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01-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3blade
The ABA is part of the hunting community. So are you. So am I. So is anyone who legally particapates in the pursuit of wild game. Your bashing the ABA is no different than their brain dead idea of a spear ban. Weapons restrictions need to be in place for management purposes because some are more efficient than others. anyone who can't handle that is just being selfish.
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Except for spear chuckers right? Because they don't legally participate in the pursuit of wild game......Wait a minute! They DO legally participate in the pursuit of wild game, don't they? So, who's being selfish here, the hunters that want to use spears to hunt with or the organization that wants to make that form of hunting illegal? If you can rationalize that then good for you.
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01-04-2014, 08:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave
Except for spear chuckers right? Because they don't legally participate in the pursuit of wild game......Wait a minute! They DO legally participate in the pursuit of wild game, don't they? So, who's being selfish here, the hunters that want to use spears to hunt with or the organization that wants to make that form of hunting illegal? If you can rationalize that then good for you.
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Both times I've said I don't agree with the spear ban. Heck I've tossed the idea around as a moose hunt for the last couple years. And I'm not an ABA member.
The people who are being selfish are:
In this case, the boneheads currently at the top of the ABA. Too many bow hunters?? Yeah that about does it for credibility.
Previously:
the people who can't be bothered to learn to shoot a bow and demanded crossbow privileges (or the manufactures that sponsored said activity)
The people who wanted to ban bow hunting. And still do.
Whoever decided bow hunters should only get 15% of the harvest.
So we have a great history of sitting around watching outfitters take over while we snarl at each other over the scraps.
To sum it up: ABA-brain fart but not the root of all evil
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01-04-2014, 09:19 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls for hunting Big game
1. Few hunters use spears/atlatls.
2. They are truly "primitive" weapons.
3. There are Youtube videos using spears/atlatls that are not very flattering.
4. It is hard for hunting groups and governments to defend their use to non-hunters.
5. Spear/Atlatl use might bring unwanted attention to other weapons used for hunting big game.
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However thought this up is an idiot. All of these points, (excluding the first) could also be used against bow hunting.
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01-04-2014, 11:36 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CANADA
Posts: 6,286
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Wow Special interest groups directing SRD
Hunting is basic and historic in its many forms
here is the one they want to ban
http://www.thejump.net/outdoor-video...-with-a-spear/
very professional
ABA please defeat this ban motion
David
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Scientific and Analytical Angler/Hunter
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01-05-2014, 12:17 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,826
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I wonder just how many posting here have ever held a hunting spear, or atalal ? and have actualy used them , even if just in target practice?
I have tried the atalal a couple times, on a 3D deer target, { I suck with it}and did get the chance to toy around with a Massai Spear in Africa.{even worse}
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01-05-2014, 12:19 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew
I wonder just how many posting here have ever held a hunting spear, or atalal ? and have actualy used them , even if just in target practice?
I have tried the atalal a couple times, on a 3D deer target, { I suck with it}and did get the chance to toy around with a Massai Spear in Africa.{even worse}
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Yup, killed a few rabbits but nothing big.
Cat
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Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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01-05-2014, 12:38 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Interesting to hear if anyone has used a spear or atlatl for big game ever?
LC
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01-05-2014, 01:23 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,497
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I don't get whats so "unflattering" about youtube spear hunting videos. The animal gets hit then runs off somewhere and dies. The hunter follows the blood trail and finds the animal. No different than a deer being shot with a bow, or rifle. At the end of the blood trail theres a dead animal. Sure some might get away, but that happens every year with rifles and bows in some part of the Country. Fenced hunting, but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmOzW1KEKA
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save a tree kill a beaver
Chuck Norris can bump fire a bolt action
"A predators heart knows no remorse. It lives for the hunt, a natural force."
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01-05-2014, 02:09 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 773
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Let's just ban everything and do whatever the anti-hunters want!
I say ****** them!
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01-05-2014, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Red Deer / West Lake
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trophyboy
Let's just ban everything and do whatever the anti-hunters want!
I say ****** them!
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Yes indeed the key to success for the anti hunting groups is for us to continue fighting among ourselves it's the only way the hunting community can successfully allow anti hunting groups to walk in and finish of a group suffering from self inflicted wounds weak an unable to defend itself. What a shame!
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01-05-2014, 09:46 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Bear
Yes indeed the key to success for the anti hunting groups is for us to continue fighting among ourselves it's the only way the hunting community can successfully allow anti hunting groups to walk in and finish of a group suffering from self inflicted wounds weak an unable to defend itself. What a shame!
