Update on the Johnny King Buck - Page 4

walking buffalo · #91 07-02-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcl

Just think you can go to hunting shows and tell the story of how you bought the world record deer:
It was cold that morning, i saw this huge rack glistening in the morning sun just as the fog lifted. The dew was thick, as i walked through the tall grass it made the bottom of my pants wet and heavy as dew often will. You could smell the fall air, every hunter knows that smell, a mixture of every aroma in nature seems to hit you all at once. I stared at the rack, i couldn't help it, they always told me when i was a kid, "don't stare at the horns, you'll have lots of time to do that after you close the deal". I pulled out my pen, stroked a cheque and the buck was mine. Now the work would really begin, convincing the world that this was the new world record.

bravo!

Who Da Fisherman · #92 07-02-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

I would think about that, but I can't as then it would look like they finally looked at it because it was theirs. The one that deserves it is Johnny King.
Please be patient for 5 minutes , Johnny started crying 3 times when he was taking the deer off his cabin wall when I went to buy it. He couldn't do it! I said " Johnny you don't need the money I can still advocate for the deer, but I need it in person at itmes". Johnny" NO I SCREWED IT UP ENOUGH, YOUR THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN GET THIS DEER ITS DO"' Johnny shot the deer a couple to many times and the meat couldn't be used as food, as the butcher told him. Mr. King drove the carcuss over 2 hrs north and made a grave site in his cabin yard, hand dug at the end of November, he felt bad that he and his family couldn't eat it. Respect, YES. Bad shooting YES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

$35,000,and if it ever named a WR by B&C I am going to pay Mr. King another $35,000. I have never hid that from anyone

So you advocate for his deer and if you can make them (BC) change their minds ole King gets a little of the doh and you get the rest, pfff!
All this new publicity is not putting you in a good light.

ganderblaster · #93 07-02-2012, 01:59 PM

Milo Hansen was quoted saying he made $60,000/yr showing his deer.

ganderblaster · #94 07-02-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

I would think about that, but I can't as then it would look like they finally looked at it because it was theirs. The one that deserves it is Johnny King.

LOL! Why would it matter what B&C looks like if they are as crooked as you say they are.

jay fish · #95 07-02-2012, 03:28 PM

Why does it make me look bad? Again no one can argue the fact its typical. A few tried and used a rule that B&C didn't say was their ruling. I showed what B&C ruled and the video showed that, that was wrong so now lets attack personally. One question what if it was your deer? I don't know how muck Milo made or didn't make that is his busness not mine.

jay fish · #96 07-02-2012, 03:36 PM

By the way a check wan't involved. There it was the biggest typical rack I have ever layed my eyes on as fought my threw the crowded isle at the deer show. The smell of hot dogs and beer filled the air, along with a littles b.o. Turkey calls sounding off in all directions as the owners tried to sell them. Trying to out run the other antler buyers at the show, my lungs where burning deer down deep where i could drop at anytime. Finally I did I was the first one at the booth and slammed down my back pack full of cash, a new smell filled the room,and it was money! Good ole green backs! The buck was mine, but for how long? How do I get out of this mass of people with deer? Should I go down isle 12 or was 11 my better bet? I chose 11, and the rest is history, only to be past down for generations to come......

antlerguy · #97 07-02-2012, 04:25 PM

What do you mean that nobody can argue that it is typical. I think B+C did. Isn't this what all this is about?

