shut down Thread Citing Powley as reason

[CritterCommander]

If anyone had read the whole SCC ruling on the issue of Metis and non-status FN - ie) Daniels vs Canada et al, you would know that they also discounted the ruling made in the Powley case, calling it too problematic. See APTN.ca for details.

"The court also addressed definitional criteria of who is Metis in the Powley case, which restricts who is Metis under s.35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.

Powley defines Metis as someone who self-identifies as Metis, has an ancestral connection to a historic community and acceptance by a modern Metis community.

The court found the latter problematic, as people may no longer be accepted by their communities or were separated by government policies like Indian Residential Schools.

In doing so, the high court overturned the Federal Court of Appeal’s conclusion that to be “Metis” they must meet the Powley criteria.

The Supreme Court ruling doesn’t invalidate any provincial laws pertaining to Metis and non-status Indians."


I understand why Threads get shut down but really please do it based on knowledge and not pure BS.

[purgatory.sv]

Ok, I troll.
The powley was a challenge of means?

Boundaries are in place for the harvest.

The ball is now in the court of federal rules of play?

I wish fire was the simple answer.

[nube]

I sent Lilsundance a PM about it. I haven't heard back and doubt I will. Kinda find it frustrating we can't have a decent conversation about it. If there is something we don't understand then by all means at least teach us something so we can understand not just shut it down.
These issues are a big deal. Another reason why draw times are going to increase here for the already frustrated people waiting for them longer than needs be.

[nube]

Funny how when it comes to outfitters everyone wants to speak their minds yet some are scared to talk about these type things?

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by CritterCommander

If anyone had read the whole SCC ruling on the issue of Metis and non-status FN - ie) Daniels vs Canada et al, you would know that they also discounted the ruling made in the Powley case, calling it too problematic. See APTN.ca for details.

"The court also addressed definitional criteria of who is Metis in the Powley case, which restricts who is Metis under s.35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.

Powley defines Metis as someone who self-identifies as Metis, has an ancestral connection to a historic community and acceptance by a modern Metis community.

The court found the latter problematic, as people may no longer be accepted by their communities or were separated by government policies like Indian Residential Schools.

In doing so, the high court overturned the Federal Court of Appeal’s conclusion that to be “Metis” they must meet the Powley criteria.

The Supreme Court ruling doesn’t invalidate any provincial laws pertaining to Metis and non-status Indians."


I understand why Threads get shut down but really please do it based on knowledge and not pure BS.

Your comments are valid, but they are your comments.

[lilsundance]

Nube I replied. But if you research back 99% of all Native/Metis rights threads has ended up being locked due to people not being able discuss in a rational manner and name calling and mud slinging ensues. What's the point of that when we will all have to wait to see how the Government is going react. At that point we can react and send letters to our representatives and the opposition. I will leave this open if you guys can keep it civil with no mud slinging.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by albertabighorn

Yup you do that.

I believe this comment is to support the option to express your concern to the available options.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by nube

Funny how when it comes to outfitters everyone wants to speak their minds yet some are scared to talk about these type things?

Between the outfitters and the natives she dont leave alot of room for the working class does it. It scares the hell out of me.

[South west trappin RG]

Will they self regulate an take biologist numbers to ensure all of Alberta can have a sustainable harvest? Just saying

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Between the outfitters and the natives she dont leave alot of room for the working class does it. It scares the hell out of me.

And then add the annual 200,000 + immigrants that after 3 months qualify to buy tags

[purgatory.sv]

I am not native or working class, I am poor.

We are looking at what the administrative cost will be in what is defined as reasonable?

Who do we hold responsible today?

I will now leave.

Thank you.

[HunterDave]

I thought that Metis hunting rights were already sorted out here in Alberta so any new development wrt Metis rights should have little to no effect on us. the only issue that I'm aware of was in Southern Alberta were the Metis had no traditional hunting territory. What impact, if any, is this decision going to have wrt hunting in Alberta?

[silver lab]

Metis are now considered indians. Did the Alberta gov grant indians the ability to hunt or did the fed gov do this?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Metis are now considered indians. Did the Alberta gov grant indians the ability to hunt or did the fed gov do this?

