Crossbow range day

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Goose smasher

I had some free time today so I went out shooting with my crossbow to see how close I could get to the original posters results. I was also shooting off a proper bench rest with my Excalibur exomax which shoots a 418 gr. bolt at a chronied 333 fps one foot in front of the stirrup. I have been shooting a crossbow for several years now and I shoot regularly. I personally won't take a shot past forty yards but on the range why not.

The very best group I could shoot at fifty yards was about four inches and I thought that was pretty good.The OP was doing some amazing shooting because his 100 yard groups were better then my fifty yard groups and I practice a lot. My hat is off to him for being able to shoot so well because that kind of shot is way out of my league for sure. I won't say that kind of shooting is impossible but it is for me and I shoot more often the the average archer does for sure. I do not believe that any first time shooter could shoot three inch groups at 100 yards with a crossbow,I just don't see it.

How practical is taking the scope caps off and dialling the scope up 46 clicks in the field for a hunting shot? Its not practical at all. How many clicks up for say 91 yards or 67 yards? If a compound shooter is skilled enough to make those kind of long shots they will have their sights already set to that or very close to it.

This Xgun stuff is down right offensive.As is calling crossbow hunters unethical,poachers with no hunting skill. We are all hunters and we should be sticking together not fighting over stupid things or trying to stick to personal elitest belief's .More hunters is a good thing for hunting not less.

I think the extreme elitests are far worse for hunting then crossbows ever could be.

Goose smasher

" More hunters is a good thing for hunting (not less)."

I agree, as a General rule.



Now let's relate it to the thread....

How does allowing Crossbows into the Archery season turn into "More hunters"?

Are you suggesting that crossbows in the archery season will increase recuitment to the hunting community at large?

Are there people not hunting because crossbows are not allowed in the Archery season?


More people wanting to hunt in the Archery does not always translate into more opportunity. The recent Antlered Mule Deer draw changes are an example where under present hunter management policy increased numbers of participants will REDUCE opportunity for hunters.


Is it easier to shoot yourself in the foot with a bow or a crossbow?

[m3mhunter]

Hope I don’t come across as an elitist too…

I have a trad bow (can’t seem to find the time to master it), I have a compound bow (love it), and I have owned (no longer) an xbow as I wanted to personally test the situation about two and a and a half years ago – is the xbow easier?
My conclusions – Xbow is hands down easier:
- To learn
- To use (minus draw back into the lock – but withany draw tool back to being on par)
- And to hunt with

I spot and stalk for muleys. The year I was skunked during bow season (Sask draw as I live in SK now, used to be in Medicine hat then Sylvan Lake) I had the choice – keep hunting with bow, start carrying a xbow, or start carrying a muzzleloader. I chose to keep going with the compound but got burnt in several situations where I could have easily been successful with the xbow (based on my experience with my xbow). No draw movement combined with the ability to go prone and shoot off the world’s first shooter’s bench (the ground) would have cinched to deal. I know people will always try and say that I cannot be sure but sorry - F that, I was there already having crouched, crawled and crept to great spots but where raising to knees and drawing was the final step. In two cases the animals were within sight but I either had to draw or come to my knees and draw… both situations ended the stalk. With an xbow in the range I had reached – game over.

So here is my take on the debate…
I love the argument that a crossbow is no different than a compound bow is now different than a traditional bow by way of saying …
A bow is a bow is a bow.
It shows how well the person mastered the English language… they can find ‘bow’ in there everywhere!
(see the seahorse vs horse comment for corrective measure)

Also, pages of this debate can be deleted by getting rid of xbows or compounds being compared to rifles. While the numbers can be made to look compelling, it’s not just apples to oranges, it’s apples to Walmart.

In the end I even discount the immediately compelling/humorous argument of:
“If a rifle = a woman
A bow = a man
What would you call something with parts and mannerisms of both?”
While it is funny and does demonstrate differences, it too should not be used to disqualify the xgun (oops ) - xbow from archery season. Instead as stated by both sides of the argument, it needs to be judged as a hunting tool…

So of all of these are hunting tools/weapons which rely on arm power for their ability to be thrown and/or drawn and/or released…… knife, spear, trad bows, compounds, xbows. However, what you will find is a defining line that the majority of the archery community has used for the greater part of a hundred years (if not longer) to classify their tools… the knife and spear are obviously out (unless someone cares to argue this as well), but not the traditional bows or the compound. The difference has always been, that the crossbow is not considered a bow as it has 100% let-off. This is to say that a bow is bent AND HELD by muscle power alone. Crossbows cannot be classified similarly because despite all of the similarities they have that one, inescapable, inherent mechanical advantage.

