Is promoting marrying 15 & 16 year old girls smart?

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I posted and singled out your post because of how you worded your post about people who advocate for marriage also advocating for pedophilia. Perhaps I took your post the wrong way, but it kind of sounded like you didn't understand why Phil was being chastised in the media for his comments about marriage.

I also work with a lot of divorced parents in a support group. Most are men that come to the group, but many are their mother's or current girlfriends or wives who want to understand why their men have been screwed over by the courts. Many have been denied jobs or laid off after MEP gets involved. Also many get asked how their previous job ended, and they tell the truth that they were laid off after MEP garnished their wages. Also some guys don't have a license, and it wouldn't be an issue if it was not for the fact that they say it was due to MEP taking it away. Lots of pretty unjust stories abound due to the draconian practices of our courts and MEP, and often they are based on half the facts by a biased judge or case worker.

I don't necessarily want to make divorce more difficult, I just want it to be fair. I don't want one person to be able to unilaterally divorce the other person and make him pay for it by also taking his children and assets. The worst thing that happened when they made no fault divorce was it did not hold anyone accountable for their actions. Before you needed to have a reason to divorce, and adultery was one of the biggest reasons used, and the person who committed the adultery was punished for the breakdown of the marriage. Since no fault divorce, it has given women (and it is women who have the power) the ability to have an affair, and then move in new boyfriend into the home and make former husband pay for it. This is just wrong.

As for your contention that a young woman who has children and gets married young can't better herself is just wrong. There is nothing holding her back from going to school to advance her self. The only thing holding her back is her own laziness, or insecurity.

I see where you're coming from and agree with some of it.

However, I do see a problem with children having children. It is not an ideal situation for most. A girl at 15 has a grade 10 education at best. I think the stumbling blocks and inherent difficulties she is going to have to face in bettering herself and situation are obvious. Maybe the 18 yr old man can be that person that gives the family the financial and emotional support that is needed. I do not think that your typical 18yr old is ready for this.

I think she is going to need a lot of assistance from family, friends and her employer to get it done. It would have been a lot easier road had she made the right decisions earlier. I also think that they would be the first one to tell you that.

I think there is a little more holding her back than her laziness or insecurity. Two mouths to feed, little education and very little life experience top the list.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

I see where you're coming from and agree with some of it.

However, I do see a problem with children having children. It is not an ideal situation for most. A girl at 15 has a grade 10 education at best. I think the stumbling blocks and inherent difficulties she is going to have to face in bettering herself and situation are obvious. Maybe the 18 yr old man can be that person that gives the family the financial and emotional support that is needed. I do not think that your typical 18yr old is ready for this.

I think she is going to need a lot of assistance from family, friends and her employer to get it done. It would have been a lot easier road had she made the right decisions earlier. I also think that they would be the first one to tell you that.

I think there is a little more holding her back than her laziness or insecurity. Two mouths to feed, little education and very little life experience top the list.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone our youth are mature enough for marriage yet alone having children until they are in their mid to late 20s, if not later. But for those that do end up getting pregnant as a teen, I think marriage would be better for them, as it opens them up to two families to help support them both emotionally, as well physically.

And children grow up. Parents don't need to be stuck at home watching their children until they are in their teens. There are day cares and schools that provide proper child care for parents, freeing up these young girls to go back to school. Also there are lots of schools that now have day cares in the school so that the mother can put the child in while upgrading their education. Furthermore with technology, there are many online programs that these kids can take to get them formal education and help them advance their skills.

I still think that our society really does not do enough to support marriage anymore, and that is a real shame.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

What I find ironic is how you keep complaining about it.

Why don't you get in on the conversation instead of wasting everyone's time.

Got no opinion on why our society is screwed up? Don't think our family law is screwed up? Or do you think all guys deserve to be shafted?

If you love my ex wife so much, I'll give you her number, and you can get involved with her. And in six months when she ruins your life, you can come and tell us all about it.

I have, but I guess you don't really follow.

BTW its twice now I mentioned it. How many times have you mentioned your hate for all things women and specifically your ex?

I don't think our society is screwed up. I have posted what I think.

I was chatting with someone about the same age as I and the topic of the youth of today being entitled and lazy. His response is that they communicate differently than other generations. Made me think.

Again, take the rose colored glasses off of the past. Things weren't all that great 20 or 30 or more years ago.

Look around, things are better today than at any time in history. But if all you want to do is sit around as a bitter broken man, that is fine by me. I just choose to see positives.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone our youth are mature enough for marriage yet alone having children until they are in their mid to late 20s, if not later. But for those that do end up getting pregnant as a teen, I think marriage would be better for them, as it opens them up to two families to help support them both emotionally, as well physically.

