Cooper Rifles shoot

[elkhunter11]

I have fired about 50 rounds through my Cooper in 280AI,and I finally found a load that will meet the 1/2" at 100 yards accuracy guarantee.I fired three groups this morning using the 140gr barnes TTSX ahead of 59gr of imr-4831,and the first group out of a clean barrel went into 3/4".The second group went into 1/2",and the third group into just over 3/8".All nine rounds went into 1",and if the first shot out of a clean barrel is ignored,the next 8 shots went into 3/4".My chronograph battery died just as I started shooting,but the two shots that were recorded were right around 3100fps.I am going to load some more rounds,fire a few more groups,and chronograph the loads,but I am thinking that my load development is complete.

[pieplate]

I have also bought a cooper 280 ai and it is shooting 1/2 at 100.But I'm still fine tunning it using 160 accubonds/ RL19 59grs .Did you do anything with the trigger.

[elkhunter11]

I lightened the trigger to 44oz,but other than that,no changes.The trigger is far better than all of my Remington triggers except my 40xbks.

[Dick284]

I'd hate to see rifles priced as high as the Coopers, not shoot.

I wonder how my rebarreled 280AI Rem 700 will shoot compared toy those Coopers worth almost twice as much?

[elkhunter11]

I wonder how my rebarreled 280AI Rem 700 will shoot compared toy those Coopers worth almost twice as much?

Even a 700SPS with a premium quality barrel and a replacement stock is a lot more than half the price of the Cooper that I bought.A 700 SPS DM sells for about $750,add $600 for a premium barrel installed,then a least another $350 for a decent stock($500 for mcmillan),and you are up to $1700.I paid $1995 for the Cooper rifle including bases.For a difference of $300,I prefer the Cooper.

My previous six rifles were customs built on 700 Actions,with Mcmillan stocks.I ran the numbers to build another similar rifle in 280AI today,and it came to over $2000 with no extras such as a better trigger or a Sako extractor.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Even a 700SPS with a premium quality barrel and a replacement stock is a lot more than half the price of the Cooper that I bought.A 700 SPS DM sells for about $750,add $600 for a premium barrel installed,then a least another $350 for a decent stock($500 for mcmillan),and you are up to $1700.I paid $1995 for the Cooper rifle including bases.For a difference of $300,I prefer the Cooper.

My previous six rifles were customs built on 700 Actions,with Mcmillan stocks.I ran the numbers to build another similar rifle in 280AI today,and it came to over $2000 with no extras such as a better trigger or a Sako extractor.

There is no question, in my mind, you know your way around a custom build with an idea of the costs associated with it.

As an aside, I'm running 57gr H4350 with the 140 TTSX at 3100 fps in my 280 AI.

[elkhunter11]

I chronographed the 140gr TTSX load with 59 gr of IMR 4831 at 3070fps this morning at 15 degrees C.I am satisfied with both the accuracy and velocity of the load,so my load development is done.I called around and managed to find a good supply of the 140gr TTSX,so I bought 400 bullets.I also ordered another 100 Nosler 280AI brass,and purchased another 3lbs of IMR 4831.As it sits,I now have enough components to last me a few years.

[whitetailhntr]

Sounds like a great combo!I have had great results in my .280 with imr 4831 and a few different bullets.love the round and looking forward to getting a .280 ai built sometime soon!

[double gun]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Even a 700SPS with a premium quality barrel and a replacement stock is a lot more than half the price of the Cooper that I bought.A 700 SPS DM sells for about $750,add $600 for a premium barrel installed,then a least another $350 for a decent stock($500 for mcmillan),and you are up to $1700.I paid $1995 for the Cooper rifle including bases.For a difference of $300,I prefer the Cooper...

But you would end up with a "all-stainless" rifle built you you're specs, and have a Mcmillan instead of a $250 bell and carlson. Dont get me wrong the Coopers are unreal, but you can still build on a lower budget.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I wonder how my rebarreled 280AI Rem 700 will shoot compared toy those Coopers worth almost twice as much?

And a Hond civic will get you down the road in the same time with better mileage than a Mercedes at about 20% the cost.....

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by double gun

But you would end up with a "all-stainless" rifle built you you're specs, and have a Mcmillan instead of a $250 bell and carlson. Dont get me wrong the Coopers are unreal, but you can still build on a lower budget.

No you can't. Again as they said before, Remington 700 Stainless action at least 600, Premium barrel 600, McMillan Stock (or HS, or Browns) at least 500 installed and painted, Blueprinting, chambering and such, at least 350, Fluting another 175 at least. And try getting that out the door of any good builder under 2300. Good luck.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by rem338win

No you can't. Again as they said before, Remington 700 Stainless action at least 600, Premium barrel 600, McMillan Stock (or HS, or Browns) at least 500 installed and painted, Blueprinting, chambering and such, at least 350, Fluting another 175 at least. And try getting that out the door of any good builder under 2300. Good luck.