Interesting that a spear-gun which bears many similarities with the xbow (drawn by arm, locked in place, fired by trigger) has ‘gun’ in its name…

Now someone, will of course, be clever enough to develop or find things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kXhkD-JK-8
Google: Compound bow Draw loc

But these devices also move compounds out of their spot amongst archery equipment and move it to a ‘cross over’ equipment status… As in it now crosses over the aforementioned defining line. And due to that it is already outlawed nearly everywhere that classifies crossbows separately.

In the end the xbow IS a hunting tool. It is not grouped with ‘archery equipment’ by most – and rightfully so. Notice I said ‘archery equipment’ not archery season; just because a lot of jurisdictions have allowed it in that season does not necessarily mean it becomes archery tackle, despite wording.

And furthermore while some here want to believe that this will change “sooner than later”, this is actually doubtful. The higher percentage of people have always maintained that the xbow is not to be included in the definition of archery equipment and the increase in people who want it to be included has nothing to do with a change in facts but does have everything to do with 1) an increase in marketing and 2) better marketing along with 3) the continually stable human greed – not greed by the archery community but by those wanting the perceived benefits of the archery season.

As far as those in the archery season with archery tackle trying to horde animals to bowhunters – nope. My concern is herd management. And more often than not you will always find the squeaky wheel that wants to use their xbow in archery season has no real answers to increased activity in the early season. They will throw up all kinds of numbers and reassurances that all will be well, but when you peel it back more and more you will find the result to be decreased season length and/or increased draws which either limit the success rate by limiting time or by limiting the hunter inclusion rate respectively.

But they will be happy because even though this PO’s 10,000 other hunters they had made 2,000 crossbow hunters happy…?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by m3mhunter

Hope I don’t come across as an elitist too…

I have a trad bow (can’t seem to find the time to master it), I have a compound bow (love it), and I have owned (no longer) an xbow as I wanted to personally test the situation about two and a and a half years ago – is the xbow easier?
My conclusions – Xbow is hands down easier:
- To learn
- To use (minus draw back into the lock – but withany draw tool back to being on par)
- And to hunt with

I spot and stalk for muleys. The year I was skunked during bow season (Sask draw as I live in SK now, used to be in Medicine hat then Sylvan Lake) I had the choice – keep hunting with bow, start carrying a xbow, or start carrying a muzzleloader. I chose to keep going with the compound but got burnt in several situations where I could have easily been successful with the xbow (based on my experience with my xbow). No draw movement combined with the ability to go prone and shoot off the world’s first shooter’s bench (the ground) would have cinched to deal. I know people will always try and say that I cannot be sure but sorry - F that, I was there already having crouched, crawled and crept to great spots but where raising to knees and drawing was the final step. In two cases the animals were within sight but I either had to draw or come to my knees and draw… both situations ended the stalk. With an xbow in the range I had reached – game over.

So here is my take on the debate…
I love the argument that a crossbow is no different than a compound bow is now different than a traditional bow by way of saying …
A bow is a bow is a bow.
It shows how well the person mastered the English language… they can find ‘bow’ in there everywhere!
(see the seahorse vs horse comment for corrective measure)

Also, pages of this debate can be deleted by getting rid of xbows or compounds being compared to rifles. While the numbers can be made to look compelling, it’s not just apples to oranges, it’s apples to Walmart.

In the end I even discount the immediately compelling/humorous argument of:
“If a rifle = a woman
A bow = a man
What would you call something with parts and mannerisms of both?”
While it is funny and does demonstrate differences, it too should not be used to disqualify the xgun (oops ) - xbow from archery season. Instead as stated by both sides of the argument, it needs to be judged as a hunting tool…

So of all of these are hunting tools/weapons which rely on arm power for their ability to be thrown and/or drawn and/or released…… knife, spear, trad bows, compounds, xbows. However, what you will find is a defining line that the majority of the archery community has used for the greater part of a hundred years (if not longer) to classify their tools… the knife and spear are obviously out (unless someone cares to argue this as well), but not the traditional bows or the compound. The difference has always been, that the crossbow is not considered a bow as it has 100% let-off. This is to say that a bow is bent AND HELD by muscle power alone. Crossbows cannot be classified similarly because despite all of the similarities they have that one, inescapable, inherent mechanical advantage.

