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02-19-2019, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton Area
Posts: 4,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 whelen
Don't think you could do that ,those tags are for n on resident aliens.
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I know you can’t currently do it, what I was saying was a potential problem with letting residents buy tags through an outfitter
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02-19-2019, 02:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendan's dad
Question for the outfitters. Let's say you have 20 Clients in a year, how many of the 20 are international and how many are Canadian residents?
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I’ve had one Canadian client in the last 19 years I’ve been outfitting/guiding clients. Only one and the main animal of focus was grizzly which wasn’t available in Alberta.
Of the other species I’ve never had anybody that could draw a tag, but chose not to wait and just booked through an outfitter instead.
As a side note in BC I can guide residents to quota animals or animals on draw in my concession. Also the Outfitter can be guided in his own concession for those animals. As long as the government is getting their piece of the pie they don’t care who is doing the hunting.
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02-19-2019, 04:32 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
I’ve had one Canadian client in the last 19 years I’ve been outfitting/guiding clients. Only one and the main animal of focus was grizzly which wasn’t available in Alberta.
Of the other species I’ve never had anybody that could draw a tag, but chose not to wait and just booked through an outfitter instead.
As a side note in BC I can guide residents to quota animals or animals on draw in my concession. Also the Outfitter can be guided in his own concession for those animals. As long as the government is getting their piece of the pie they don’t care who is doing the hunting.
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You’ve never had a Canadian resident come to hunt caribou?
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02-19-2019, 04:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
You’ve never had a Canadian resident come to hunt caribou?
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Nope. Lots have talked about it, but in the end they don’t book. Those hunts sell pretty easily anyway, so it doesn’t matter to me. But lots are holding off when it’s one of the animals that’s truly going to be harder and harder to get.
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02-19-2019, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Nope. Lots have talked about it, but in the end they don’t book. Those hunts sell pretty easily anyway, so it doesn’t matter to me. But lots are holding off when it’s one of the animals that’s truly going to be harder and harder to get.
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For most of them i think its the thought of paying 30 percent more for a hunt in their own country since all of the hunts are in US funds
I know when we went years ago , the reason we chose him was he was one of the few outfitters that would take a fellow Canadian at par
__________________
Dont sweat the petty stuff, and dont pet the sweaty stuff
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02-19-2019, 06:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Port Alberni, Vancouver Island, BC
Posts: 3,444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper
It is more then 2%. They put in for moose, mule, antelope... draw with and AB buddy and go.
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Quite apparently NOT!
Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Here is the NR Special Licence data from 2016.
NR Hunter Hosted accounted for 1.2% of the draw licences issued.
2016 NR Special Licenses issued-
Total - 300
Applications - approx. 1000, Average Successful Priority Level - 3.3
WT - 1 out of 361 total licenses = 0.3%
MD - 149/10,188 = 1.5%
Elk - 32/1826 = 1.8%
Moose - 104/11,114 = 0.9%
Pronghorn - 14/678 = 2.1%
Total Licenses = 24,176
Total NR Licenses = 300, 1.2%
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Many Thanks WB, I stand corrected on my old mind's recall of 1.6.
At 1.2, if they do away with us, another chance every 100 years.
Marvelous.
Nog
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02-19-2019, 06:48 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
For most of them i think its the thought of paying 30 percent more for a hunt in their own country since all of the hunts are in US funds
I know when we went years ago , the reason we chose him was he was one of the few outfitters that would take a fellow Canadian at par
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Without a doubt the price is what’s holding most people back. Yukon and NWT caribou hunts are going for $17,000-$20,000 US by the time you buy your license and pay charter flights.
By the time you get yourself there, hunt and get your animal home you’re looking at $25,000 plus Canadian for a Caribou.
I don’t have the same class bulls as those northern areas have, but it’s still going to cost you $17-18,000 Canadian depending on where you come from.
That’s a lot of cheddar for most people. There’s also no way I’d do these hunts now at par, that’s most of my profit margin depending on the hunt.
Still better then a NWT moose at $40,000 Can or a B.C. stone at over $70,000 CAN 😳
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02-19-2019, 07:30 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Without a doubt the price is what’s holding most people back. Yukon and NWT caribou hunts are going for $17,000-$20,000 US by the time you buy your license and pay charter flights.
By the time you get yourself there, hunt and get your animal home you’re looking at $25,000 plus Canadian for a Caribou.