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Alberta has lots of hunters, lots of money and lots of possible hunting opportunity. When economic greed and selfishness spills over into hunting, and people are forced to make a stand, the internal discussion (or what you call fighting) is necessary.
Im not going to turn a blind eye to some of this bull**** because the anti's might eventually take over. The key is to build a fair and auditable hunting system that will stand the test of time. With this in place, the anti's and the selfish or business orientated groups will be much easier to handle.
The "shame" isn't in taking a stand on these topics. It is in having to.
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01-05-2014, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Red Deer / West Lake
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
Alberta has lots of hunters, lots of money and lots of possible hunting opportunity. When economic greed and selfishness spills over into hunting, and people are forced to make a stand, the internal discussion (or what you call fighting) is necessary.
Im not going to turn a blind eye to some of this bull**** because the anti's might eventually take over. The key is to build a fair and auditable hunting system that will stand the test of time. With this in place, the anti's and the selfish or business orientated groups will be much easier to handle.
The "shame" isn't in taking a stand on these topics. It is in having to.
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Discussions must take place agreed, the quarrel or fight is in the attempt to eliminate or outlaw a method of hunting based on opinion rather than fact, this is like the proposed restriction of the BMG these actions create footholds for further actions. These are not discussions these are backdoor attempts to stop something without honest dialogue the result is a fight rather than a discussion. In this case every argument for a bann on spears can be used for archery and rifle or gun hunting the truth is the. Method used to hunt is only as effective as the hunter.
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01-05-2014, 11:05 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Bear
Yes indeed the key to success for the anti hunting groups is for us to continue fighting among ourselves it's the only way the hunting community can successfully allow anti hunting groups to walk in and finish of a group suffering from self inflicted wounds weak an unable to defend itself. What a shame!
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Donny, do you know what position SCI Alberta has taken on this resolution? Will they oppose it?
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The ABA is not the only group trying to have these legal weapons banned for the sake of eliminating any potential anti-hunting complaints in the future, some employees of the Alberta government (ESRD F&W Policy) are also on board with the idea.
Alberta F&W will also be tabling a proposal to "Limit types of legal weapons allowed during an open season".
I will post up any details of the Alberta F&W proposal that I can obtain.
It's great to hear that many agree that we must not start banning legal weapons for the sake of appeasing anti-hunters. However, people must do more than post on this forum.
Everyone opposed to this resolution needs to contact the various AGMAG representatives or this spear/atlatl ban will pass. Defeating this ABA resolution will ultimately come down to a vote at the AGMAG meetings and convincing F&W that this is the wrong road to travel. Please take the time to write the following contacts and Request A Response to your letter.
Allen, Jim
Head - Wildlife Management Policy
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
E-mail: james.allen@gov.ab.ca
Pat Dunford
Head, Legislative and Advisory Services
Environment and Sustainable Resource Development
Email: Pat.Dunford@gov.ab.ca
Ian Stuart
Alberta Fish and Game association - (Hunting Chair)
Email: mooseridge2@gmail.com
Brent Watson
Alberta Bowhunters Association - President
Email: brent@albertabowhunters.com
Tim McKinnon
SCI Northern Alberta– President / Membership
Email: tim.mckinnon@bunzlcanada.ca
Pat Long
Wild Sheep Foundation Alberta- President
pelong@telus.net
Glenn Brown
Alberta Professional Outfitter Society - president
Email: bluebronna@gmail.com
Bob Gruszecki
Hunting For Tomorrow Foundation- Chairman
Email: robert_gruszecki@ezpost.com
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01-05-2014, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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SCI Red Deer Mission Statement
SCI Red Deer & District Chapter Mission Statement
We will promote good fellowship among all who love the outdoors. Always working to educate and mentor people of all ages. We will champion conservation of the world’s renewable resources. Promoting proper management of fish and wildlife, while demonstrating the roles of hunting and fishing as the most responsible and effective means of conservation in a modern world. We will seek to build community, meet the needs of others and protecting our environment. A nonprofit organization promoting values, ethics and passion; in the hopes of creating and sustaining a bright future
for outdoor enthusiast, of all ages for many generations to come.
There is a bow hunting division within SCI.
The Bowhunters Chapter of Safari Club International
Mission Statement
“The Bowhunters Chapter of Safari Club International, in a cultural environment rife with anti-hunting sentiment, has, at its heart, the promotion and protection of bowhunting, and the rights of bowhunters, around the world. Accomplishing this mandate will require focusing the energy and resources of bowhunters, around the globe, on education, conservation and humanitarian efforts around the world, and providing a platform from which to recognize outstanding achievement in those areas, as well as in bowhunting itself. It is a foundational belief in the good and wholesome nature of our endeavors, practiced ethically and in a sportsmanlike manner, that is the cornerstone of our mission.”