Interesting that a spear-gun which bears many similarities with the xbow (drawn by arm, locked in place, fired by trigger) has ‘gun’ in its name…

Now someone, will of course, be clever enough to develop or find things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kXhkD-JK-8
Google: Compound bow Draw loc

But these devices also move compounds out of their spot amongst archery equipment and move it to a ‘cross over’ equipment status… As in it now crosses over the aforementioned defining line. And due to that it is already outlawed nearly everywhere that classifies crossbows separately.

In the end the xbow IS a hunting tool. It is not grouped with ‘archery equipment’ by most – and rightfully so. Notice I said ‘archery equipment’ not archery season; just because a lot of jurisdictions have allowed it in that season does not necessarily mean it becomes archery tackle, despite wording.

And furthermore while some here want to believe that this will change “sooner than later”, this is actually doubtful. The higher percentage of people have always maintained that the xbow is not to be included in the definition of archery equipment and the increase in people who want it to be included has nothing to do with a change in facts but does have everything to do with 1) an increase in marketing and 2) better marketing along with 3) the continually stable human greed – not greed by the archery community but by those wanting the perceived benefits of the archery season.

As far as those in the archery season with archery tackle trying to horde animals to bowhunters – nope. My concern is herd management. And more often than not you will always find the squeaky wheel that wants to use their xbow in archery season has no real answers to increased activity in the early season. They will throw up all kinds of numbers and reassurances that all will be well, but when you peel it back more and more you will find the result to be decreased season length and/or increased draws which either limit the success rate by limiting time or by limiting the hunter inclusion rate respectively.

But they will be happy because even though this PO’s 10,000 other hunters they had made 2,000 crossbow hunters happy…?

Great post...

I'll say it again, I have no problems with xguns, I just don't believe they belong in the archery season. And for sure not in the bow zones!

And again, I do believe that xguns and muzzle loaders , should have a season of their own.

[ULTRAlite]

Originally Posted by clb

no need to dial the scope, just use a hha optimizer speed dial. Crossbows are in their infancy as far as research and development go, compound bows seem to be topping out on what they can do. Crossbows will continue to advance so that they are well above any other type of bow in efficiency and accuracy. They have no place in a regular archery season with hand drawn and held bows. Are they a useful tool for hunting? Sure. Do i have any problem with people hunting with one? No, but they should remain in the seasons they are in now or have their own season like we have in saskatchewan which is a month long season alongside muzzleloaders. I would even consider trying one for hunting but i would have no problem using it in the season it is already legal for.

Originally Posted by m3mhunter

so of all of these are hunting tools/weapons which rely on arm power for their ability to be thrown and/or drawn and/or released…… knife, spear, trad bows, compounds, xbows. However, what you will find is a defining line that the majority of the archery community has used for the greater part of a hundred years (if not longer) to classify their tools… the knife and spear are obviously out (unless someone cares to argue this as well), but not the traditional bows or the compound. The difference has always been, that the crossbow is not considered a bow as it has 100% let-off. This is to say that a bow is bent and held by muscle power alone. Crossbows cannot be classified similarly because despite all of the similarities they have that one, inescapable, inherent mechanical advantage.

My feelings exactly - well put... Thanks

[Nocked]

Not sure if I am doing this right. First post here ever. This discussion fascinates me. I have a question for anyone or everyone for that matter. Does anyone here know a hunter that has a crossbow licence? Not the friend of a friend or a cousin of a friends sister's mother in law, but actually know someone personally? What did they have to go through to get it and why? and I guess while we are at it what would your reaction be to meeting up with someone in the woods with crossbow in hand?

[Stinky Coyote]

Bowhunting is great, one of the best and most rewarding ways to hunt, having a bow included that can fit all size/strength etc. is a good thing, bit more options bit more opportunity, nothing more. The positive far outweighs the negative.

Don't penalize the tool and the hunters of Alberta just because the managers already having a tough enough time getting it right. The tool fits, period.

