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209x50 · #31 11-13-2012, 06:48 AM

To those who say:

Quote:

So many people complain that poachers are everywhere and they need to be stopped.

and somhow believe this justifies the violations I like to repeat a very good quote:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Blake · #32 11-13-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottymouth

No they can't without a warrant.

Saying that though, if your buddy inavertantly allowed them to gain access, then they can.

The other way they can search, if they have probable cause........

Never mind. Didn't see walking buffalo's post before i responded

. Carry on.....

crownb · #33 11-13-2012, 09:47 AM

Several years ago my old man and I were hunting in a zone that bordered the farm land.We hunted 5 days that one week. Four of the five days we were stopped by the same fish and wildlife officer in roughly the same area.We were always in the same truck and were always stopped when we were moving from field to field that we had permission on. Every time he asked the same questions, are you hunting today? are your guns loaded? what liscenses do you have? After being stopped on the third day my dad had enough, we felt like we were being harrased, stopped three times and never for any reason. Well the fourth time we got stopped for nothing again my old man rolled the window down about one inch. The officer asked are you hunting ? My dad responded nope. The officer said you have hunter orange on and are carrying firearms, my dad replied show me anywhere in the criminal code where i cant wear hunter orange and where I cant carry a firearm in Alberta? Then my old man said second of all we are not hunting, because it is against the law to hunt from your vehicle on a county road.Lets just say the officer was a little stunned, his next question was why are you acting like this sir, he said you are dodging my questions and you wont even roll your window down? my old man replied i answered all your questions, the reason I am acting like this is because I am treating you with as much respect as you have treated us with the last three times you stopped us, you may follow us and the minute we step foot of this county road and enter a field we have permission in then you may stop us and ask all the appropriate questions. Then he simply drove away with the warden standing there, he never pursued us or stopped us again that year. My old man said sometimes you have to remind him what his job really is, but dont let one bad apple wreck your hunting experience, I have been stopped a few times since and have never had a problem. There is bad apples in every walk of life.

Rocky7 · #34 11-13-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

I have nothing to hide but that doesn't mean I have to live in a glass house and dress in saran wrap.

Fixed it for you.

Tipperary · #35 11-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Again with the F&W complaining... It appears this topic gets covered once a week, with the usual mixture of people supporting F&W, people complaining that they are abusing their powers, and so on.

At the end of the day.. Chances are you do not understand what their authorities are when it comes to searching a vehicle. Often times, they do not need a "warrant" to search your vehicle. Contrary to popular belief, there are few times where a warrant is actually needed for a vehicle. They will either have cause to search it without a warrant, or not enough cause to search it.

If they have cause (reasonable and probable grounds), then they will probably ask out of politeness, or tell you they are searching it. Either way, you can't refuse.

If they don't have reasonable and probable grounds to search your vehicle, they may still ask to search it. This is where your "consent" comes into play. You can refuse this type of search.

How do you know the difference? Ask them. If you are asked to let them search your vehicle, ask them "do I have to?" 99% will tell you the truth and say either "yes" or "no". Depending on their response, you can base your answer off that.

Keep in mind, when firearms are involved, chances are extremely good that they will be able to search your vehicle without your consent and without the "holy warrant" that so many seem to believe is required.

The vast majority are just trying to do their jobs and are honest people. You would be surprised with how much respect you receive when you show anyone in Law Enforcement that little bit of respect back.

igorot · #36 11-13-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DairyMan7

something else I observed reading through everyones responses. I hope everyone knows that F&W dont just enforce one wildlife act, they have many acts and regulation that they have and can enforce, for example ur fella that believes he was stopped for no reason well i bag to differ Alberta fish and wildlife officers have the authority to enforce the traffic safety act. therefore a legit stop any vehicle travelling on a road can be stopped to check for licence/registration/insurance/vehicle maintenance and sobriety of the driverSo the F&W can write a ticket for drunk driving and the RCMP can charge me hunting regs violation and the Traffic constable can respond to a bank robbery in progress?. u dont have to have committed an offence to be stopped. also law enforcement evolves he may have though u were drunk because u were driving too slow swerving a bit( because u just saw buck and are now focus on the size of his horns) i personally have been pulled over three different times because of this. didnt realize the cop behind me! but as he walked up to ur window he seen a firearm and hunting gear, well now he can inspect ur vehicle he cant search it for offences but can now insure ur gun is unloaded and ur ammo is properly stored Is this the SOP for the RCMP. now on the next issue opinions may vary but the second cop showing up being rude that could have been handled differently i agree. but remember the po doesnt know you and i hate to say this but just beecause ur innocent daughter is in the back automatically mean ur innocent( ive seen children used more than once for narcotic transport.)how many cases in Alberta not Mexico ? i agree that ur daughter is innocent though.