Who Da Fisherman · #98 07-02-2012, 07:35 PM

Jay you speak of leagal action agaist B&C but on facebook you quote using the B&C scoring it to make it a new WR. As B&C sees it, it is not a WR and they should be coming after you. A quick google and as i see it you have brought this buck through the brush and done nothing more than to tarnish what it is (a monster) and are just spinning your wheels. Put it up in whatever cave you may have start scouting and find one that no one can bring into question, sheesh!

ishootbambi · #99 07-02-2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

o Jack Renaue told Johnny King the same thing about "cutting the point off to show the figure 8". Jack also said " you can probably prove me wrong by doing that , but I am sure you don't want to cut your deer up" I say I would cut it in a heart beat and let Tom Sexton repair it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

the "ruling" from B&C. They said it is its own point , and not common base or comes off the G-2. They ruled that it comes off the inside of the Main Beam. .

you have contradicted yourself. why would jack say that about the figure 8 if you are saying that it isnt relevant and the point is off the inside of the beam? everything ive seen published about this deer says the question is whether the point is common base or not.

i said it before and ill say it again now. panel score this effin deer already so you can be shown that you paid too much for a 180 net buck.

question jay....whats the biggest buck you have ever killed yourself?

Lefty-Canuck · #**100** 07-02-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i said it before and ill say it again now. panel score this effin deer already so you can be shown that you paid too much for a 180 net buck.

The longer it isn't scored the more attention a certain someone who bought a trophy gets....I think that is part of the game....the 15 minutes thing applies me thinks....

LC

ishootbambi · #**101** 07-02-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

The longer it isn't scored the more attention a certain someone who bought a trophy gets....I think that is part of the game....the 15 minutes thing applies me thinks....

LC

i agree with that. rompola knew he was beat and went away, but this one cant accept it. its actually beneficial im thinking to not panel score it for a guy trying to make a buck on someone elses deer.

jay fish · #**102** 07-03-2012, 06:54 AM

ishoot, It only took 3 yrs for them to put somthing in writting. It started with some saying out of sequence then it went to comes off the G-2, which was the worst call. Then it went into comes off the inside edge of the beam, and that is the one they finally put in writting. Ishoot are u a B&C scorer? If so do you think using the 13th edition record book book is the place to put new ruling and drawings? I talked with Justin at the main office in Montana, I asked "You have about 1400 B&C scorers in North America, how many do you think buy the record book? He said maybe 300, I responded with so you add a new rule into a record book that maybe 300 people will see. That means you have over 1,000 guys scoring deer wrong. This new drawing could have been printed in fair chase the new scoring manuel, but no only when the heat got a bit to much now its trax covering time. Also 15 minutes of fame yea this sure is fun. I knew taking after B&C was going to be very unpopular and I would get people after me, but I am and will continue. Again you guys never answered the point in question comes off the top center of the main beam, by their rule its typical.

Fisherpeak · #**103** 07-03-2012, 09:28 AM

This whole thing stinks.Guy shot a big buck,wasted the meat and sold the rack for $35,000.You got greedy and now you think it should be worth a million.I think you should smash it with an axe and move on.I need to puke now.

Hunter Trav · #**104** 07-03-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

ishoot, It only took 3 yrs for them to put somthing in writting. It started with some saying out of sequence then it went to comes off the G-2, which was the worst call. Then it went into comes off the inside edge of the beam, and that is the one they finally put in writting. Ishoot are u a B&C scorer? If so do you think using the 13th edition record book book is the place to put new ruling and drawings? I talked with Justin at the main office in Montana, I asked "You have about 1400 B&C scorers in North America, how many do you think buy the record book? He said maybe 300, I responded with so you add a new rule into a record book that maybe 300 people will see. That means you have over 1,000 guys scoring deer wrong. This new drawing could have been printed in fair chase the new scoring manuel, but no only when the heat got a bit to much now its trax covering time. Also 15 minutes of fame yea this sure is fun. I knew taking after B&C was going to be very unpopular and I would get people after me, but I am and will continue. Again you guys never answered the point in question comes off the top center of the main beam, by their rule its typical.

Honestly, you sound like my kids whining about not getting some candy at the store or something to that effect. Its a big deer, end of story. Who gives a rats ass if its the new world record or not, this thing called hunting isn't a popularity contest. As far as I'm concerned you have no real respect for our wildlife, if you did you'd hang it on the wall, and spend quiet moments admiring that animal, not sit on an internet forum whining about how some BS organization won't give the bragging right you think you deserve. Grow up already...

pottymouth · #**105** 07-03-2012, 10:39 AM

Let's stop feeding the troll, and he will go away!

