Coyote theif

[braggadoe]

unless you have trapping licenses and permission to harvest fur bearing animals on said land(crown or private). the moment you dispatch(harvest) a fur bearing animal, held in someone else's equipment. your breaking the law, plain and simple. hunting and trapping are very different. one is a commercial endeavour, the other is not.

if a person dispatched a fur bearing animal and then walked away. that would also be considered "wasting". an offence.

[coy coyote]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

unless you have trapping licenses and permission to harvest fur bearing animals on said land(crown or private). the moment you dispatch(harvest) a fur bearing animal, held in someone else's equipment. your breaking the law, plain and simple. hunting and trapping are very different. one is a commercial endeavour, the other is not.

if a person dispatched a fur bearing animal and then walked away. that would also be considered "wasting". an offence.

X2.

[Trappingman]

Originally Posted by Thunder/FX

Your interpretation of the law is so very incorrect.
The live animal in the set is NOT part of the set.
If the person has lawful access to the property for the purpose of hunting your out of line.
The dispatch of the animal is not a disturbance of the set.
Actually it is THAT simple.
Get your facts straight

What Brag said.... Get YOUR facts straight

[HunterDave]

I'd like to see the offence from the Wildlife Act that states that it is an offence to dispatch an animal in a killing trap/snare. As far as I know there is no legal requirement to salvage the pelt from a coyote on private property and it is perfectly legal to just throw it into the bush. Regardless, I find it very disheartening that anyone that calls himself an outdoorsman would be more concerned with making $100 than having compassion for an animal that he traps. Isn't that rule number one in the Code for Responsible Trapping....."Show compassion for the animals that he captures"? I won't fault any outdoorsman that is out hunting and shows that same ethic. To each their own, but I'd rather associate myself with someone like Pikeslayer22 who would dispatch the coyote with his 7mm than someone who wouldn't. I think that Parfleche said it right when he wrote ....don't lump us all in the same basket!

[coy coyote]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I'd like to see the offence from the Wildlife Act that states that it is an offence to dispatch an animal in a killing trap/snare. As far as I know there is no legal requirement to salvage the pelt from a coyote on private property and it is perfectly legal to just throw it into the bush. Regardless, I find it very disheartening that anyone that calls himself an outdoorsman would be more concerned with making $100 than having compassion for an animal that he traps. Isn't that rule number one in the Code for Responsible Trapping....."Show compassion for the animals that he captures"? I won't fault any outdoorsman that is out hunting and shows that same ethic. To each their own, but I'd rather associate myself with someone like Pikeslayer22 who would dispatch the coyote with his 7mm than someone who wouldn't. I think that Parfleche said it right when he wrote ....don't lump us all in the same basket!

I had 1000$ worth of coyotes stolen from one location last week and I should feel ok with someone driving in and dispatching snared coyotes? You tell me how your going to convince me that your only dispatching a snared coyote and don't plan on taking it. How do you want to explain to f&w that these snares aren't yours and your only dispatching coyotes. I don't know of too many people that shoot coyotes and just leave them lay. I call that poaching

[Old Timer 47]

I don't know where some people get the idea they can runaround the country shooting or killing animals in peoples snares or traps. It is illegal and if I caught you when I was trapping you would be charged.

The other thing is the humane business several people talk about. Conibear traps were not humane and had to be changed because testing proved that not some trapper. Alberta has lead the way with humane trapping and snaring with it's scientists at Vegreville. Most snaring is still not humane according to scientists and there was a study in this forum last year. Its all a big argument.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by coy coyote

I had 1000$ worth of coyotes stolen from one location last week and I should feel ok with someone driving in and dispatching snared coyotes? You tell me how your going to convince me that your only dispatching a snared coyote and don't plan on taking it. How do you want to explain to f&w that these snares aren't yours and your only dispatching coyotes. I don't know of too many people that shoot coyotes and just leave them lay. I call that poaching

Whoa, hold on a minute! Stealing coyotes is one thing but dispatching a live caught coyote in a snare is quite another. I think that everyone would agree that theft is not okay. Surely you can determine the difference between someone stealing coyotes and someone that shoots a live caught coyote in a snare, can't you?