Question in red. I am just curious

Donkey Oatey · #37 11-13-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorot

So the F&W can write a ticket for drunk driving and the RCMP can charge me hunting regs violation and the Traffic constable can respond to a bank robbery in progress?

There is no ticket for drunk driving but yes they can arrest for it. They can also give you a speeding ticket.

Yes the RCMP are ex-officio Wildlife Officers under the Wildlife Act and can charge you for poaching. Traffic Constable(RCMP or City Police) yes can attend a bank robbery, Traffic Sheriff can not.

rocpilefsj · #38 11-13-2012, 11:12 AM

I think F&W Officers have one of the most dangerous jobs around and "most" I have dealt with are decent people just doing their jobs. Anytime you have people in positions of authority you are going to have problems with a certain percentage of them. I am a huge believer in standing up for my rights, but on the same token I have nothing to hide by letting them take a quick look. I have had a few issues in the past with over zealous officers, you make a formal complaint and get a nice letter back thanking you for letting them know. The same letter everytime actually lol.

igorot · #39 11-13-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

There is no ticket for drunk driving but yes they can arrest for it. They can also give you a speeding ticket.

Yes the RCMP are ex-officio Wildlife Officers under the Wildlife Act and can charge you for poaching. Traffic Constable(RCMP or City Police) yes can attend a bank robbery, Traffic Sheriff can not.

Learn something new everyday. When you say arrest you mean legal arrest not detain. Never been inside a F&W mobile unit but how would they determine if you are speeding, do they have speed radars on their units?

Jamie · #40 11-13-2012, 11:25 AM

Respect is Automaticly given when I am pulled over.

It is also pulled back if I dont have it returned.

If I personaly ran into a well intentioned officer and he was respectful in asking to search. Sure.. Go ahead.

I run into one of the bad ones after I give respect, I will not let them rumage through the vehicle and everything we do will be right by the book.

Jamie

Tipperary · #41 11-13-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorot

Question in red. I am just curious

"So the F&W can write a ticket for drunk driving and the RCMP can charge me hunting regs violation and the Traffic constable can respond to a bank robbery in progress"

It depends on the agency. I doubt a municipal police force would be enforcing the Wildlife Act. RCMP may be a different story since they are federal. Certain agencies have certain authorities and a certain amount of the Criminal Code to enforce. IE, Peace Officers likely will not be investigating Criminal Code Offences, however, they may back up RCMP dealing with those matters.

I know I didn't really answer your question, but it's complicated as you can see.

"well now he can inspect ur vehicle he cant search it for offences but can now insure ur gun is unloaded and ur ammo is properly stored Is this the SOP for the RCMP."

It is the SOP for any police agency to inspect (search) a vehicle if there is a firearm in it. Depending on the circumstances and the agency, you might get a different response. For example, an EPS member pulling over a vehicle with drug dealers in it and spotting a pistol under the seat, versus seeing two hunters with rifle cases in the back on their way out of the city. I'm guessing the latter case would not result in much of a response if any. It also depends on what the major problems that the agencies are facing and what their concerns are.

"( ive seen children used more than once for narcotic transport.)how many cases in Alberta not Mexico ? "

Trust me on this one. People would not believe half the **** that goes on in our country. The media reports only a small portion of what is actually occurring. I think if people had any idea about the horrific stuff that our Law Enforcement Officers actually dealt with, there would be a lot more respect given to them.

igorot · #42 11-13-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipperary

"So the F&W can write a ticket for drunk driving and the RCMP can charge me hunting regs violation and the Traffic constable can respond to a bank robbery in progress"

It depends on the agency. I doubt a municipal police force would be enforcing the Wildlife Act. RCMP may be a different story since they are federal. Certain agencies have certain authorities and a certain amount of the Criminal Code to enforce. IE, Peace Officers likely will not be investigating Criminal Code Offences, however, they may back up RCMP dealing with those matters.

