
Yes that we can get a AFG exemption permit, but it doesn't do us any good as others along with our selves try too keep the trail systems open that are all ready there.
The Big Horn trails, Onion Lake, and Cardinal trials started back in 1947 ish by Forestry. 71 + years of Canada's best known trails too date. At one time they were classed as roads
Before that they were the first Nation trails,,, before that they were game trails. All of them are still used by critters and humans too this very day.
There is no closed trails too critters that live in the wilds,,, only steep cliffs and raging rivers limit their access... Funny how they still get around those puzzles in life.
We're lucky since we have the all for transportation needs on our farm when it comes down too getting out there. I hope those that don't still get the chance to adventure the Eastern Slopes of Alberta by means of their choosing.
Those that can walk on their feet are very lucky people, but they don't know this till the day comes that they have no feet.
Don
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Yeah Don, that's too bad that people with disabilities will have even more trouble accesssing the high country. One day we'll all be in that position and thats just the way it goes really.
Personally, I think fitness will play an even more important role in hunting than it has in the past. So I guess the advantage is tipping toward the fit and away from being able to essentially buy your way into tough to reach places. Maybe that's what's really ****ing people off......eh newview? 💪
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