And children grow up. Parents don't need to be stuck at home watching their children until they are in their teens. There are day cares and schools that provide proper child care for parents, freeing up these young girls to go back to school. Also there are lots of schools that now have day cares in the school so that the mother can put the child in while upgrading their education. Furthermore with technology, there are many online programs that these kids can take to get them formal education and help them advance their skills.

I still think that our society really does not do enough to support marriage anymore, and that is a real shame.

I think that we're on the same page.

My Wife stayed home until our kids were of school age and that took 8 years. Thankfully she is University educated and entered the workforce rather easily after that time. Had she only had a grade 10 education it would have been different. She may have found a job but it would have been very entry level and likely barely cover the cost of daycare. If both of us had these types of jobs we would be scraping by at best.

There are lots of programs out there that are designed to help and it is not a hopeless situation. I would not envy the task of going through it.

God knows I wasn't ready for anything like that until I was in my mid 20's....and managed to duck bullets until "the one" set her claws into me in my 30's. Crap, we were married for 3 years when we found out "we" were pregnant. Was I happy...you bet. Scared chitless....you bet. Could I have done it at 17 when I graduated high school?? Probably....but it would have been a tough haul and I truly don't think I'd be where I am today.

I don't think it is society that doesn't support marriage. It's a decision for individuals and not to be taken lightly. I look at it as a contract for life and I'm in it. It guides the decisions that I make. I do not make decisions with me at the forefront anymore. It is not that easy. It is all about our family.

I was not ready/capable to make these decisions at 18. To be brutally honest, I was not a "man" and very focused on what I wanted to do. Being a man means taking it on the chin sometimes for the overall betterment of the family. Asking an immature adult to make these decisions is like beating your head against a wall. They are still the centre of their universe. It would be rare to find an individual that will thrive in that situation imo.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

I have, but I guess you don't really follow.

BTW its twice now I mentioned it. How many times have you mentioned your hate for all things women and specifically your ex?

I don't think our society is screwed up. I have posted what I think.

I was chatting with someone about the same age as I and the topic of the youth of today being entitled and lazy. His response is that they communicate differently than other generations. Made me think.

Again, take the rose colored glasses off of the past. Things weren't all that great 20 or 30 or more years ago.

Look around, things are better today than at any time in history. But if all you want to do is sit around as a bitter broken man, that is fine by me. I just choose to see positives.

I am far from a broken bitter man. I am however angry when my ex pushes the envelope and harms the kids with her desire to ruin my time with them, because all she is doing is harming the kids. If you can't understand that, then you are blind.

And I don't think I have ever said anything about things being better 20-30 years ago, but I will say families were stronger back then. And Just for the record, no fault divorce laws have been the law since 1968, and this has been an abysmal failure, and has in my opinion been a large reason why we have much of the problems with our society today.

And it has been twice this week you have been vocal about my complaints about divorce.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I am far from a broken bitter man. I am however angry when my ex pushes the envelope and harms the kids with her desire to ruin my time with them, because all she is doing is harming the kids. If you can't understand that, then you are blind.

And I don't think I have ever said anything about things being better 20-30 years ago, but I will say families were stronger back then. And Just for the record, no fault divorce laws have been the law since 1968, and this has been an abysmal failure, and has in my opinion been a large reason why we have much of the problems with our society today.

And it has been twice this week you have been vocal about my complaints about divorce.

Not blind, just tired of it. So you agree with me that its been twice?

No you have just been blasting all things women. Gives the impression that all women are evil and should never have been let out of the kitchen.

So the easy divorce laws are the down fall to society, but you want people to marry just because someone got knocked up. Isn't that how you got f'ked over? To me it is just a bit ironic. Hey I get it, some people need to be divorced. I just don't think its the down fall of society.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

Not blind, just tired of it. So you agree with me that its been twice?

No you have just been blasting all things women. Gives the impression that all women are evil and should never have been let out of the kitchen.

So the easy divorce laws are the down fall to society, but you want people to marry just because someone got knocked up. Isn't that how you got f'ked over? To me it is just a bit ironic. Hey I get it, some people need to be divorced. I just don't think its the down fall of society.

I don't agree with much of anything you say. I will say it has been twice this week alone.

You really got quite an opinion of my life, and none of it is correct. I don't think everyone who gets a person "knocked up" should get married. However I do think that if people took responsibility for their actions, then things would be better. And the last place I think women should be is "in the kitchen". I have never made any statements that could ever be twisted into that. How I got f'ked is my ex said she loved me, and I did love her at the time. I already had committed to marriage before she got pregnant. (without discussing it with me) However what I did not understand at the time, was that she most likely is bi-polar, and suffers from huge emotional issues.

I find no fault divorce as a large reason why we have such abysmal outcomes for children post divorce, because it gives one party power to make unilateral actions at the expense of the other party, and in our system, it is usually women (70%) who file divorce, and this is because they are almost guaranteed to get custody and child support (90%).