I don’t have the same class bulls as those northern areas have, but it’s still going to cost you $17-18,000 Canadian depending on where you come from.
That’s a lot of cheddar for most people. There’s also no way I’d do these hunts now at par, that’s most of my profit margin depending on the hunt.
Still better then a NWT moose at $40,000 Can or a B.C. stone at over $70,000 CAN 😳
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Ya its almost unattainable for the average guy. Im glad i went when i did You could take 2 and i still think it was $4200 Can all in, including gas to and from yellowknife . Food and a hotelroom... lol
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Dont sweat the petty stuff, and dont pet the sweaty stuff
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02-19-2019, 09:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
Ya its almost unattainable for the average guy. Im glad i went when i did You could take 2 and i still think it was $4200 Can all in, including gas to and from yellowknife . Food and a hotelroom... lol
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Ya, except those weren’t mountain caribou
Those other tundra drifters were definitely way more affordable years ago lol
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02-19-2019, 09:50 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Without a doubt the price is what’s holding most people back. Yukon and NWT caribou hunts are going for $17,000-$20,000 US by the time you buy your license and pay charter flights.
By the time you get yourself there, hunt and get your animal home you’re looking at $25,000 plus Canadian for a Caribou.
I don’t have the same class bulls as those northern areas have, but it’s still going to cost you $17-18,000 Canadian depending on where you come from.
That’s a lot of cheddar for most people. There’s also no way I’d do these hunts now at par, that’s most of my profit margin depending on the hunt.
Still better then a NWT moose at $40,000 Can or a B.C. stone at over $70,000 CAN 😳
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You guys on quota or what is it 5 points on top or larger?
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02-19-2019, 09:55 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
Here is the NR Special Licence data from 2016.
NR Hunter Hosted accounted for 1.2% of the draw licences issued.
2016 NR Special Licenses issued-
Total - 300
Applications - approx. 1000, Average Successful Priority Level - 3.3
WT - 1 out of 361 total licenses = 0.3%
MD - 149/10,188 = 1.5%
Elk - 32/1826 = 1.8%
Moose - 104/11,114 = 0.9%
Pronghorn - 14/678 = 2.1%
Total Licenses = 24,176
Total NR Licenses = 300, 1.2%
Are you going to maintain that eliminating NR from the draw is a worthwhile endeavour?
If our wildlife is being mismanaged, will excluding NR from the draw effect any positive change to the situation?
Why not put your energy into something that will increase game populations by 1.2%
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Where did you find these numbers?
I’d be interested to see what 2017 or 2018 was like due to the oil patch slow down.
I’m curious if it’s 300 total non resident draws or if that’s just the amount that had the priority?
Last edited by marky_mark; 02-19-2019 at 10:00 PM.
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02-19-2019, 10:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marky_mark
You guys on quota or what is it 5 points on top or larger?
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No quota, 5 on top with a back point or 6 or more on top.
Lots of legal bulls, and lots that aren’t
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02-20-2019, 05:14 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: W5
Posts: 1,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
I would never ever in a million years guide resident hunters on land I didn’t own and/or have complete control over,I’d be just shooting myself in the foot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf
And why is that.....money.
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No,nothing to do with money,but I’m not gonna give away my “intellectual property” for a measly few grand to a resident that can pull off a DIY hunt the following year on Crown land that I showed him which took me years of boot leather,sweat,thousands of $$ in fuel in hundreds of days of hunting/scouting to discover,nor introduce him to hunter friendly landowners that I put the time and effort into developing good relationships with,only to arrive the following year and the Landowner informs me that “oh that guy you guided here last year was just here last week and killed that 180” buck we’ve been watching for 3 years”
Or maybe it is about money? For 5 figures minimum I will happily sell a resident hunter a treestand strategically located on a prime piece of Crown land complete with trail cam pics.😝
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleSS
I don't think this would be an issue for high priority point tags. Moose, sheep, some mule deer zone, and some elk zones are a 10+ priority. If you outfitted in this zone and took a resident, then even if they did return, it would only be once every 10+ years.
Now, yes, I know they can tell friends and family and what not; so that complicates things.
Could you get them to sign a confidentially agreement or a non disclosure?
I don't know.
Also, with hunts such as sheep, you are not only offering up a tag, but the knowledge, and amenities along with it.
I know of a number of residents that have drawn tags and still hired an outfitter. They know they have the knowledge and the logistics to make it happen.
