Mclean creek shut down to shooters!!!!!!!!!

[Ky bandit]

Not sure if any of you live in the Calgary area, but this will start to effect all crown land shooters. This spring the province enacted a law regarding shooting within Mclean creek. Not sure the wording of the Law, but fish and wildlife will inform you if you try. There are signs all over, and no one shooting. Went out Canada day weekend, and fish and wild life gave us a warning, but only the one! There were signs coming in, and in a few spots where I have seen others shoot. A sign whee I like to shoot, along with a fish and wildlife officer. No pellet guns, rim fires, shotguns........ No shooting within 1km of a road or trail! Use gps if unsure he said, and don't be driving your truck there. If your truck can get there, then it's a trail and you'll be too close. Same with quads. He was decent about it, not pushing authority around. Got really frustrated with the constant bombardment of upset shooters pleading there case. He also said the same was to happen in wiperous soon to. Biggest reasons sited, poor shooting directions and awful clean up practices after sessions. He pointed at a target 10' from road, and the excess of shells left behind. I can see why we are here, as I have witnessed some serious Tom Foolery and fields of shot up stuff. Don't know what to do know? Buy a membership to a range!

[elkhunter11]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...ghlight=mclean

[Grizzly Adams]

the same was to happen in wiperous soon

Grizz

[srs123]

Yup, news been outhe for a bit and I see why. Just like sib bald before it. Too many disrespectful shooters who bring anything from furniture to old appliances to shoot and never pick up their spent hulls or brass.

Let it happen,

[Cemik]

Mclean creek road area is allowed for shooting, but not close than 1km from each side of the road, we talked to AB parks guys and that is what they said. As soon as you cross this mark it common safety sense to shoot. Also agree that closing the public ranges because of some dumbs does not contribute to good and safe public shooting practise. Going to gun clubs? 300 or more membership fee? I cannot afford it, as many of shooters around. Instead I can suggest to implement a small one time attendance fee, say $5-$10, that will allow to establish a monthly cleaning service of public range by a group of volunteers. I would not mind personally to be a part of such group and provide such service for others.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Cemik

Going to gun clubs? 300 or more membership fee? I cannot afford it, as many of shooters around. Instead I can suggest to implement a small one time attendance fee, say $5-$10, that will allow to establish a monthly cleaning service of public range by a group of volunteers. I would not mind personally to be a part of such group and provide such service for others.

Only problem is gun clubs are few and far between and running at full capacity, they are already too busy. The people who pay $300 or $500 for their membership wouldn't look favourably to allowing a whole bunch of people paying a fee $5 or $10 per visit taking their space up that they have paid $300 for. Besides that few gun clubs are willing to take the liability risk of letting uninsured non members on their ranges anymore. To say nothing of the liability and insurance costs, the costs of processing and paperwork to the club for each guest permit. The real world costs would be more like $40-$50 for a one time guest visit and it would still interfere with Legitimate Range Members use of the range.

I liken your idea to a Golf Club who charges several hundred or thousands of dollars for a membership then allowing the public to drop in anytime and do a round for $25 because they have nowhere to play.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Cemik

Mclean creek road area is allowed for shooting, but not close than 1km from each side of the road, we talked to AB parks guys and that is what they said. As soon as you cross this mark it common safety sense to shoot. Also agree that closing the public ranges because of some dumbs does not contribute to good and safe public shooting practise. Going to gun clubs? 300 or more membership fee? I cannot afford it, as many of shooters around. Instead I can suggest to implement a small one time attendance fee, say $5-$10, that will allow to establish a monthly cleaning service of public range by a group of volunteers. I would not mind personally to be a part of such group and provide such service for others.

I currently have memberships at two ranges, one costs me $130 per year, the other one costs me $110 per year. When you figure in the cost of fuel, ammunition etc, the price of the range membership is a minor part of my annual shooting budget. As far as a public range with a $5 to $10 drop in fee is concerned, that simply isn't feasible. It costs considerable money to build and maintain and insure a shooting range to the required standards, and $5 to $10 drop in fees won't come close to paying the bills. As for drop in fees at private ranges, several clubs have tried that approach, but the problems associated with doing that simply was not worth it to the clubs.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Cemik

Mclean creek road area is allowed for shooting, but not close than 1km from each side of the road, we talked to AB parks guys and that is what they said. As soon as you cross this mark it common safety sense to shoot. Also agree that closing the public ranges because of some dumbs does not contribute to good and safe public shooting practise. Going to gun clubs? 300 or more membership fee? I cannot afford it, as many of shooters around. Instead I can suggest to implement a small one time attendance fee, say $5-$10, that will allow to establish a monthly cleaning service of public range by a group of volunteers. I would not mind personally to be a part of such group and provide such service for others.