I'm done!

elkhunter11 · #**106** 07-03-2012, 10:39 AM

I would like to see the deer scored, just to put this to rest, but given that I have a feeling that the owner cares more about the financial aspect of owning the world record, than about any other aspect of this, I am kind of hoping that it is never declared the world record.

ganderblaster · #**107** 07-03-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

This whole thing stinks.Guy shot a big buck,wasted the meat and sold the rack for $35,000.You got greedy and now you think it should be worth a million.I think you should smash it with an axe and move on.I need to puke now.

Nicely summed up. Let the love of the sport and respect of the animal come last. Money and fame first!

Bearen09 · #**108** 07-03-2012, 11:33 AM

Closing this post wouldn't hurt either.......

packhuntr · #**109** 07-03-2012, 11:40 AM

I'm of the opinion after reading a bit that the deer should be looked at and given a chance to be placed with deer in its peer group. If its as typical as it looks and sounds its a no brainer. Guys seeking their 5 minutes of fame by hacking anyone involved with this is embarrasing. Motives, no motives, it matters not. The deer is a super slammer and to see it destroyed through ignorance, pride or what ever is unbelievably sad. Count me for the side that says it should be taken to a non discriminating pannel.

MissFlyfishing · #**110** 07-03-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

I would think about that, but I can't as then it would look like they finally looked at it because it was theirs. The one that deserves it is Johnny King.
Please be patient for 5 minutes , Johnny started crying 3 times when he was taking the deer off his cabin wall when I went to buy it. He couldn't do it! I said " Johnny you don't need the money I can still advocate for the deer, but I need it in person at itmes". Johnny" NO I SCREWED IT UP ENOUGH, YOUR THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN GET THIS DEER ITS DO"' Johnny shot the deer a couple to many times and the meat couldn't be used as food, as the butcher told him. Mr. King drove the carcuss over 2 hrs north and made a grave site in his cabin yard, hand dug at the end of November, he felt bad that he and his family couldn't eat it. Respect, YES. Bad shooting YES.

What a crock. You keep saying "All Johnny wanted was for this deer to get its due"......
Then he accepted $35,000 for his pain and suffering.........
Poor Johnny.
Hey, BTW, I have a few 180 class racks at the farm......each one for sale, asking $35000, but only because I want those deer to get their due too!!!!!

sdkidaho · #**111** 07-03-2012, 05:18 PM

Very nice deer. When you get tired of fighting about it, PM me and I'll give you my address so you can send it to me. I'll appreciate it every day and not care what its score is. Ever.

chasingtail · #**112** 07-03-2012, 08:22 PM

Your on the wrong forum Jay fish, all the superstars here would donate their world record to charity, they would be to proud to make any money of it, lol.
I would rather have that deer on my wall then a million dollar painting, $35,000 was a good deal.

ishootbambi · #**113** 07-03-2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasingtail

Your on the wrong forum Jay fish, all the superstars here would donate their world record to charity, they would be to proud to make any money of it, lol.
I would rather have that deer on my wall then a million dollar painting, $35,000 was a good deal.

there is the rub. guys are talking about their OWN deer, not someone elses.

actually one guy said plainly that anything he shot big enough to get any money, recognition, fame or anything else he could would be exploited for whatever he could get.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay fish

Ishoot are u a B&C scorer? If so do you think using the 13th edition record book book is the place to put new ruling and drawings.

no. i score officially for the AFGA which uses the same system. i was trained by jack graham who is about the most respected guy in canada i would think.

no, a record book is not the place for a new ruling. i would like to see this ruling you are referring to. post it please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

question jay....whats the biggest buck you have ever killed yourself?

i have answered your questions. answer mine please.

GrandView · #**114** 07-03-2012, 09:26 PM

B&C published ruling on The King Buck is an inside offset abnormal point.

