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12-03-2014, 08:09 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: West Kootenays, B.C.
Posts: 445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
I my area sheep will hit 4/5 by 5.5 - 6.5yr old
I think it's good, but I'd like to see to option
For a 4/5 double broomed(no lamb tips)
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Not familiar with many sheep ranges in Alberta but from what I've seen, I have to agree with the decision. A great option is to have a limited draw for rams less than full curl to be able to catch those older broomed rams. It would be nice to see ore of those old 11 - 14 year olds.
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12-03-2014, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryry4
Well that's a little more comforting. Hopefully a good solution will come of this.
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OTher than having some time to deal with this and make our voices heard there is not much comforting about it., it is the same pile of anti-trophy hunting/ hunting induced genetic harm B S from the same few biologists. Deja vu...
The intent of the regulation change is to severely limit the harvesting of mature rams....
All in favour...... ???
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 2,515
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....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
I hunted 400 years ago well before it was full curl. At that time you didn't hardly ever see any old rams unless they snuck over from the park or BC side. The pressure on sheep here in Alberta is intense and any ram that makes legal whether it be full curl or 4/5 is dead ram in most of the province. I think it's a good thing for herd dynamics that some older rams survive whether or not they ever make legal.
There is no doubt we could use some habitat improvement and more predator control in sheep country as well, not arguing that and I'm sure almost everyone can agree on this point.
I can see a shortened season and or draw for most of the province in the near future if things don't change. The days of General sheep seasons in much of the province are numbered imo.
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__________________
Be sure of your target and what lies beyond.
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12-03-2014, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDW
Will the rules stay the same for 2015 season
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Yes
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12-03-2014, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Olds, Alberta, Canukistan.
Posts: 5,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
OTher than having some time to deal with this and make our voices heard there is not much comforting about it., it is the same pile of anti-trophy hunting/ hunting induced genetic harm B S from the same few biologists. Deja vu...
The intent of the regulation change is to severely limit the harvesting of mature rams....
All in favour...... ???
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From what I heard early it was already written in stone, it may be.
I guess it's time to make as much noise as possible.
__________________
Don't argue with a fool, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Life Member of:
Wild Sheep Foundation Alberta
Wild Sheep Foundation
NRA
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12-03-2014, 08:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingershooter
Not familiar with many sheep ranges in Alberta but from what I've seen, I have to agree with the decision. A great option is to have a limited draw for rams less than full curl to be able to catch those older broomed rams. It would be nice to see ore of those old 11 - 14 year olds.
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If your not familiar with Alberta sheep, perhaps you could be swayed into some.e education before making a decision.
Any idea on the percentage of rams die of natural mortality before the age of ten?
Srd has No intention of including a 4/5 curl draw as an addition .
That is not roses you smell.... the intent is to severly reduce the harvest of rams....
How well has the full curl system worked so far...... it has failed....
Another part of the proposal is for wmu 302and 400 to have their season shortened by one week at the end. Lol.....
Wake up.... this is the future of hunting if you allow it....
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 08:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryry4
From what I heard early it was already written in stone, it may be.
I guess it's time to make as much noise as possible.
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That's what esrd said in 2013... There are stonecarvers in our ranks....
Yes, we need to pull out the old notebooks and do it all over again.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 08:36 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingershooter
Not familiar with many sheep ranges in Alberta but from what I've seen, I have to agree with the decision. A great option is to have a limited draw for rams less than full curl to be able to catch those older broomed rams. It would be nice to see ore of those old 11 - 14 year olds.
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Al , you know first hand where I like to walk around....
I like your idea of a draw for the 4/5 rams,
This year I found two dead rams, one was dead for 2-3 years
One was last season, it was just under 4/5 with lamb tips,
It seems a like fishy to me....( I talked to F&W about it while getting mine plugged) I'll be bring it into F&W in the summer to get plugged etc
My ram would have got the passed this yr but he would have easily made full next yr as he was just a little shy of full (1/2" more would have made it)
The full curl rule isn't going to put a end to rams being taking
And the guys who have Rams figured out will still keep dropping them,
It just means that we will have to work and look harder...
(I'll email you a pic of the found dead rams once I get home from work)
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12-03-2014, 08:42 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
If your not familiar with Alberta sheep, perhaps you could be swayed into some education before making a decision.
