This is what an unchecked pack can do overnight!

[nube]

Amazing to see!!
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http://www.localnews8.com/news/wolve...round/38691218
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[waterninja]

Wow, that is brutal. I know wolves are killing machines, but I always thought that when it came to larger prey they would kill enough to eat. This massacre seems unnatural even for Wolves.
No matter what sort of legal issues are hampering Game & Fish down there, you think they could petition the courts to do something about this pack.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys mentioned it on hunting forum. Large wolf packs kill for sport. Many trappers have found upto 15 deer or dozen moose killed in one night by large wolf packs. We need a bounty on wolves so trappers can keep the over population happening in Alberta in check. Nube you did a good job this winter in reducing the slaughter of our ungulate population on your Smokey River trapline.

[Redcoat27]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Guys mentioned it on hunting forum. Large wolf packs kill for sport. Many trappers have found upto 15 deer or dozen moose killed in one night by large wolf packs. We need a bounty on wolves so trappers can keep the over population happening in Alberta in check. Nube you did a good job this winter in reducing the slaughter of our ungulate population on your Smokey River trapline.

I believe a bounty on wolves would be more effective instead of current practices. It would have to be a provincial bounty in order to prevent people from cashing in on animals caught in other non paying areas. With the current state of fur prices, many lines may go untrapped.

[nube]

If they had a bounty in my area I would be shooting for a goal of 25+ a year I know that much.....

[RolHammer]

Yeah, I saw that article elsewhere too. I don't get it - what purpose does this pack behaviour serve? I mean, I'm assuming there must be some natural basis for this apparent 'killing for killing's sake' behaviour, I'm just having trouble getting my head around what that might be.

The comments in the site I saw this article liked on were bananas. People losing their minds at the predator hunters going "See? This is why."

[dugh]

I believe that the better hunter/killers teach the others, the pack becomes much more efficient and the work load shared.

[Shane s]

Saw a very similar thing years ago when I lived in BC.
Wolves chase a large number of mule deer out onto a lake from a fir ridge where they at where wintering.
Eight wolves swept the ridge chased the whole herd on to the lake killed every dear that went on to the lake if I remember correctly it was 17. They partially ate three of them. When I say they killed every dear I should point out that most of them didn't die for a very long time.
Wolves are killing machines that's how they live.
A pilot later told me he had witnessed the same kind of thing on the same lake a different year and had watched it happen he thought the wolves just got so excited that they killed everything until nothing was moving anymore . Said he kept an eye on the area over the winter and except for a few coyotes never saw any evidence that they came back to clean anything up.

[KegRiver]

I smell a rat. A big fat rat.

As judge Judy like to say, it it don't make sense it ain't true.

This one doesn't make sense. I can't see that many elk standing around watching their kin folk get slaughtered. Even though that herd is know to be overpopulated, it doesn't make sense that they would not all run for the hills as fast as they could.

Not saying Wolves wouldn't kill that many if they could, just that to find that many killed by wolves at one time and in one place would be equivalent to winning ten lotteries in a row. Both are possible, but I suspect that winning ten lotteries in a row would be more likely.

I wonder if it could be one of the many government culls that have been done in recent years and it was misreported to the media. We all know that the media can be fooled by anyone claiming to be an official or a scientist.

The anti hunting groups have got away with it many many times.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Shane s

Saw a very similar thing years ago when I lived in BC.
Wolves chase a large number of mule deer out onto a lake from a fir ridge where they at where wintering.
Eight wolves swept the ridge chased the whole herd on to the lake killed every dear that went on to the lake if I remember correctly it was 17. They partially ate three of them. When I say they killed every dear I should point out that most of them didn't die for a very long time.
Wolves are killing machines that's how they live.
A pilot later told me he had witnessed the same kind of thing on the same lake a different year and had watched it happen he thought the wolves just got so excited that they killed everything until nothing was moving anymore . Said he kept an eye on the area over the winter and except for a few coyotes never saw any evidence that they came back to clean anything up.

Like I said, I believe it does happen, but I bet that the case you talk about there were very few of those Deer found on the ice.

If they lived for days as you say then many would have almost certainly died miles from that lake.

Your story makes sense, this report does not.

[HunterDave]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ling/82249160/

I had a look at other articles regarding this incident and the above article states that Wildlife officials call this phenomena (?) a "Surplus Kill". It sounds to me like the wolves were in a killing frenzy.......like kids in a candy store. Weird.

[Shane s]

I should have also explained better.
The lake had an unusual amount of snow accumulation on it.
From the look of it the deer had a very hard time getting through it and defending themselves with their front legs.
They were in fact all on the ice however you could see where they had been dragging themselves around for quite some time probably hrs not days just was a grizzly Sean I'm sure we've all seen smaller cases of it and it is nature.
It's not all butterflies and bumblebees.
Shane

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I smell a rat. A big fat rat.