600,000 people...... Sounds Canadian.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

600,000 people...... Sounds Canadian.

I hate when you make so much sence. So i guess the Fed gov can now decide if the "new" indians can hunt in Alberta, and considering hunting rites are a big deal to the metis its gonna come up in conversation soon.

[silver lab]

I thought 600,000 was the number on how many Metis there were.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by silver lab

I hate when you make so much sence. So i guess the Fed gov can now decide if the "new" indians can hunt in Alberta, and considering hunting rites are a big deal to the metis its gonna come up in conversation soon.

As far as I know Metis in Alberta already have hunting rights so it's not a big deal here. It's other provinces where things will have to change.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Nube I replied. But if you research back 99% of all Native/Metis rights threads has ended up being locked due to people not being able discuss in a rational manner and name calling and mud slinging ensues. What's the point of that when we will all have to wait to see how the Government is going react. At that point we can react and send letters to our representatives and the opposition. I will leave this open if you guys can keep it civil with no mud slinging.

In the past, the mods agreed and followed through with a "once and for all last time" thread on this issue and said it would not be allowed ever again, remember!!!!!!

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by silver lab

Metis are now considered indians. Did the Alberta gov grant indians the ability to hunt or did the fed gov do this?

Feds

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

In the past, the mods agreed and followed through with a "once and for all last time" thread on this issue and said it would not be allowed ever again, remember!!!!!!

No thread should be shut down for no reason. If it get out of hand sure. This is a very big part of being "Alberta" "outdoorsman".

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by silver lab

No thread should be shut down for no reason. If it get out of hand sure. This is a very big part of being "Alberta" "outdoorsman".

It's not for no reason, the mods made a commitment because these threads always end up the same,,,locked,,, this one will be too

[JD848]

My family has plenty of native blood in it,Phil Fontaine and I have the same grandfathers way back,my mom was a Fontaine and my grandmother was pure micmaq or micmaw either way it is what it is.

I don't pay a lot of attention to all this fuss about being metis or native,i can get my papers but why,i don't need to live off the land or have more rights than the rest off Canadians who hunt,i spent my whole life working outside,bush ,logging,diamond drilling,guiding,piplines and applied for my tags to hunt like the rest,but if I don't kill I am not going to starve,i have grown pass the point of having to kill to prove I am a hunter.i did that part 30 years ago,so my passion is the outdoors and know one can take that from me.


Being a hunter and bushman is a very personal thing that can't be given to you you by any court,thousands of hours learning,feeding,bedding,movement at all times of the year,where they have crossed for hundreds of years and will do it for another thousand years from season to season ,so how can this deal in court really make my life as a bushman come to an end,those 600,000 are not all bushmans,lucky if there's 6000,that are true hunters,there not allowed to hunt on private land or parks and if your worried about the amount of game that will be taken your about 10 years to late, at least where I live close to northern Ontario and Manitoba populations are down as bad as 90 percent.

If I was to live way back and need to live of the land I may take this deal up,but I think that if you need the meat to survive you can take it,it's either I eat or jail.much cheaper to let me take a deer or 2,but that's if I ever change my way of living an the odds of that are slim to none,why would I .

I can still hunt and fish plus there's way more than 600,000 natives in this country and yes some do shot more than others but I can name 20 different groups who out poach any native in this country,just look at the large land owners,the ones who stole Johnny Cashes wardrobe.

I know one thing if you think the poachers in this country and are taking game illegally,it's not a native or a metis.i live in ,southern Manitoba and I see maybe one native in town once a month and everything has been shot to hell by other groups who pray all week and twice on sunday and poach the other six days a week,plus cash is not an issue,so fines mean nothing,plus not all these people are poachers either, but when you own 20000 acres and you have to drive 2 hours to see a track,something is wrong.I

f you sat down with any CO or fish and wildlife, officer they will tell you they find little hunting pressure from metis or natives,but they do know who is poaching that's for darn sure.

[Morbius131]

So far the discussion on this thread has been positive so there is no need to shut it down. Xbolt if you have an issue with the thread feel free to forward your concerns to the mods in PM to discuss but further derailment of this thread will be removed.