Anyway, it does no good to try to change anyone's personal ethics, you can't legislate it, teach it from a book or tell anyone what it should be, that's why they are personal. If someone would see a live caught coyote in a snare and do nothing that's his personal business. If anyone thinks that they are going to change anyone's personal ethics to just leave it they are pretty much out of touch IMO. Country people that I've ever met have been brought up to believe that putting an animal in distress down is the right thing to do. If a cow breaks it's leg in the parlour they don't keep it alive for a week just so they can milk it longer. Understanding the way that people think that you are sharing the outdoors with can go a long way with building a rapor and cooperation, perhaps even respect from them IMO. That seems to work better for me than for people that feel entitled and expect other people to follow their personal ethics.

I don't think that Whining about dispatching a live caught snared coyote reflects very positively on trappers as a whole so I'm done. It's the anti's sending a message....whatever.

[nube]

Now it's a cow with a broken leg lol Geez Dave i am sure the farmer would love it if I blasted holes in his cow with a high powered rifle if it had a broken leg..... I am trying really hard here to bite my tounge on this topic. Good luck!

[H380]

This whole thread has lowered the standards of the trapping discussion to the knockdown ,drag em out level of the rest of the forum . Kinda pathetic. I see both sides of the arguement , yes if you dispatch an animal caught in someone elses snare you are "destroying " their property if not carefully done so . On the other hand , you are being a compassionate human being by lessening the suffering of some poor critter . Gotta be some balance in here someplace .

[parfleche]

Originally Posted by Old Timer 47

I don't know where some people get the idea they can runaround the country shooting or killing animals in peoples snares or traps. It is illegal and if I caught you when I was trapping you would be charged.

The other thing is the humane business several people talk about. Conibear traps were not humane and had to be changed because testing proved that not some trapper. Alberta has lead the way with humane trapping and snaring with it's scientists at Vegreville. Most snaring is still not humane according to scientists and there was a study in this forum last year. Its all a big argument.

Very true Coniebear traps were not exactly humane @the start ! Victor jumped on the bandwagon and because of their connections and money they were the first to sell them to trappers . Even Frank Conibear was upset at that fact himself , I have a letter here straight from him to Victor traps at the time stating his unhappiness!
As far as Alberta leading the way ? All Alberta has is the FACILITY to test these devices located in Vegreville
Any improvement done on the conibear body grip device was done down east by Sauvageaux, Belilse, Rudy , Ldl etc. THOSE are the trapper entrepreneurs who developed and improved the conibear body grip
Alberta can take credit for The singer spring due to Marty Sennecker of Hays Alberta and also the Triple M trap invented by a fellow from Debolt Alberta . Triple M stands for Mink Muskrat, and Marten a one way entrance device .ALSO one snare lock had its origins in Edson Alberta due to a fellow by the name of Raymond Thompson .
This may not have anything to do with the discussion above as it does not pertain to my post other than ,
I have my thoughts on that discussion but will leave it to the original fellows , but I felt the need to rectify your statement sir . No insult intended .
I happen to have some of Raymond Thompsons first snares and locks in possession and also quite a few of Frank Conibears original traps including the one of approximately 75 or so made in Edmonton Alberta back in the day .
Would I be more computer literate I could post pictures of these device s for all to enjoy !

[Old Timer 47]

Yes the people in Vegreville tested traps and recommended improvement which the other people made and then were tested and approved or rejected and the process is still going on. It' all done scientifically which the trap companies cannot do so I don't agree that its trappers that have met the requirements of humaneness.