Actually you can. Buy a used stainless 700 for $600 (sell the factory barrel and stock for $200) buy a Gailliard barrel, and have him install it $600. Buy a B&C stock (since the cooper comes with one) for $250. = $1250
You can buy a wildcat which is a much better stock than a B&C for the same money, but you need to finish it. The Cooper isnt fluted so why are you adding that to the price? Chambering is included in the barrel fitting...so again why are you adding it to the price?

[double gun]

Hey Elkhunter11, what does your cooper weigh? Did you handle an excaliber when you were at Clay's? If so, how did the two models compare....weight, and feel/fit?

[elkhunter11]

Actually you can. Buy a used stainless 700 for $600 (sell the factory barrel and stock for $200) buy a Gailliard barrel, and have him install it $600. Buy a B&C stock (since the cooper comes with one) for $250. = $1250

The B&C Medalist stock sells for around $250 in U.S. dollars,$300 or more in Canadian dollars.The stock on the Cooper is the more expensive stock with the aluminum support,not the standard carbelite stock.You also forgot to add the cost of truing the action,lapping the lugs,and bedding the stock,things that I would do with any 700 action.That adds another $200 or more.The Cooper is bedded from the factory,and the fit and finish of the action is much better than that of a factory 700.And I for one would never pay $200 for a used factory 700 barrel and stock.Add the $200 for the truing lapping and bedding and you are at $1500.Forget the $200 for the used factory barrel and stock unless you can find a sucker,and it becomes $1700.Add in the Leupold bases included with the Cooper,and you are up to $1725.And you still have the crappy 700 extractor,and loose fitting Remington detachable mag.

The Jackson Hunters weighs just over 7-1/2lbs.I prefer the fit of the Jackson Hunter over the Excaliber.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The B&C Medalist stock sells for around $250 in U.S. dollars,$300 or more in Canadian dollars...

The ones I have ordered are Medalists, and with my choice of colors they are $225US(I have bought 2 in the last year and a half.)

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

...You also forgot to add the cost of truing the action,lapping the lugs,and bedding the stock,things that I would do with any 700 action.That adds another $200 or more....

If you are getting full contact on the lugs already, why lap them? Some actions need the threads, straightened many dont.....and I would love to see actual accuracy differences (in a hunting class rifle)from one that hasnt been done vs one that has. Bedding kit is $40 and everyone should have one in their stuff so - you're right I didnt add that to the cost. (I figured most would bed it themselves)

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Cooper is bedded from the factory,and the fit and finish of the action is much better than that of a factory 700...

You are right, they are nicer. I never said they werent. I said the Remington is all stainless, the Cooper isnt. Again, if you can afford a Cooper, great! They are top of the line.....but that doesnt change the fact that you can build out a Remington for quite a bit less.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And I for one would never pay $200 for a used factory 700 barrel and stock....

Ever watch the EE on CGN? Remington takeoff barrels all go for $100-$150 depending on caliber, condition and finish. Stocks go for $50-$125 again depending on model and condition....so to get $200 between the pair is not out of line....no matter what you think.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And you still have the crappy 700 extractor,and loose fitting Remington detachable mag.....

Yeah, everyone has trouble with the Remington extractors.

[elkhunter11]

The ones I have ordered are Medalists, and with my choice of colors they are $225US(I have bought 2 in the last year and a half.)

With exchange and shipping that works out to about $300 Canadian.

If you are getting full contact on the lugs already, why lap them?

I haven't seen full contact on any factory 700.If you are getting better than 50% on each lug,you are doing well.

Some actions need the threads, straightened many dont.....and I would love to see actual accuracy differences (in a hunting class rifle)from one that hasnt been done vs one that has.

I have had a few 700s accurized,the difference being from about 1/8" to 1/2" group size reduction at 100 yards.If I am going to bother with a premium barrel,why not true up the action to gain the barrel's potential?

You are right, they are nicer. I never said they werent. I said the Remington is all stainless, the Cooper isnt.

Actually the 700 is not all stainless.What do you suppose the front portion of the bolt including the bolt lugs are made out of?

Yeah, everyone has trouble with the Remington extractors.

I personally have had a 700 extractor fail.It's frustrating to have to use a cleaning rod to eject fired cases on a hunt.

[Big Thumper]

Just copied this from another thread over at CGN from SakoAlberta who deals in Coopers:

This rifle just sold to a customer over the weekend. He didn't waste anytime getting out with it. After the pic is a note he sent to me just a few minutes ago. Important to note that this guy has shooting skills well beyond most of us.