Wake up.... this is the future of hunting if you allow it....
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And how many rams have you shot ?
(you don't have to answer because I already know)
How many people that don't want to see changes , don't have a ram on the wall?
Al , don't you have a full curl ram on your wall from Alberta?
From my honey hole?
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12-03-2014, 08:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raymond
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
And how many rams have you shot ?
(you don't have to answer because I already know)
How many people that don't want to see changes , don't have a ram on the wall?
Al , don't you have a full curl ram on your wall from Alberta?
From my honey hole?
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I have a full curl ram and I don't want to see change. Tell me why we need change. ?
__________________
Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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12-03-2014, 08:52 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
I have a full curl ram and I don't want to see change. Tell me why we need change. ?
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Dude your ram walked across the divide from BC by the mine where he managed to survive to become a great ram. He didn't spend all those years during hunting season living in Alberta.
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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12-03-2014, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
And how many rams have you shot ?
(you don't have to answer because I already know)
How many people that don't want to see changes , don't have a ram on the wall?
Al , don't you have a full curl ram on your wall from Alberta?
From my honey hole?
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I thought you were more inteligent than this....
Get back to me when you can discuss this with some maturity. .. I don't have the time to waste on the children's games.
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 08:57 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
I have a full curl ram and I don't want to see change. Tell me why we need change. ?
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I think to many young rams get shot...
Also the short rams that get shot my trigger happy newbies that can judge or score a ram, and get pulled into the bush
That would help stop that
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12-03-2014, 08:57 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raymond
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
Dude your ram walked across the divide from BC by the mine where he managed to survive to become a great ram. He didn't spend all those years during hunting season living in Alberta.
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Uh huh and...
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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12-03-2014, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raymond
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
I think to many young rams get shot...
Also the short rams that get shot my trigger happy newbies that can judge or score a ram, and get pulled into the bush
That would help stop that
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How would it help short Rams getting shot? How many short Rams are killed in 400 every year? It's no easier to judge. A squeaker 4/5 or a squeaker full curl it's all the same.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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12-03-2014, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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This is not about who is what, who shot what, ego and fragile personalities. Stop looking in the mirror and pay attention to what is really going on.
This is about Bighorn sheep and a couple of biologists who are trying to make a career promoting the idea that trophy hunting must be eliminated....
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 09:07 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
Uh huh and...
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and he was allowed to grow old. Unlike in much of Alberta where they are shot the first season they become 4/5. There is simply to many hunters competing for those barely legal rams each season. Very, very few make it past that year in which they become legal. If you want to see mature bigger rams then something has to change. Almost all the bigger Rams killed in Alberta either wander over from BC, the parks or the mines. If you just want to kill young rams then maintain the status quo.
__________________
There are some who can live without wild things, and some who cannot. Aldo Leopold
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12-03-2014, 09:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
I thought you were more inteligent than this....
Get back to me when you can discuss this with some maturity. .. I don't have the time to waste on the children's games.
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Dale, I was going to PM you this but I'll say it in front of everyone.
Your right, I'm sorry. That was uncalled for
I read your post fast, and to me it seems you where taking a jab at Al
It's my fault , I've been in the bush to long , working way to many hours
Again I'm sorry my bad
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12-03-2014, 09:21 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
How would it help short Rams getting shot? How many short Rams are killed in 400 every year? It's no easier to judge. A squeaker 4/5 or a squeaker full curl it's all the same.
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I'm not saying that no short ram will be shot
But at least short full curl, will have had a couple more yrs
To pass on there DNA
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12-03-2014, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Raymond
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
I'm not saying that no short ram will be shot
But at least short full curl, will have had a couple more yrs
To pass on there DNA
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A full curl ram has the same DNA at 15 as he does at 6. Doesn't matter when he's shot... If he has good genetics they'll be passed on either way. And moreover it's been proved that habitat and food play a greater part in horn growth.
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Hunting is APPLIED Conservation
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12-03-2014, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackPackHunter
Dale, I was going to PM you this but I'll say it in front of everyone.