As judge Judy like to say, it it don't make sense it ain't true.

This one doesn't make sense. I can't see that many elk standing around watching their kin folk get slaughtered. Even though that herd is know to be overpopulated, it doesn't make sense that they would not all run for the hills as fast as they could.

Not saying Wolves wouldn't kill that many if they could, just that to find that many killed by wolves at one time and in one place would be equivalent to winning ten lotteries in a row. Both are possible, but I suspect that winning ten lotteries in a row would be more likely.

I wonder if it could be one of the many government culls that have been done in recent years and it was misreported to the media. We all know that the media can be fooled by anyone claiming to be an official or a scientist.

The anti hunting groups have got away with it many many times.

Im pretty sure the leos pulled the elk in a row like that. Not the wolves

Jokes aside, I dont know how big that pack is. But 2-3 wolves can pull down an elk pretty easy. Specially if they were running the herd for awhile. Wolves have incredible stamina. Probably chased that herd for 2 days before going in for the final kill. Wolves are an amazing animal. Its actually mind blowing how well a pack operates with no communication. We had the chance to watch a pack of 7 in a cattle field a few years back. Very very good thing it was fall and the calves were heavy enough the wolves couldnt knock em over pulling on their legs trying to pull em under the bottom wire. Yes we would shot a few but landowner wasnt home and we didnt have permission. Chances were good it woulda been fine trespassing and killing the wolves or atleast trying, but I wasnt willing to take that risk knowing how the landowners are in that particular area. It was something to see though. The wolves separated a cow from the herd, they tried and tried to get her on her side, after 15 min or so it was like a whistle went off. For no reason I noticed the pack quit with that cow and rushed the rest of the herd piled up in the corner of the fence. The pack ran right through the herd, cows running every where. 4 wolves jumped the fence, 3 stayed inside. They had the cattle scattering but a cow calf pair. The 3 wolves kept the pair tight to the corner while the other 4 were trying to pull the calf under the bottom wire. I dont get how they operate so flawlessly with no communication at all. Each wolf knew exactly where to be and when to be there.
That was truly a sight I will never forget. It gave me huge respect for wolves. But I wont hesitate to try and kill em any chance I have. One of the facebook hunters I follow Mark Martineu has a good name for them. He refers to them as ecoterrorists and I believe that to be true.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Shane s

I should have also explained better.
The lake had an unusual amount of snow accumulation on it.
From the look of it the deer had a very hard time getting through it and defending themselves with their front legs.
They were in fact all on the ice however you could see where they had been dragging themselves around for quite some time probably hrs not days just was a grizzly Sean I'm sure we've all seen smaller cases of it and it is nature.
It's not all butterflies and bumblebees.
Shane

That all fits for what I've heard and seen. Very believable.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

Im pretty sure the leos pulled the elk in a row like that. Not the wolves

Jokes aside, I dont know how big that pack is. But 2-3 wolves can pull down an elk pretty easy. Specially if they were running the herd for awhile. Wolves have incredible stamina. Probably chased that herd for 2 days before going in for the final kill. Wolves are an amazing animal. Its actually mind blowing how well a pack operates with no communication. We had the chance to watch a pack of 7 in a cattle field a few years back. Very very good thing it was fall and the calves were heavy enough the wolves couldnt knock em over pulling on their legs trying to pull em under the bottom wire. Yes we would shot a few but landowner wasnt home and we didnt have permission. Chances were good it woulda been fine trespassing and killing the wolves or atleast trying, but I wasnt willing to take that risk knowing how the landowners are in that particular area. It was something to see though. The wolves separated a cow from the herd, they tried and tried to get her on her side, after 15 min or so it was like a whistle went off. For no reason I noticed the pack quit with that cow and rushed the rest of the herd piled up in the corner of the fence. The pack ran right through the herd, cows running every where. 4 wolves jumped the fence, 3 stayed inside. They had the cattle scattering but a cow calf pair. The 3 wolves kept the pair tight to the corner while the other 4 were trying to pull the calf under the bottom wire. I dont get how they operate so flawlessly with no communication at all. Each wolf knew exactly where to be and when to be there.
That was truly a sight I will never forget. It gave me huge respect for wolves. But I wont hesitate to try and kill em any chance I have. One of the facebook hunters I follow Mark Martineu has a good name for them. He refers to them as ecoterrorists and I believe that to be true.

LOL Well someone certainly did. Wolves don't care about astetics.

I have no doubt Wolves are capable of such a killing spree, but this story just does not have the ring of truth to it.
To many factors don't fit.