What division would spear hunting and atlatl fall into?
LC
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Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 01-05-2014 at 11:18 AM.
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01-05-2014, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,398
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NBFK, Cole O'Neill (ABA Secretary),
In case you missed these questions asked to you earlier.
As an ABA executive, you have stated here that you are 100% in favour of this resolution to ban spars/atlatls based on
"The concern among the hunting fraternity is the negative publicity and damage to the image of hunters/hunting that could arise from the general public (and even other hunters) if the use of these weapons in hunting situations make it to the print, television, internet, social medias."
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Can you explain how the ABA determined that the "hunting fraternity" is concerned that the use of spears/atlatls could damage our image?
Do you believe that spears/atlatls cannot be used efficiently/humanely as a hunting tool?
Why do you support this resolution?
Did the proposal go before the general membership in ANY way?
And if yes, How and what was the response?
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01-05-2014, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Red Deer / West Lake
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
SCI Red Deer Mission Statement
SCI Red Deer & District Chapter Mission Statement
We will promote good fellowship among all who love the outdoors. Always working to educate and mentor people of all ages. We will champion conservation of the world’s renewable resources. Promoting proper management of fish and wildlife, while demonstrating the roles of hunting and fishing as the most responsible and effective means of conservation in a modern world. We will seek to build community, meet the needs of others and protecting our environment. A nonprofit organization promoting values, ethics and passion; in the hopes of creating and sustaining a bright future
for outdoor enthusiast, of all ages for many generations to come.
There is a bow hunting division within SCI.
The Bowhunters Chapter of Safari Club International
Mission Statement
“The Bowhunters Chapter of Safari Club International, in a cultural environment rife with anti-hunting sentiment, has, at its heart, the promotion and protection of bowhunting, and the rights of bowhunters, around the world. Accomplishing this mandate will require focusing the energy and resources of bowhunters, around the globe, on education, conservation and humanitarian efforts around the world, and providing a platform from which to recognize outstanding achievement in those areas, as well as in bowhunting itself. It is a foundational belief in the good and wholesome nature of our endeavors, practiced ethically and in a sportsmanlike manner, that is the cornerstone of our mission.”
What division would spear hunting and atlatl fall into?
LC
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I can not speak for SCI as a whole and this for me is a very new discussion while we support regulation that sets minimum standards to insure the most ethical approach to give method of hunting is adhered to, my belief is that there would be support for people to pursue thier passion inclusive of spear hunts. I know that Mr. Nesbitt made great sacrifices of time and finance to get the first archery elephant tag 0001 I believe in Zim if my memory serves me correct. It was considered by many to be wrong and dangerous and unethical but he proved that it could be done ethically. I will bring this topic up with or Presidents at our meeting. In the end SCI is first for Hunters and Hunters rights so it is not likely that you will see us looking to take away a right to Hunt once again ethics is whats behind the Barrel, bow or Spear.
D.M.
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01-05-2014, 01:52 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,163
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Is there an Outdoors/Hunting organization in Alberta that is not cuddled up with the Outfitters? Those APOS members seem to be rather insidious.
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01-06-2014, 01:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Back in Lethbridge
Posts: 4,647
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It sounds like the next AGMAG meeting is scheduled for 14th of this month, at which this ABA proposal will be discussed (voted on).
I am seriously concerned how the AGMAG operates; a proposal from one member organization (or individual... or executive) is voted on by the other organization's representatives without any required consultation with their respective groups. This is the Alberta Government's idea of public "consultation".
While the vast majority of hunters in this province could probably care less if spears and atlatls are banned, please realize that this sets a serious and dangerous precedence. IMO it is a significant step in dividing and fractioning of the hunting community, very similar to the division that occurred before C68 was rammed down our throats (hunters saw no reason why the AR15 shouldn't be restricted, cause hey, who needs to hunt with one, right?).
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact whatever hunting organization you belong to, preferably your organization's representative on the AGMAG and let them know that this is a wrong-headed move on the part of the ABA and that you expect them to represent all hunters in this province and vote against this proposal!
Time is short. There is a very real chance that this may pass at AGMAG and the government will run with it... as they appear to do every time there is a chance to remove/reduce hunter opportunity in this province.