Your right, I'm sorry. That was uncalled for
I read your post fast, and to me it seems you where taking a jab at Al
It's my fault , I've been in the bush to long , working way to many hours
Again I'm sorry my bad
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Appreciate the words. In any other other conversation I would have no issue with the banter. It was a long day, first getting this proposal uncovered, gettint the word out and now dealing with your punk as .... lol... that and personally having a nic fit. Ha...
This is so much more complicated than the idea that this restriction will produce a bunch of older rams you can hunt. It doesn't work that way.... some areas might produce full curl rams in some years, othere areas will likely produce very few.... most full curl rams will be young and tight curled .....
If there is no conservation concern, why make the change to reduce provincial sheep harvest by 75%.
If it is for trophy aspirations. That's greedy....
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-03-2014, 09:56 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
I'm in favour of it but would like to see an option that allowed harvesting broomed short old rams.
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X2, got screwed on that one myself once. One thought would be a minimum age for those old rams who don't qualify.
Grizz
__________________
"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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12-03-2014, 10:05 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
A full curl ram has the same DNA at 15 as he does at 6. Doesn't matter when he's shot... If he has good genetics they'll be passed on either way. And moreover it's been proved that habitat and food play a greater part in horn growth.
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I know it doesn't change
But the rams will get a couple more years of breeding
So the DNA gets to more to ewes
All this is doing is dividing us as a group , when we need to band together
for the real problem
Habitat n predators
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12-03-2014, 10:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanka
I think this is great. !! Finally a chance for a K country ram to reach full curl. A friend of mine who hunts down south a lot said to me" probaly the worst animal to be in alberta is a 4/5 legal ram in K country becAuse you know your dead as soon as a hunter lays eyes on you"
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More k country rams will die of old age and lightning , with a full curl restriction. Those genetics of huge loopy curls in k-country, will be the worst place to chase sheep..legal rams will be as plentiful as albino sheep....but im sure the flower sniffers and genetic harm gang are dancing now.
Lets not forget, they are pushing an agenda here, without any proven information. They will not allow any independent studies to be preformed...nor will they release any of their studies and information. They still cant even agree how to properly age a ram... each officer and office does it differently.
This is nothing but a pipe dream from the gentic harm gang, to manage hunters...nothing more.
__________________
How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait ....
Last edited by pottymouth; 12-03-2014 at 10:27 PM.
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12-03-2014, 10:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,177
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Just a observation here. But aren't the guys that are for this change, don't most of you hunt the northren zones. And the guys against the ones that mostly hunt the affected zones? If you think there were lots of sheep hunters on aug 25 this year wait till 2016... Oh ya I'm against it. I think it's a load of *****. Esrd needs to look at the real problem and stop blaming everything on hunters and taking our opportunities away. Just let me know where to sign or who to get affiliated with to fight this bs.
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12-03-2014, 10:21 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lr1000
Just a observation here. But aren't the guys that are for this change, don't most of you hunt the northren zones. And the guys against the ones that mostly hunt the affected zones? If you think there were lots of sheep hunters on aug 25 this year wait till 2016... Oh ya I'm against it. I think it's a load of *****. Esrd needs to look at the real problem and stop blaming everything on hunters and taking our opportunities away. Just let me know where to sign or who to get affiliated with to fight this bs.
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I'm in the affected zones
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12-03-2014, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,177
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I wish it was like fb and I could like post. So far I like WB posts.
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12-04-2014, 01:10 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksteed17
I have a full curl ram and I don't want to see change. Tell me why we need change. ?
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Pretty funny. When you guys shot that ram you really had no clue what you were looking at. I remember the story clearly. Now just a few short years later your a big sheep expert...
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12-04-2014, 01:12 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdub
and he was allowed to grow old. Unlike in much of Alberta where they are shot the first season they become 4/5. There is simply to many hunters competing for those barely legal rams each season. Very, very few make it past that year in which they become legal. If you want to see mature bigger rams then something has to change. Almost all the bigger Rams killed in Alberta either wander over from BC, the parks or the mines. If you just want to kill young rams then maintain the status quo.
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I agree bdub.
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12-04-2014, 01:32 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
It doesn't work that way.... some areas might produce full curl rams in some years, othere areas will likely produce very few.... most full curl rams will be young and tight curled .....
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So is this your opinion or do you have solid evidence that you can show us to prove it?
I know what areas wont produce as many, please show evidence for the rest and why it wont work.
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