Yes, I was told the other day, barrier to entry, making it more difficult to participate etc. Certainly helps club exclusivity. And sure seems that a lot want to keep it that way. Right thing? No...right answer for Alberta right now? Maybe. But I bet it stays out because not enough resources to assimilate it properly, the managers have nuff problems and this just one more headache they don't need right now...they already having enough issue with putting so much on draw already by the compound users. Or should i say poor management that penalizes hunters first etc. Is it right? No. I hope it comes some day....along with better management at same time.

U want to increase club exclusivity and opportunity then kick the compounds out....Shouldnt need those draws then...fire the compound into the general with it's like cousin and away we go...the good ole days can return!

Wherever the compound lives the crossbow should live with it.

[Mistagin]

Originally Posted by Nocked

Not sure if I am doing this right. First post here ever. This discussion fascinates me. I have a question for anyone or everyone for that matter. Does anyone here know a hunter that has a crossbow licence? Not the friend of a friend or a cousin of a friends sister's mother in law, but actually know someone personally? What did they have to go through to get it and why? and I guess while we are at it what would your reaction be to meeting up with someone in the woods with crossbow in hand?

Welcome Nocked.

I can't answer the first of your questions, I'm not handicapped enough to get a crossBOW permit, but I can't use my recurve anymore either due to a nagging elbow condition.

I can tell you the reaction I got when I first used my crossBOW in Alberta. It was extremely negative, which was shocking to me as I came out of Ontario where they are accepted side by side with other forms of BOWS. Being an ethical, play by the rules, guy, I was greatly upset at being called a lazy poacher and who was threatened with a beating and breaking my crossBOW to bits (musta been some of Potty's friends). I haven't taken the crossBOW out hunting since, especially since I generally hunt alone and don't want to become a statistic.

Fortunately up here I can use my firearms for three months anyway .

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Mistagin

Welcome Nocked.

I can't answer the first of your questions, I'm not handicapped enough to get a crossBOW permit, but I can't use my recurve anymore either due to a nagging elbow condition.

I can tell you the reaction I got when I first used my crossBOW in Alberta. It was extremely negative, which was shocking to me as I came out of Ontario where they are accepted side by side with other forms of BOWS. Being an ethical, play by the rules, guy, I was greatly upset at being called a lazy poacher and who was threatened with a beating and breaking my crossBOW to bits (musta been some of Potty's friends). I haven't taken the crossBOW out hunting since, especially since I generally hunt alone and don't want to become a statistic.

Fortunately up here I can use my firearms for three months anyway .

Nope! My friends don't make threats, or give warnings. ..lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Nocked

Not sure if I am doing this right. First post here ever. This discussion fascinates me. I have a question for anyone or everyone for that matter. Does anyone here know a hunter that has a crossbow licence? Not the friend of a friend or a cousin of a friends sister's mother in law, but actually know someone personally? What did they have to go through to get it and why? and I guess while we are at it what would your reaction be to meeting up with someone in the woods with crossbow in hand?

Yes....a friend of mine is in a wheelchair and has limited use of his hands, he has a permit to use a x-bow during archery season.

His brother takes him and gets him all set up in a ground blind.

LC

[Nocked]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Yes....a friend of mine is in a wheelchair and has limited use of his hands, he has a permit to use a x-bow during archery season.

His brother takes him and gets him all set up in a ground blind.

LC

Nice lefty. Now that's a good story.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Nocked

Not sure if I am doing this right. First post here ever. This discussion fascinates me. I have a question for anyone or everyone for that matter. Does anyone here know a hunter that has a crossbow licence? Not the friend of a friend or a cousin of a friends sister's mother in law, but actually know someone personally? What did they have to go through to get it and why? and I guess while we are at it what would your reaction be to meeting up with someone in the woods with crossbow in hand?

I have 4 friends that use them. One also has a permit to shoot from a vehicle ( yes they exist) he's missing an arm an his legs. The other is missing a arm, both are friends and clients.

The other 2 are my father in laws buddies, they have absolutely nothing wrong with themselves, healthy as a guy could be.They have a doctor friend, that wrote the note they needed,and a F&W acquaintance , that granted them the permit, 6 years ago. When it was way tougher to obtain a permit.

My reaction if I met someone in the woods with one... In the general zone, I would stop say hi, ask how his day was, wish him luck and carry on.

In the archery season or bowzone....Ask if he has a permit, and if not, call F&W .

[Nocked]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I have 4 friends that use them. One also has a permit to shoot from a vehicle ( yes they exist) he's missing an arm an his legs. The other is missing a arm, both are friends and clients.