I know I didn't really answer your question, but it's complicated as you can see.

"well now he can inspect ur vehicle he cant search it for offences but can now insure ur gun is unloaded and ur ammo is properly stored Is this the SOP for the RCMP."

It is the SOP for any police agency to inspect (search) a vehicle if there is a firearm in it. Depending on the circumstances and the agency, you might get a different response. For example, an EPS member pulling over a vehicle with drug dealers in it and spotting a pistol under the seat, versus seeing two hunters with rifle cases in the back on their way out of the city. I'm guessing the latter case would not result in much of a response if any. It also depends on what the major problems that the agencies are facing and what their concerns are.

"( ive seen children used more than once for narcotic transport.)how many cases in Alberta not Mexico ? "

Trust me on this one. People would not believe half the **** that goes on in our country. The media reports only a small portion of what is actually occurring. I think if people had any idea about the horrific stuff that our Law Enforcement Officers actually dealt with, there would be a lot more respect given to them.

Thanks

Just wondering how the evidence collected on this random checkstop would standout in court.

A "child drug mule" in Alberta or Canada would be front page for any news paper, but not on a third world country. Even minor stabbing here in Calgary gets the front page. Do agree on the Law Enforcement job but as always respect goes both ways. They must remember that most crime are solve by the help of the public not CSI. sorry fo the hi jack.

Donkey Oatey · #43 11-13-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorot

Learn something new everyday. When you say arrest you mean legal arrest not detain. Never been inside a F&W mobile unit but how would they determine if you are speeding, do they have speed radars on their units?

Pull you over, smell booze, see empties, determine that you are impaired. Arrest you, handcuff you, pat you down, read you your rights, and then they would either call the RCMP to come get you or they can in a pinch transport you to the nearest RCMP office for an official breath test.

As for speeding, that was an example. How about fail to stop at a stop sign, better? As for speeding they can follow you and use their speedo as a marker.

Tipperary · #44 11-13-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorot

Thanks

Just wondering how the evidence collected on this random checkstop would standout in court.

A "child drug mule" in Alberta or Canada would be front page for any news paper, but not on a third world country. Even minor stabbing here in Calgary gets the front page. Do agree on the Law Enforcement job but as always respect goes both ways. They must remember that most crime are solve by the help of the public not CSI. sorry fo the hi jack.

Absolutely, respect must go both ways.

For evidence collection it would depend on numerous things, unfortunately too many factors to put in a reply.

I will fire you a PM regarding the other portion of your post.

jontar · #45 11-13-2012, 12:25 PM

Like the guy says above, you can wear blaze orange 365 days of the year if you want, in fact you can wear hot pink 365 days of the year if you want.

Its called profilling when they do, criminals can get off on crimes if they esstablish that the officer profiled him, stocked him without cause etc. Officer stops me 4 out of 5 days, is profiling, harrassment, and can be used to paint a picture of basically where he followed you around like a puppy, once again its not 1930 nazi germany, we don't need the Guestopo or the SS nor is it 1950 Soviet Union with the NKVD or the GRU.

If you want the public to help you, you have to prove your not a hassle and not harrassing them. Think A-Stan, NATO has done a **** poor job, because the general public feel they are the above.

pickrel pat · #46 11-13-2012, 12:32 PM

kukoo kukoo.......

DairyMan7 · #47 11-14-2012, 01:09 AM

well thanks for the back up tip or tib i dont usually get help from others on LEO issues. but as some folks pointed out basically an RCMP officer can enforce almost every law in Alberta. A F&w officer can also enforce many laws in Alberta.
There are bad people in every profession I agree some LEOs abuse there powers. I am deeply sorry as a police officer because i take my job very seriously and never cross that line. But lets settle a few things, there are literally 100s of regs/acts and law in Alberta and Canada that a po can use to do their jobs, i investigate 1000s of occurrences a year half being calls for service and the other half being self generated stuff and yes the majority of them result in no charges or minor tickets, but the odd time a po gets a weird feeling about a file(by weird feeling i mean suspicion enough to detain someone or further investigate) this makes me apply my knowledge of the law in certain circumstances. this is my job that i keep hearing bad guys pay me for.
dont be embarrassed if i or another po get this with some of u we r just doing our job. if it turns out to be nothinng i will tell the person that and why i did what i did for the most part. some dont im sorry for that.