Furthermore I don't blast all things women. I don't like feminists, and that is not blasting all things women, since men can be feminists too. Feminism is far from recognizing all women. In fact Feminism is about destroying man. Just read what some of the leaders of feminism think, and you will understand why it is evil.

Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership.
Andrea Dworkin

Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.
Andrea Dworkin

Most women are one man away from welfare.
Gloria Steinem

If women have young children, they are one man away from welfare.
Gloria Steinem

"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan

Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage. -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon



And it is these kind of women, supported by government ministries as Status of Women Canada, which is also the ministry that funds the training of our judges.

[bigjohncdn]

Some of these threads just make me laugh!

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by bigjohncdn

Some of these threads just make me laugh!

I take it you don't have a daughter

But ya....this one is gettin' too deep for me. I'm off to the hunting forum for the duration of the night I think

[BeeGuy]

Wut? no pics?

[rwm1273]

Andrea Dworkin

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Wut? no pics?

He came through with one BeeGuy......you owe us all a beer

RWM....not cool. The guy that posted the dead pig earlier and least put a WARNING on the thread!!!!

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Andrea Dworkin

Im thinkin she's single?

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

Im thinkin she's single?

She's dead.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

He came through with one BeeGuy......you owe us all a beer

RWM....not cool. The guy that posted the dead pig earlier and least put a WARNING on the thread!!!!

I guess I should have posted a warning for posting a picture of a dead pig.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Andrea Dworkin

That explains the quotes, she couldn't get a monkey to hump her if she had a bag full of bananas.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by KCL

That explains the quotes, she couldn't get a monkey to hump her if she had a bag full of bananas.

She claimed she had medical issues because she was raped, yet never connected the dots between her obesity to her medical issues, largely because then she would have nobody to blame but herself.

Doctors tell me that there is no medical truth to my notion that the rape caused this sickness or what happened after it. I believe I am right: it was the rape. They don’t know because they have never looked.

She was one nasty beast. Yet she was well respected in the feminist community, and was well funded to spout off her vile mouth. And many women just lapped up her work, and governments were scared to do anything against what she and her ilk spoke about, but just gave her and the feminists grants to let them carry on her tirades about men and boys and the evils of marriage.

When young women put on the Dworkin x-ray specs for a moment, they see female victims everywhere - not just in the sex industry. Women who like porn, any women who has been seduced by a man, women in the gym, women who wear make up ... and any of us who do not see the penis as a "symbol of terror" must have been brainwashed by misogynist culture. "We ingested it as children whole, had its values and consciousness imprinted on our minds as cultural absolutes," Dworkin wrote in Woman Hating in 1974.

An interesting article on her had this to say about her and those who still push her work and legacy:


http://regressiveanalysis.com/tag/andrea-dworkin/

That article was about the commercial where the ladies are having a baby shower, and the one woman gave the mother a rape whistle, and claims that 1 in 2 girls will be raped in their lifetime. It talks about how well funded these women are, and that it is funding from both government grants, and corporate sponsors who give them funding to produce such lies against men. Some of their corporate sponsors for this hate speech is from Winners, HomeSense, and Rogers, plus our own government.

[bigjohncdn]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

I take it you don't have a daughter

But ya....this one is gettin' too deep for me. I'm off to the hunting forum for the duration of the night I think

Actually, I do have a daughter. Still, hilarious thread.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Andrea Dworkin

seems a little bitter.

[bison]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

My original post is what came to mind after reading DataOverMinds post so I think ya kind of jumped the gun on me but whatever.

So set a number as to what you think is acceptable. I'll fall in with the 18 although I do not know many 18 years olds that are ready to make that step. It does have to be set somewhere.

As far as dropping the age of consent to the low teens.....I think it creates opprotunity where it does not need to be. The courts can hear it and make a decision.

Here's a very likely scenario. 18 and 15 year olds get married in todays entitled society. She has no education and he starts making decent money because he works a lot....like a mans "supposed" to. She is a stay at home Mom and is pigeon holed into that or some low paying job that doesn't cover daycare. The easiest way for her to get any quick bucks is to crap all over the guy that she never see's cuz he's at work, is always tired, pizzed cuz the money just ain't enough.....real world problems.

I agree....she's gonna walk and it ain't gonna be pretty.

You want to make divorce more difficult?? I'm not sure how to do that....maybe make it more difficult to get married.....you know...only do it if you really want to

I'm not sure how many people have been turned down jobs because MEP involvement in their lives. I have never felt it necessary to put the fact that I have children on my resume.

Isn't that the natural role of a woman since the dawn of time?
It is 90 % of the time the behaviour of the male that causes the issues.

just saying.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

She's dead.

That is too bad.