The other 2 are my father in laws buddies, they have absolutely nothing wrong with themselves, healthy as a guy could be.They have a doctor friend, that wrote the note they needed,and a F&W acquaintance , that granted them the permit, 6 years ago. When it was way tougher to obtain a permit.

My reaction if I met someone in the woods with one... In the general zone, I would stop say hi, ask how his day was, wish him luck and carry on.

In the archery season or bowzone....Ask if he has a permit, and if not, call F&W .

potty that's good to hear. I am always afraid reading these things that sometimes people are speaking out of turn without really knowing all the facts. I am glad you have friends and clients that must use them to hunt. You know another one know. My story is a little different than the people you know but worth telling here I think. First of all let me say my compound has a place of honour in my home office, and always will. My disability is on the inside. You can't see it. Last fall I was split from neck to crotch to remove something terrible growing off of one of my internal organs. I lost a couple of non essential internal parts, a good portion of some others and unfortunately had a lot of muscle removed from my chest, shoulder, and back. Took more than a few boxes of staples to put me back together again. That being said, I was lucky, I'm still here. I have heard lots of stories on here about lazy hunters, and doctors giving notes to friends, and not so great F&W officers. I just wanted to say it's not always the case. My form was filled out by a world class surgeon, submitted, and I waited. I phoned a couple of times to check on the progress but was told to wait and they would call. After a month and a bit I called again and was told that I had been approved but had to wait for more paperwork to be complete before I could pick it up. When that call finally came I attended my local office and as it was retrieved from the file I noticed a lot of paperwork had been involved to investigate my claim. Anyway, there is a question on the form that asked the doctor if there was any chance my condition would improve in the next three years. He said no. He also stated in the written portion that I would never have the strength to pull and maintain a draw on my bow again. My approval is for what I was told was the maximum. One year. With a three year total pre approval if my condition does not improve. I have to go back each time for the next two years and present myself to get the new one. After that its back to the surgeons if I want to continue. Fair? I think so. Do I love the fact that it might be easier for me? No. Not really on topic but I thought I would share. I guess I will see how I get treated. I hope it is with the respect that any bow hunter that earns it deserves. I will let you know in the fall.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Nocked

Not sure if I am doing this right. First post here ever. This discussion fascinates me. I have a question for anyone or everyone for that matter. Does anyone here know a hunter that has a crossbow licence? Not the friend of a friend or a cousin of a friends sister's mother in law, but actually know someone personally? What did they have to go through to get it and why? and I guess while we are at it what would your reaction be to meeting up with someone in the woods with crossbow in hand?

Welcome to the forum. I have a non-corrective shoulder injury that I was approved for a crossbow permit about 15 years ago. I had to go through pretty much the same loops as you did and under the new system I have to get a note from the Doctor every 3 years to take to SRD (they can make you do it every year if they want to). I don't worry about what anyone thinks about me using it and they are welcomed to phone RAP on me if they wish. I've never had a problem with anyone but I've only ever seen one fella while I've been hunting with it. Stay calm and hunt on!

[Fishnafterwork]

Nocked explained the process perfectly .... Thanks for that!!... For all of those who are making it out to be a simple lie from a friend doctor.... Not the case!...

Potty.... Unless u are F&W .... Why on earth would anyone have to justify their legitamicy in the field to u? Not to be rude but are you a self appointed officer?
Well 1 thing is for sure you guys are succeeding in scaring newbies away from crossbows... If you were half as passionate about actually doing some good and stopping the law breakers u know of rather than spreading your negative philosophy maybe u actually would achieve something...?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Fishnafterwork

... For all of those who are making it out to be a simple lie from a friend doctor.... Not the case!...

Stick around and you'll hear lots of other myths.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Fishnafterwork

Nocked explained the process perfectly .... Thanks for that!!... For all of those who are making it out to be a simple lie from a friend doctor.... Not the case!...

Potty.... Unless u are F&W .... Why on earth would anyone have to justify their legitamicy in the field to u? Not to be rude but are you a self appointed officer?
Well 1 thing is for sure you guys are succeeding in scaring newbies away from crossbows... If you were half as passionate about actually doing some good and stopping the law breakers u know of rather than spreading your negative philosophy maybe u actually would achieve something...?

No but where I hunt permit is required. I also have a thing about turning rule breakers and poachers... I rather enjoy it. Pays well....