What's a round of golf cost?
What's a one night fee at a campground run you?
What's dinner and a movie run for a couple these days?
What's a case of beer set you back?
What's the fee you pay for beer league hockey?
How bout the cost of a hunting license.
Or the price to insure your quad, truck, home, trailer etc.
$300 is really next to nothing, for a years use of a facility.

Even if you only go once a month or a bit more say 15 trips annually, that's $20/trip....you'll dump that much on pay per views per month I bet.

[Lornce]

Garbage & brass left behind aren't the only concerns. Danger to the public was another one very high on the list during round tables. Perhaps we have too many gun owners who lack range safety knowledge. Such a shame.

[Kaz Dog]

Originally Posted by Lornce

Garbage & brass left behind aren't the only concerns. Danger to the public was another one very high on the list during round tables. Perhaps we have too many gun owners who lack range safety knowledge. Such a shame.

I know I am late to the party with this questions, but when were the round tables? And how were the participants informed to attend, or was their public advertising done to invite input?

I was not knowledgeable about the round tables, and am curious. Thanks

[Jim]

I belong to two ranges with yearly range fees at $800, I find shooting at a range is a lot safer without having to worry about quaders, campers or any one else wondering down range. If I get the urge to go shoot a washing machine or TV set I will just have to drag one out to a farmers field.

[ishootbambi]

Im glad I have friends. If I want to shoot targets to verify a load, i head for a choice of friends place in the country. I don't have worry about the guy beside me roaring a muzzle brake or flinging hot brass out of his SKS as fast as he can pump them. I don't have to wait for anyone if I want to walk out to my target and I don't have to wonder if the stranger beside me is going to accidentally point a loaded gun at me. Cost of membership does not keep me away from the gun range...disdain of idiots does. Yes, glad I have friends.

[Faststeel]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I currently have memberships at two ranges, one costs me $130 per year, the other one costs me $110 per year. When you figure in the cost of fuel, ammunition etc, the price of the range membership is a minor part of my annual shooting budget. As far as a public range with a $5 to $10 drop in fee is concerned, that simply isn't feasible. It costs considerable money to build and maintain and insure a shooting range to the required standards, and $5 to $10 drop in fees won't come close to paying the bills. As for drop in fees at private ranges, several clubs have tried that approach, but the problems associated with doing that simply was not worth it to the clubs.

The drop in fee would need to be closer to $10.00 per hour,

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Dick284

What's a round of golf cost?
What's a one night fee at a campground run you?
What's dinner and a movie run for a couple these days?
What's a case of beer set you back?
What's the fee you pay for beer league hockey?
How bout the cost of a hunting license.
Or the price to insure your quad, truck, home, trailer etc.
$300 is really next to nothing, for a years use of a facility.

Even if you only go once a month or a bit more say 15 trips annually, that's $20/trip....you'll dump that much on pay per views per month I bet.

It's more about losing Crown land and not being able to enjoy a hobby on public property. Why should everything cost? Should there be a toll if I want to take the dogs for a walk on get on my mountain bike?

Why don't they just camp out and have a sting for unsafe discharges, and a few of those really good littering tickets that nobody seems to get?

[denied access]

Originally Posted by Dick284

What's a round of golf cost?

$300 is really next to nothing, for a years use of a facility.

.

Maybe to some people 300 is a lot of money

Crown Land. Their not protecting it for you, their protecting it from you.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

What's a round of golf cost?
What's a one night fee at a campground run you?
What's dinner and a movie run for a couple these days?
What's a case of beer set you back?
What's the fee you pay for beer league hockey?
How bout the cost of a hunting license.
Or the price to insure your quad, truck, home, trailer etc.
$300 is really next to nothing, for a years use of a facility.