Every report I've heard of where this happened before, the animals were hidered by deep snow or caught on smooth ice. Niether seems to be the case here.

It's still possible, if a large enough pack was involved, but that doesn't appear to be the case either.
I'm talking a super pack, fifty to a hundred wolves. No packs of that size has been reported in that area.

Such a pack is hard to miss. I've not seen one but I have on two occasions seen where such a pack went through an area. The trails were unbelievable.
I ran my skidoo down one trail and the skis did not touch the side of it. and it was packed hard. So many tracks there were no tracks visible in the trail. The only way to know it was wolves was to look at the track where one or more left the main trail for whatever reason.

One year such a pack spent the night on a Lake near my cabin. In the morning I counted 43 dog beds and there were more, I kept loosing track of the count once I got past forty. I guessed there were at least sixty wolves in that pack.

There is no mention of such a pack in the story published.

Under similar conditions a pack of around ten pulled down my sisters pet Donkey. There were around a dozen cows in that pasture and three horses but the Donkey stood it's ground and they focused on it.
By all appearances the fight lasted for hours. They did kill the donkey and did consume it but they did not injure any other animals, we suspect because they were pretty well played out from their efforts to take down that one Donkey.

In the story they say two cows and 17 calves were killed. I find it unimaginable that the other cows all left their calves to fend for themselves. I think most of us know that a mother ungulate can be a force to be reckoned with.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I'm talking a super pack, fifty to a hundred wolves. No packs of that size has been reported in that area.

And no pack that large has ever been recorded in history. Has it? Please show proof with solid evidence.

Wolf packs don't work that way. If you understood the hierarchy of a wolf pack you would understand your "super pack" theory doesn't work. Again, please show proof.

I like that, super pack

And just so we are clear on what I am responding to:

Such a pack is hard to miss. I've not seen one but I have on two occasions seen where such a pack went through an area. The trails were unbelievable.
I ran my skidoo down one trail and the skis did not touch the side of it. and it was packed hard. So many tracks there were no tracks visible in the trail. The only way to know it was wolves was to look at the track where one or more left the main trail for whatever reason.

One year such a pack spent the night on a Lake near my cabin. In the morning I counted 43 dog beds and there were more, I kept loosing track of the count once I got past forty. I guessed there were at least sixty wolves in that pack.

So you counted a bunch of beds and came up with how many wolves were in a pack? Those crazy wolves might have laid down, moved a bit and picked another bed, or two, or three, or four. Ever notice how many places a dog will lay down in your yard? I own two mutts, but after a snowstorm the yard around the house looks like I own twenty.

"Super Pack" LOL!

[parfleche]

I,m always sceptical of stuff coming from the south of our border , To believe what is purported to have happened in the picture I would need verification from really reliable sources IMO. If you look at how bad the antis make us look with their pictures you might see where I,m going.
Not saying it,s impossible just a suspicious picture .
Is this a common occurrence in this area ? Because if it isn,t , it should be ,
Why would a pack suddenly change it,s tactic,s ?
Excited delirium perhaps? LOL Perhaps one should google the total population of wolves known to inhabit this state ? Just saying.

[parfleche]

Just did a google on this story , and I have to concur that it is possible But there is no season in that state , and politics being what they are I can see even F&W getting in the mix as they are the ones that are supposed to manage these wolves , That being said I will accept the report as factual !
They were mostly calves apparently except for a couple adults.
It,s understandable why we see very few elk and moose west of Rocky Mountain House anymore.A hunter has a better chance of success east of Highway 2 !

[Talking moose]

Omg Keg!!!!
Here is a "super pack" photographed in Idaho. A very large pack indeed.
And this is how wolves travel in snow. Single file. If the wolves tracks spanned the width of a snow machine, it was because they were following a snow machine trail.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys, I do not doubt Kegs experience with the large wolf pack. Moose you are correct they will line out and follow each others trail when snow is deep. However I have seen entire cutline packed by wolves when not traveling and snow only few inches deep. You guys missed the fact that trappers have seen monster packs slaughter large numbers of ungulates in one night hunting frenzy. It is also obvious F & W gathered up the elk and skidded them into one open area to photograph the evidence of the kill.

[Big Grey Wolf]

PS OH by the way Crazy you picked a good handle for yourself. Telling Keg the wolves of his supper pack kept getting up and picking new beds is nonsense. When wolf has been running all night and he lays down to sleep he is dead tired. I have trailed a pack of wolves and caught them all sleeping under the snow and had them come jumping out like prairie chickens all around me.