Morb

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Morbius131

So far the discussion on this thread has been positive so there is no need to shut it down. Xbolt if you have an issue with the thread feel free to forward your concerns to the mods in PM to discuss but further derailment of this thread will be removed.

Morb

Many many many pages of stuff there to read there

[purgatory.sv]

http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ub...wley-case.html

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/110.../1100100014420


A couple of links, they are informative and when reflected on provide information.



With what has happened today changes will occur when and how will be determined by time?

[Morbius131]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Many many many pages of stuff there to read there

There is a lot of worthwhile info.

Morb

[savagencounter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

As far as I know Metis in Alberta already have hunting rights so it's not a big deal here. It's other provinces where things will have to change.

They can hunt only within a 160km radius from their settlement and have to meet certain criteria such as ties to the settlement. Not a Metis who lives in edm or Calgary and has nothing to do with the Metis settlement they must complete an application for harvesting rights and is reviewed by fish and game. This will change with the ruling. This new ruling will override the powley case in Alberta guaranteed as it is a federal decision. I have a neighbor who is quite excited about the new areas he is hoping to hunt. Good guy but by far not the only one excited for more areas. I have a full status bud who thinks this will be terrible on game populations especially moose and elk simply due to no control measures in place at this point for added pressure besides longer draw times for non natives. And yes it is a big deal here in Alberta. Check the draw wait times.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by savagencounter

They can hunt only within a 160km radius from their settlement and have to meet certain criteria such as ties to the settlement. Not a Metis who lives in edm or Calgary and has nothing to do with the Metis settlement they must complete an application for harvesting rights and is reviewed by fish and game. This will change with the ruling. This new ruling will override the powley case in Alberta guaranteed as it is a federal decision. I have a neighbor who is quite excited about the new areas he is hoping to hunt. Good guy but by far not the only one excited for more areas. I have a full status bud who thinks this will be terrible on game populations especially moose and elk simply due to no control measures in place at this point for added pressure besides longer draw times for non natives. And yes it is a big deal here in Alberta. Check the draw wait times.

The one thing most people don't consider is how much the status Indians dislike this too. The pie just got the slices made smaller for them. There's only so much money to go round. The Metis are going to get beat up by the whites and the status Indians on this. The only group that's disliked by both. Sad really. The only support they will have is themselves

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by savagencounter

They can hunt only within a 160km radius from their settlement and have to meet certain criteria such as ties to the settlement. Not a Metis who lives in edm or Calgary and has nothing to do with the Metis settlement they must complete an application for harvesting rights and is reviewed by fish and game. This will change with the ruling. This new ruling will override the powley case in Alberta guaranteed as it is a federal decision. I have a neighbor who is quite excited about the new areas he is hoping to hunt. Good guy but by far not the only one excited for more areas. I have a full status bud who thinks this will be terrible on game populations especially moose and elk simply due to no control measures in place at this point for added pressure besides longer draw times for non natives. And yes it is a big deal here in Alberta. Check the draw wait times.

Thanks, much of that is my understanding as well wrt the 160 kms radius, etc. My thinking was that this decision won't put more hunters in the bush as they are already hunting. As far as I know, the Metis living outside of their respective communities still had to identify with one of those communities. I suppose then that the biggest concern is waiving the 160 km radius and having Metis hunters migrating to areas that they never hunted before......correct?

[KegRiver]

I spent the day on the road. This far north, CBC is the most reliable signal so guess who I listened to.

Anyway, they talked alot about this court ruling, interviewing key players and experts on the matter.

From what I heard this settles nothing. What it does is clarify Metis status as natives and therefore subject to the same rights as natives.

The details will have to be worked out is subsequent court cases.

I have mixed feelings about it all. On the one hand I'm glad. I've seen close up how the government deals with Metis, and non status natives and it's unjust to say the least. On the other hand, I've seen government run rough shod over the rights of many others who have no political clout.

Still the whole issue creates two classes of citizens and I think that works against the best interests of all concerned.

From a legal point of view it seems to me that there is only one way to proceed. And that is to honor Canada's commitments and promises.

I suspect that in the end that will do more harm then good, but a promise is a promise. A contract legal and binding.

Adding one injustice on top of another solves nothing. It's long past due, that Canada live up to the contracts and promises it made to natives and their offspring and that includes Metis.