Even if you only go once a month or a bit more say 15 trips annually, that's $20/trip....you'll dump that much on pay per views per month I bet.

Exactly.
Plus the money goes to upkeep etc and is way safer than a free for all gangster shoot just off a trail.
People created this mess by not cleaning up after themselves, shooting safely etc
F&W can't be everywhere given the manpower so they rely heavily on the general population to report but the majority of general population don't get involved until an area is loss due to slobs then they complain.
All you got to to is leave it better than you found it, report unlawful acts etc but then again just take a look at timmies drive through...garbage everywhere even with garbage cans close by...sad

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

Im glad I have friends. If I want to shoot targets to verify a load, i head for a choice of friends place in the country. I don't have worry about the guy beside me roaring a muzzle brake or flinging hot brass out of his SKS as fast as he can pump them. I don't have to wait for anyone if I want to walk out to my target and I don't have to wonder if the stranger beside me is going to accidentally point a loaded gun at me. Cost of membership does not keep me away from the gun range...disdain of idiots does. Yes, glad I have friends.

Agree, I am a member of a range. I also have spots on private property to shoot. Depending on what I am doing I will frequent both places to shoot.

LC

[srs123]

If I was an anti and wanted to take people guns away, I wouldn't try and push bills to reclassified or place more restrictions as this would be very obvious and shooters would react and petition it. Instead, I would make it harder for them to shoot their guns. Little by little I would restrict shooting at public lands until no shooting is allowed at all on public lands. I would then restrict range locations in urban areas due to noise and ricochet and safety concerns until the shooter has to drive 2 hours each way to shoot.

Making shooting in accessible will make people simply sell most of their guns. Think of how many people wanna buy an AR but wouldn't because it's useless and can only be shot at a range on paper targets.


This is the simplest way to disarm a majority of people

[bobinthesky]

Bingo!

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Only problem is gun clubs are few and far between and running at full capacity, they are already too busy. The people who pay $300 or $500 for their membership wouldn't look favourably to allowing a whole bunch of people paying a fee $5 or $10 per visit taking their space up that they have paid $300 for. Besides that few gun clubs are willing to take the liability risk of letting uninsured non members on their ranges anymore. To say nothing of the liability and insurance costs, the costs of processing and paperwork to the club for each guest permit. The real world costs would be more like $40-$50 for a one time guest visit and it would still interfere with Legitimate Range Members use of the range.

I liken your idea to a Golf Club who charges several hundred or thousands of dollars for a membership then allowing the public to drop in anytime and do a round for $25 because they have nowhere to play.

$300.00 is not a lot for a range membership. Be realistic about your ammo usage and gas money. You're spending well over that a year going to these locations.

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

Im glad I have friends. If I want to shoot targets to verify a load, i head for a choice of friends place in the country. I don't have worry about the guy beside me roaring a muzzle brake or flinging hot brass out of his SKS as fast as he can pump them. I don't have to wait for anyone if I want to walk out to my target and I don't have to wonder if the stranger beside me is going to accidentally point a loaded gun at me. Cost of membership does not keep me away from the gun range...disdain of idiots does. Yes, glad I have friends.

Sounds like you have a problem with your range. None of these should be major concerns at any quality range with good members.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Cemik

Mclean creek road area is allowed for shooting, but not close than 1km from each side of the road, we talked to AB parks guys and that is what they said. As soon as you cross this mark it common safety sense to shoot. Also agree that closing the public ranges because of some dumbs does not contribute to good and safe public shooting practise. Going to gun clubs? 300 or more membership fee? I cannot afford it, as many of shooters around. Instead I can suggest to implement a small one time attendance fee, say $5-$10, that will allow to establish a monthly cleaning service of public range by a group of volunteers. I would not mind personally to be a part of such group and provide such service for others.

Anywhere I have been that is popular with crown land shooters tends to have plenty of burned pallets and other misc garbage lying around, IE hidden sharp objects all over... Put a couple nails through your vehicle tires and you're at the price of a range membership plus a whole lot more headache. A shame because I vastly prefer shooting at the local gravel pit than I do at the range, but it is what it is.