Cooper M38 Varminter .17 Fireball. $1799




rifle showed up @10 am.Very nice.Broke it in over the course of the day,it is a shooter.I havn't shot any 5 shot groups as I am still on 3 shot break in.When I shoot a group for accuracy,I always put 5 in the group,3 shots ,well you can get lucky once in a while. The last group shot was as mentioned a 3 shot,it measured .311 CTC,which is not real special untill I mention that it was at 200yds!!!!!!! It appears that it is a real tackdriver.The load was 16.6 grns h4198 and a 20 grn vmax.Velocity was 4084 fps
thank you

[double gun]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

....The last group shot was as mentioned a 3 shot,it measured .311 CTC,which is not real special untill I mention that it was at 200yds!!!!!!!

Wow that is one sweet shooter! Very nice. No question about it, Cooper knows how to build an accurate rifle.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

With exchange and shipping that works out to about $300 Canadian..

Or buy a Wildcat which is a superior stock and ends up costing about the same when you finish it yourself.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I haven't seen full contact on any factory 700.If you are getting better than 50% on each lug,you are doing well...

All of my remingtons that have at least 85% contact on both lugs. You can check this when looking over a used rifle....buy one with good contact.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have had a few 700s accurized,the difference being from about 1/8" to 1/2" group size reduction at 100 yards.If I am going to bother with a premium barrel,why not true up the action to gain the barrel's potential?...

First off, I would love to see how you came up with the evidence of the group reduction.(and what you consider accurizing an action)You make a good point, buy a Bevan King barrel of the 6 I have used all shot well under an inch and installed they came to about $400...so I just saved another $200.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Actually the 700 is not all stainless.What do you suppose the front portion of the bolt including the bolt lugs are made out of?...

You're right, but you forgot the sling swivel studs, springs, aluminum bottom metal aswell. When I said "all stainless" I was talking about the barrel, and reciever.


This could go on forever..... I never questioned Coopers quality or accuracy. I just said you can build a "custom" rifle for a lot less than many think.

[elkhunter11]

First off, I would love to see how you came up with the evidence of the group reduction.(and what you consider accurizing an action)

It's actually very simple to do.You work up loads for the factory rifle and take an average with the best load.You then have the action trued,lugs lapped and crown redone then work up loads again and take the average of the best load.Before building customs,I used to have my factory guns accurized.

Or buy a Wildcat which is a superior stock and ends up costing about the same when you finish it yourself.

It still comes to at least $300,which was my point.

All of my remingtons that have at least 85% contact on both lugs. You can check this when looking over a used rifle....buy one with good contact.

Simply going by the bluing worn off of the lugs can be misleading.If you blue the lugs then work the bolt,the readings can be quite different.

When I said "all stainless" I was talking about the barrel, and reciever.

If the bolt rusts,there is no point to having a stainless receiver.

This could go on forever..... I never questioned Coopers quality or accuracy. I just said you can build a "custom" rifle for a lot less than many think.

If I am going to build a custom,it will be a properly built rifle,not just a rebarreled,restocked factory rifle.Without a true action,a reliable extractor, and a good trigger,it isn't worth the effort to me.
If I was building a custom rifle today,the price with the options of my choice would be around $3000.It would offer some higher grade components than my Cooper,but it would cost half again as much.

[Pathfinder76]

And there are those that won't come within a country mile of a Sako extractor in a Remington rifle.

[double gun]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

...If the bolt rusts,there is no point to having a stainless receiver....

If that is your reasoning, why use stainless barrels or any other stainless components on builds? After all your bolt isnt stainless so there is no point....at least according to you. Infact, why blue or apply any finish to the other non-stainless parts since the bolt body isnt stainless, and doesnt have a finish applied to it.

[elkhunter11]

If that is your reasoning, why use stainless barrels or any other stainless components on builds?

Because according to several barrel makers,stainless steel resists barrel erosion better than slued steel,and therefore provides a slightly longer barrel life.

But the main reason for my comment,was that you incorrectly posted that the 700 was available in an all stainless steel rifle,which simply isn't the case.

And there are those that won't come within a country mile of a Sako extractor in a Remington rifle.

Yet many of the most respected gunbuilders use sako extractors in 700 actions.Even Stiller uses them in his 700 clones,and I haven't heard many complaints about Stiller actions.

[Pathfinder76]

I know gunbuilders that refuse to do that kind of conversion, and the Stiller isn't a retrofit.

How often have I heard this: "If you want a Sako extractor get a Sako"

[LongDraw]

Remington retrofits their own bolt for the 338 Lapua they sell with an M16 style extractor.

[elkhunter11]

I know gunbuilders that refuse to do that kind of conversion

And I know some very respected gunbuilders who don't hesitate to do this conversion.

and the Stiller isn't a retrofit.

The Stiller Pedator is a clone of the 700.Does it really matter if Stiller installs the Sako extractor or if another very capable gunsmith does it?It is the same parts,on the exact same action design.

Remington retrofits their own bolt for the 338 Lapua they sell with an M16 style extractor.

One would think that Remington would not risk the liability of compromising the safety of their own action design.