[Goose smasher]

I think that if crossbows were legal in all seasons you would see more hunters get into the sport. Yes this could mean limited draws for tags but more hunters would go afield in my opinion. The last two replies were the type of replies most people like to see on message boards. Good answers with opinions expressed but not negative and nasty. I live in Ontario until I move to Alberta and crossbows are fully legal here and have been for many many years.I really don't see any negative affects of using them during and regular archery season. I would never say a compound is easier to master but I wouldn't say the crossbow takes no skill to use either. In Ontario we can choose between traditional bows,compounds or crossbows and its really not a big deal here.I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight with anyone,I'm just saying what my experience has been. I respect any hunters choice to use whichever legal weapon they choose to hunt with. If it's legal then its fine with me even if its not the way I would choose to do it.

Goose smasher

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Goose smasher

I think that if crossbows were legal in all seasons you would see more hunters get into the sport. Yes this could mean limited draws for tags but more hunters would go afield in my opinion. The last two replies were the type of replies most people like to see on message boards. Good answers with opinions expressed but not negative and nasty. I live in Ontario until I move to Alberta and crossbows are fully legal here and have been for many many years.I really don't see any negative affects of using them during and regular archery season. I would never say a compound is easier to master but I wouldn't say the crossbow takes no skill to use either. In Ontario we can choose between traditional bows,compounds or crossbows and its really not a big deal here.I'm certainly not trying to pick a fight with anyone,I'm just saying what my experience has been. I respect any hunters choice to use whichever legal weapon they choose to hunt with. If it's legal then its fine with me even if its not the way I would choose to do it.

Goose smasher

As far as your other post....I don't have to justify myself to you.... But ill touch on it...The numerous new hunters I've brought into archery, the countless first deer I've seen. The opportunity to hunt beside me in some of the most sought after permission around.... I can guarantee I've done more than most.

Computer hunter...lol.... Look me up! Don't get to upset at the small sample you may find on the net...

This one topic, that I'm passionate about, and willing to fight for on all levels. Xguns don't belong in the alberta archery seasons and bow zones.



Now...

Explain how you believe xguns will increase hunter recruitment?

And don't confuse it with a number swing in weapon categories..... (Check some of my previous posts)

111,000 licensed hunters in alberta, 16,000 licensed bow hunters...

Explain?

[Goose smasher]

Crossbows will give new hunters another option on which weapons to choose to hunt with. Many will give them up in favour of a compound due to the compounds many advantages over a crossbow.By your numbers less then 15% of Alberta's hunters are archery hunters. I think allowing crossbows in all seasons would raise that number even if it meant a lottery tag draw system. If more then 85% don't archery hunt maybe they should close the early archery season and open the firearms seasons then? I hope that never happens but if you want to keep the majority happy this would do it. I have no agenda as far as crossbows go Potty but you are the one constantly putting them down and insulting their users. Including crossbow in the archery seasons would increase the percentage of archery hunters in Alberta and it would have no effect on game populations.

Goose smasher

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Goose smasher

Crossbows will give new hunters another option on which weapons to choose to hunt with. Many will give them up in favour of a compound due to the compounds many advantages over a crossbow.By your numbers less then 15% of Alberta's hunters are archery hunters. I think allowing crossbows in all seasons would raise that number even if it meant a lottery tag draw system. If more then 85% don't archery hunt maybe they should close the early archery season and open the firearms seasons then? I hope that never happens but if you want to keep the majority happy this would do it. I have no agenda as far as crossbows go Potty but you are the one constantly putting them down and insulting their users. Including crossbow in the archery seasons would increase the percentage of archery hunters in Alberta and it would have no effect on game populations.

Goose smasher

So you believe people who never hunted, would get their hunters course done, and start hunting with a xgun, before a bow or even more a rifle or shotgun?

Even though, xguns ARE permitted to be used during the general season already, without a permit or handicap.

Again, I don't know why it bothers all you guys that I / MY opinion is that they don't belong in the archery season.....

As far as no effect on the populations, there's no evidence of that, and no other jurisdiction in North America makes a good case study. Because nowhere in N.A is the diversity in game, seasons, terrain and draws like Alberta.

Recruitment levels of archery hunters isn't a problem in alberta, we don't need to increase them . They are already increasing to levels, that Esrd has deemed essential to put on draw for certain species...