I'd like to say its a very small minority ruining it for the rest of us but given the state of these areas, and how quickly they are once again polluted after being cleaned up, I would not feel comfortable making that claim.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Quinn

$300.00 is not a lot for a range membership. Be realistic about your ammo usage and gas money. You're spending well over that a year going to these locations.



Sounds like you have a problem with your range. None of these should be major concerns at any quality range with good members.

Actually the issue with braked rifles and SKS/AR brass is quite common on many ranges. Most ranges do not have barriers between benches to prevent this, and shell catchers are not mandatory for semi autos at most ranges. I choose to go to the range on weekdays when there are few other people at the range to minimize these issues.

I'd like to say its a very small minority ruining it for the rest of us but given the state of these areas, and how quickly they are once again polluted after being cleaned up, I would not feel comfortable making that claim.

It most certainly is not a small minority, and it even happens to a small extent at private ranges. The only way to stop it entirely seems to be to monitor the range with cameras, and then revoke the offender's memberships.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

It's more about losing Crown land and not being able to enjoy a hobby on public property. Why should everything cost? Should there be a toll if I want to take the dogs for a walk on get on my mountain bike?

Why don't they just camp out and have a sting for unsafe discharges, and a few of those really good littering tickets that nobody seems to get?

The dog walkers and mountain bikers are not causing any major, visible damage. Shooters and OHV users do, that's why restrictions generally go the way they do. Somebody used the phrase "Protecting crown land from us" its unfortunate but that is what it has come down to. As much as the people causing the damage are the problem, so are people who will blindly defend them or refuse to admit that we have a large scale problem. When we do that we are all lumped together. I wont do that, there is a problem and they are taking steps to fix it, if we wanted to avoid this situation we should have been more proactive in the past... only thing we can do at this point is learn from our mistake.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Quinn

$300.00 is not a lot for a range membership. Be realistic about your ammo usage and gas money. You're spending well over that a year going to these locations.

I think your not understanding my reply. I was telling the poster I was quoting the exact same thing your trying to tell me. I am a member of a range and former range executive, I still volunteer regularly. I have been involved in ranges for many decades.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I'd like to say its a very small minority ruining it for the rest of us but given the state of these areas, and how quickly they are once again polluted after being cleaned up, I would not feel comfortable making that claim.

It is not a small minority, the undesirable portion of the 'shooting' community is numerous and widespread.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Huh, I think your not understanding my reply. I was telling the poster I was quoting the exact same thing your trying to tell me. I am a member of a range and former range executive, I still volunteer regularly. I have been involved in ranges for many decades.

I am in the same position, being a former range executive, and being a long time volunteer at multiple ranges. Private ranges have a problem with finding volunteers to make improvements and to maintain the ranges. From what I have seen, we would be lucky to have even 1 % of the members that are active volunteers, the rest feel that once they pay their membership, all that they should be required to volunteer is ideas and criticism.
So given how difficult it is to maintain a private range, I don't see it being at all possible to properly run and maintain an non
monitored public range.

[Okotokian]

I was out fishing Three Point Creek at North Fork yesterday. Saw the signs. Still heard shooting that sounded like it wasn't more than a few hundred yards away.

[zader1]

This shouldn't surprise anyone. The "free" range was shut down for the same reasons... you can't fix stupid.

[JDK71]

I don't like it but it has to be done there was a county GP northwest of Sundre that was just off of the road and agood place to go sight in but every time I went there more and more garbage left behind so it has been closed as well sad to see how little some people care

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

It is not a small minority, the undesirable portion of the 'shooting' community is numerous and widespread.

https://humorinamerica.files.wordpre...-the-enemy.jpg

Hegelian dialectic: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, and antithesis, = problem, reaction, solution.
Rahm Emanual, said "never let a crisis go to waste".
Form an objective, then create a crisis that facilitates it.
Democracy's problem is that it fails to recognize the existential threat from those who would control and eliminate it.

Henry VIII banned golf because it used land needed for archery training.

IMHO, until the general population recognizes that a properly trained and armed citizenry is the best defense against tyranny, and Democide,
there will be no public will to support and facilitate that citizenry's training or armament.
What is happening today is that the agents of tyranny are using false propaganda to cultivate the general population's fear of its self,
and distracting us from the real existential threat.

Good Luck and God save us all.