In the recent video the following was stated. "........when you see it going down right dead center to the top of the rack. Only it's small diameter is creating a problem for it to fill to the outside or the inside." - Laidlaw Video

In a previous article by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel a photo from Mr. Laidlaw was included that shows a straightedge across the inside of the right G2, G3, G4 points. The points are all aligned on the straightedge.

Actual photo...

In the current presentation on Deer & Deer hunting by Mr. Laidlaw, there is a photo of a straightedge across the outside of the right G2 & G3 points. It is at an obvious angle to the inside.

Actual photo....

This is a diagram that represents this offset abnormal point.

B&C released the explanation of this abnormality in May 2011. In this link of the response is a link to the Fair Chase article describing the abnormality, and why these instances should be scored as abnormal points. The Fair Chase article is winter of 2000.........six years before the king Buck was harvested.

King Buck Response

Additionally, B&C released an explanation of why the measured "figure 8" was invalid. (A Passion For Score - June 2011) The "Figure 8" is not being measured at the main beam.....it is angled up into the webbing coming off the G2. A fact previously alluded to by ishootbambi in this thread. The abnormal point doesn't originate at the main beam. It originates in the webbing off the G2.

A Passion For Score

Here is a screen capture of the video "figure 8", and a comparison of B&C's ruling.

B&C's latest release is an explanation to Wisconsin DNR of the ruling, and a brief synopsis of what has transpired after Mr. Fish purchased the rack.

B&C Statement on The King Buck

The rack was measured and accepted by both B&C and WBBC in the spring of 2007. Johnny King requested removal of the score from both organizations in the fall of 2007.

From all that has been published, mostly by Deer and Deer Hunting, only one magazine (North American Whitetail) has correctly stated that Johnny King was told his buck likely would not be a World Record before he went to Pennsylvania to have B&C officials check it. The rack went to that meeting with TWO issues. The break in the main beam.......and the potential abnormal point. Johnny King wasn't blindsided by the ruling as published.

Two scorers were involved with the King Buck before it went to Pennsylvania for B&C review. The scorer of record (B&C and WBBC certified), and the WBBC Director of Records (B&C and WBBC certified). Neither of these men has been interviewed for an article. The Director of Records for WBBC has publicly stated that the scorer of record final scored the rack the same way he initially scored it........~180.

WBBC uses B&C scoring rules. It's in their bylaws. Nothing.......either by rule or procedure........was done incorrectly by either WBBC or B&C. The King Buck is a great trophy. However, it isn't a B&C World Record.

BTW......although similar in the fact that a point was ruled to not originate from the main beam, the Zaft Buck was ruled that the G3 originated off the G2. It wasn't a common base issue.

Lefty-Canuck · #**115** 07-03-2012, 09:32 PM

The fact that they allowed the "King Buck" (should we now call it the "Fi$h Buck"?) to be scored and entered in the book with a broken main beam was enough of a concession by B&C IMHO....now that someone has purchased it and keeps pushing what is clearly a non-issue just makes someone look like a whiney kid who didn't get his way.

Even I can look at the pic to see that point is abnormal and doesn't come directly off the main beam.

LC

Thunder/FX · #**116** 07-03-2012, 09:35 PM

FOR SALE
B&C 194 6/8 official TYPICAL White tailed deer.
complete with beautiful mount and B&C official documents.
Today only
$35,000.00
(others have paid the same for 180 class antlers)

One owner, low miles, Canadian born and raised harvested right in the middle of this great province of Alberta.
Lowballers will be ignored
No tirekickers please

NOT!!!

Bearen09 · #**117** 07-03-2012, 09:48 PM

Still raining out here... How about in Edmonton..

ishootbambi · #**118** 07-03-2012, 10:27 PM

thanks for posting that grandview. in your second link, thats where i say it is most likely a non-typ point. from the photos, the red line shows what i see as well as a baseline for the beam. as i said before, without touching the rack myself to feel for the figure 8 i really cant say for sure if its there, but that picture seems to show it well.