As for the snares all that have been tested do not meet the standards of humaneness going back to 1980 according to the study I pointed out. Anybody that snares or looks at photos here can tell that coyotes and wolves are not killed in the allowed time. Some even have jellyhead and chewed twisted wire. One guy earlier said he checked every day and I think that's a good idea and with traps to or you will get frozen feet and broken.

[Thunder/FX]

Originally Posted by Old Timer 47

I don't know where some people get the idea they can runaround the country shooting or killing animals in peoples snares or traps. It is illegal and if I caught you when I was trapping you would be charged.

The other thing is the humane business several people talk about. Conibear traps were not humane and had to be changed because testing proved that not some trapper. Alberta has lead the way with humane trapping and snaring with it's scientists at Vegreville. Most snaring is still not humane according to scientists and there was a study in this forum last year. Its all a big argument.

Aggressive second post "old timer" or is it "Trapperwoman"

Say what you will...
Oh, and a cow is domestic "LIVESTOCK" That is owned by a farmer.
The wild coyote is NOT.
I would agree with Oldtimer, Trapperwoman and Nube, but then all of us would be wrong.

[Old Timer 47]

Can you speak English?

[Thunder/FX]

My apologies sir, (or is it Madam?)
Shall I dumb it down or are you only having trouble with the big words?

[Trappingman]

Originally Posted by Thunder/FX

My apologies sir, (or is it Madam?)
Shall I dumb it down or are you only having trouble with the big words?

What are you babbling on about??? I agree speak english, man the hell up and say what your thinking already.

[Trappingman]

Originally Posted by H380

This whole thread has lowered the standards of the trapping discussion to the knockdown ,drag em out level of the rest of the forum . Kinda pathetic. I see both sides of the arguement , yes if you dispatch an animal caught in someone elses snare you are "destroying " their property if not carefully done so . On the other hand , you are being a compassionate human being by lessening the suffering of some poor critter . Gotta be some balance in here someplace .

Sure has... Seems everytime it happens super Dave is involved.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by nube

Now it's a cow with a broken leg lol Geez Dave i am sure the farmer would love it if I blasted holes in his cow with a high powered rifle if it had a broken leg..... I am trying really hard here to bite my tounge on this topic. Good luck!

Biting your tongue might be a good idea, Phil. There might be landowner's reading your posts who wouldn't feel comfortable with your priorities and not let you step foot on their land. Good luck to you as well.

[nube]

You really are a piece of work aren't you Dave. Nice you want to keep poking eh. That's cool have at it bud.
I'm not worried one bit about my farmer friends.
Glad you got this trapping thing all figured out Dave.

[parfleche]

Well I have to respectfully disagree with you TRAPPERS were the one who came up with the better devices , AND the folks in Vegreville only established a criteria dictated by the Europeans and our government with consultation with the proper authorities AND trappers .We signed an agreement ALL had input into the devices we have now .Vegreville tested them and did have input on or recommendations BUT the fact still is, NOT one penny came from Vegreville , All of it came from the Trappers who now own the traps mentioned in my above post . Phone a Mr Collin Twitchel if he is still working on the group in Vegreville he will fill you in .I rest my case !

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by nube

You really are a piece of work aren't you Dave. Nice you want to keep poking eh. That's cool have at it bud.
I'm not worried one bit about my farmer friends.
Glad you got this trapping thing all figured out Dave.

Ya reap what you sow....take a couple of shoots at me and you can expect me to return fire. If you are comfortable with your ethics then great, there are people like Lamb Navy and Trapperwoman out there that share your values. If you want to take shots at people that have different ethics than yours, then you can have at it as well but don't whine when someone won't bend over for you.

BTW, coyotes are not made out of tannerite. I know that you don't put up your own dogs but I buy shot dogs all of the time and take the time to fix the holes, even softball sized holes if they are through the side. Hard to believe, eh? I just put up a couple last week that were shot with a 270. For anyone who wants to take the time and effort into learning how to do it, there is value in these coyotes. Some people would rather just say that the pelt is ruined and don't want to deal with it.

[Pixel Shooter]

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