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01-06-2014, 01:40 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Uh, guess? :)
Posts: 26,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
I'm not asking for any opinions on this matter, just telling you how it is and what will be.
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LOL Now that worked well, didn't it?
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01-06-2014, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 5,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
LOL Now that worked well, didn't it?
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Why ask for them when you know you're guaranteed to get all you want and then some?
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01-06-2014, 03:12 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 2,680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff
I have an "out" for the ABA...
Tell everyone that your account was hacked since no one would ever propose something so stupid.
There. Now take the out and try to save face.
Hunters vs Hunters. The idiotic antics continue
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Some folks will just never get it.
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01-06-2014, 07:59 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 2,482
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Without hanging me from the gallows, what in the proposition are people so offended about. ? People seem to be all over the map its confusing.
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01-06-2014, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBF
Without hanging me from the gallows, what in the proposition are people so offended about. ? People seem to be all over the map its confusing.
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Where does it end? Ban this...then that.....then that......
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01-06-2014, 08:35 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 2,482
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If we are really worried about divisions amongst ourselves, maybe the best thing to do is shut the forum down completely.
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01-06-2014, 08:50 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albert
Posts: 817
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My bad. I thought you guys we're trying to build a case to ban Britney Spears...
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01-07-2014, 12:35 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nait Hadya
Is there an Outdoors/Hunting organization in Alberta that is not cuddled up with the Outfitters? Those APOS members seem to be rather insidious.
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Good question.
It certainly speaks volumes about the credibility of those leading the way for their membership.
It also makes one wonder how many local chapters are being steered by members who are also members of APOS.
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01-07-2014, 01:09 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Iron River
Posts: 5,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speckle55
Wow Special interest groups directing SRD
David
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Happens in this neck of the woods all the time.
A game farmer and his inbred jed inlaw who is a former MD councillor dictate what happens with wild free range elk.
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01-07-2014, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Show of hands.....how many here spear hunt or know someone who does in Alberta?
I just want to hear the opinions of those who this affects directly (I know it affects us all in some fashion)
BTW, I don't feel it should be made illegal....
Putting up silos and segmenting hunters is a horrible way to manage things...I'll be honest, in certain areas I buy a general mule deer tag in case I see a decent one while elk hunting....I buy it because I would hate to see a cranker and not have a tag in my pocket.
I am out mostly hunting elk but if the opportunity presents itself I would love to get a nice mulie in velvet. That is on the years I did not pull a mulie draw tag....and then again those years I do pull a draw I like to try with the bow and then switch to the rifle later in the season.
I am a hunter....I hunt 50/50 timewise between bow/rifle. I hate to have to flip a coin to decide what to use and what draw to put in for. How are they going to divy up the tags in a split draw?
What percentage of archery only tags are available vs. rifle tags in a split draw? If 15% of the hunters are going for 15% of the tags and 85% of the other hunters are going for the other 85% of the other tags how does that help anyone?
This could backfire on the people who pushed it....what if 50% of the hunters go after the 15% of archery tags? I think it should stay as is....get a draw and hunt with one weapon or another or both if you like at different times!
I think the people who supported the draw were likely archery diehards, the guys who don't use a rifle to hunt at all....that wanted to eliminate competition for tags, I can't see any other motivation for it....
LC
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I guess im now once again an evil person because I do actually hunt with a spear, and a bow. I have not hunted with a spear for more then a couple of seasons, i got the interest about three years ago, and spent a good year learning how to productively use it. while my success has been limited due to range i find that the time from contact till death and distance traveled has actually shorter due to the depth of impact and bleed out.
im an accidental traditional hunter, that's not my mandate to be in that category or any other, i just find it more of a personal challenge and more instinctive.
i have looked into the aba as of late just to look at keeping my rights protected, and this group appears to have an adgenda all of their own.
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01-07-2014, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBF
Without hanging me from the gallows, what in the proposition are people so offended about. ? People seem to be all over the map its confusing.
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the offence is that your group wants to ban something that even your own members don't believe is used, is too hard to learn, you have not a shred of fact stated anywhere that this hunting method is causing any harm or abuse, all to "protect our image"
for such a dedicated interest group your short sited views are amazing. any argument for banning a spear can be made for bow hunting without any stretch at all. do you thing groups like peta are now going to support your interests more because spears are banned??
i believe that any changes lobbied by any group should have to have support documents of fact given before any vote is held, the fact that this is even on any table for a vote shows that our hunting future is based on random opinions and not fact, there are way more people out there that hunt using these methods that don't go on forums and don't become members of lobby groups, but i guess they don't pay to have an opinion
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