[jawa]

Wolves are dogs dosnt matter if its a pack of wolves, cyotes, or pet dogs get a group together under the right conditions and they will kill everything they can call it what you want killing frenzy or pack mentality not mutch different than a mob of people rioting

Keg what was the conditions like when you seen super packs. Was game scarce and the wolves forced to form larger groups to pull down healthy animals. Most but not all of the larger packs i have seen have been formed when hunting was hard be interesting too see what others have noticed

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Omg Keg!!!!
Here is a "super pack" photographed in Idaho. A very large pack indeed.
And this is how wolves travel in snow. Single file. If the wolves tracks spanned the width of a snow machine, it was because they were following a snow machine trail.

Shows how little you know about Wolves. Sure they travel single file some times, so do a lot of creatures, even humans do it.

But do they only tavel in single file? Does anything that travels single file, always travel single file?
Do Geese always fly in V formation?

Nuff said.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Shows how little you know about Wolves. Sure they travel single file some times, so do a lot of creatures, even humans do it.

But do they only tavel in single file? Does anything that travels single file, always travel single file?
Do Geese always fly in V formation?

Nuff said.

Ever notice that when geese fly in their v formation that one sides a little longer than the other? Ya? Know why that is???
It's because there's more geese on that side silly... Lol...

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by jawa

Wolves are dogs dosnt matter if its a pack of wolves, cyotes, or pet dogs get a group together under the right conditions and they will kill everything they can call it what you want killing frenzy or pack mentality not mutch different than a mob of people rioting

Keg what was the conditions like when you seen super packs. Was game scarce and the wolves forced to form larger groups to pull down healthy animals. Most but not all of the larger packs i have seen have been formed when hunting was hard be interesting too see what others have noticed

As I said, I have never seen a super pack, only seen the signs they left.

Was game scarce when I saw those trails and beds? Yes and no.
Moose were more abundant then they are now, the Buffalo were gone, and the Deer were a fraction of what there is now and there were no elk at all.

One other thing that comes to mind, the snow was deep those years. Moose have an advantage when the snow is deep, Deer are at a great disadvantage in the same year.

Also, what I found interesting is the the local packs did not seem to join. Those super packs came from somewhere else. I have no idea where, but I do know the local packs were there before and after the super pack went through.

These packs, when they went through, it was only once in a year, they never returned. I take that not just from my experience but from the experiences of many local trappers, and farmers who also saw the trails and some reported even seeing the packs themselves. Dad was one who reported seeing an actual pack.
He claimed he counted 87 individuals in that pack.

To those who got their experience from a book, I know this sounds like fiction. I'm used to that. I get the same response when I talk about Flying Squirrels and Crow sized woodpeckers.

You want proof, go find it yourself. I don't have any need or desire to prove anything to anyone. I know what I saw and I could care less if anyone doubts my word. My friends know I do not fabricate such stories.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by talking moose

ever notice that when geese fly in their v formation that one sides a little longer than the other? Ya? Know why that is???
It's because there's more geese on that side silly... Lol...:sha_shakeshout:

ROFL

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by parfleche

I,m always sceptical of stuff coming from the south of our border , To believe what is purported to have happened in the picture I would need verification from really reliable sources IMO. If you look at how bad the antis make us look with their pictures you might see where I,m going.
Not saying it,s impossible just a suspicious picture .
Is this a common occurrence in this area ? Because if it isn,t , it should be ,
Why would a pack suddenly change it,s tactic,s ?
Excited delirium perhaps? LOL Perhaps one should google the total population of wolves known to inhabit this state ? Just saying.

Exactly.

Shallow snow, open ground, a ton of elk from what I hear, and this is the first time it's happened!

Why no photos of the damage to the animals? All I see is dead animals.
Ever read the Game Warden magazine? They know how to photograph the evidance. And they have no hesitation in publishing it, except here. Why?

[HunterDave]

Keg, do a Google search of "Wyoming Elk" and you will find numerous links to articles from well respected mainstream media outlets. Some of the articles have additional pictures.....National Geographic has close up shots. I'm always sceptical of anything written by media outlets that I'm not familiar with but this story has been picked up by the big boys......CNN, Fox News, Washington Post, etc. For reasons of integrity I'm sure that these guy's verify that the story is not a hoax. IMO this event actually happened as reported.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

You want proof, go find it yourself. I don't have any need or desire to prove anything to anyone. I know what I saw and I could care less if anyone doubts my word. My friends know I do not fabricate such stories.

You didn't actually "see" anything other than a bunch of tracks and beds. You never actually saw this super pack you speak of.

If you want us to believe your guesstimation to be true, show some pictures or facts of these "super packs".

Definition of guesstimate:
an estimate usually made without adequate information

[husky hunter]

Originally Posted by nube

Amazing to see!!
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http://www.localnews8.com/news/wolve...round/38691218
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Looks very strange....no blood or visible damage...would have to call BS on this one....