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I stand corrected and agree,a high priority or very difficult mountain hunt would be a different situation.I guess I was I was thinking more along the lines of deer or elk/moose etc where almost anybody could pull off a DIY hunt if you showed them where to go.
__________________
The toughest thing about waiting for the zombie apocalypse is pretending that I'm not excited.
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02-20-2019, 06:30 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
Ya, except those weren’t mountain caribou
Those other tundra drifters were definitely way more affordable years ago lol
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Ya i know...lol
I could have done the late hunt(the last week) in NWT for MTN for about the same plus air charter but it wasnt in the cards Its one of my biggest regrets
__________________
Dont sweat the petty stuff, and dont pet the sweaty stuff
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02-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
I would never ever in a million years guide resident hunters on land I didn’t own and/or have complete control over,I’d be just shooting myself in the foot.
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Just how exactly does an outfitter gain "complete control" over land that he doesn't own?
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Never say "Whoa" in a mud hole.
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02-20-2019, 12:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Okotoks
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadave
Just how exactly does an outfitter gain "complete control" over land that he doesn't own?
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Private land owner says "Mr Outfitter, I'm leaving all access to my land in your hands. Bring who you want, but you and whom ever you decide, has permission on my land"
Easy peesy
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02-20-2019, 12:47 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,914
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Non residents steal from all of us. Some claiming to be residents.
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02-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,920
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Can't be true
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper
Non residents steal from all of us. Some claiming to be residents.
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Really are you sure !!
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02-20-2019, 01:30 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 7,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleSS
Private land owner says "Mr Outfitter, I'm leaving all access to my land in your hands. Bring who you want, but you and whom ever you decide, has permission on my land"
Easy peesy
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......and then Mr Outfitter says thank you very much. Here's a cheque to show my appreciation.
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02-20-2019, 01:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North of the Kakwa
Posts: 3,967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokinyotes
......and then Mr Outfitter says thank you very much. Here's a cheque to show my appreciation.
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You should report them to F&W, that’s against the law in Alberta !
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02-20-2019, 02:00 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,914
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Kyle and and smokin got it all figured out! Lol
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02-20-2019, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,797
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Bigger issues boys...like who is a resident of Alberta eligible to hold a resident license and enter resident draws?
Far too many resident “imposters” who do not live here and claim resident benefits, Minimum tangible empirical/measurable and monitor-able requirements are needed to curb this activity IMHO.
LC
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02-20-2019, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Okotoks
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
You should report them to F&W, that’s against the law in Alberta !
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Couldn't agree more
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02-20-2019, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Okotoks
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Bigger issues boys...like who is a resident of Alberta eligible to hold a resident license and enter resident draws?
Far too many resident “imposters” who do not live here and claim resident benefits, Minimum tangible empirical/measurable and monitor-able requirements are needed to curb this activity IMHO.
LC
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I sure hope this issue gets rectified sooner than later
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02-20-2019, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: GRAND PRAIRIE
Posts: 5,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokinyotes
......and then Mr Outfitter says thank you very much. Here's a cheque to show my appreciation.
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No cheque ,they just hire them as guides
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02-20-2019, 05:17 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
No,nothing to do with money,but I’m not gonna give away my “intellectual property” for a measly few grand to a resident that can pull off a DIY hunt the following year on Crown land that I showed him which took me years of boot leather,sweat,thousands of $$ in fuel in hundreds of days of hunting/scouting to discover,nor introduce him to hunter friendly landowners that I put the time and effort into developing good relationships with,only to arrive the following year and the Landowner informs me that “oh that guy you guided here last year was just here last week and killed that 180” buck we’ve been watching for 3 years”
Or maybe it is about money? For 5 figures minimum I will happily sell a resident hunter a treestand strategically located on a prime piece of Crown land complete with trail cam pics.😝
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Oh it's definitely about money, sad day when our wildlife was reduced to dollars and cents by the government and outfitters. You only have to read the outfitters on this thread to know it's all about money. And they have the balls to call residents greedy, they are the only ones making money on the back of our wildlife.
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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02-20-2019, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 whelen
No cheque ,they just hire them as guides
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Or rent out the bunkhouse for $5000 for the season
__________________
Dont sweat the petty stuff, and dont pet the sweaty stuff
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02-20-2019, 05:37 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 whelen
No cheque ,they just hire them as guides
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So guides shouldn't be hired based on land ownership?
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02-20-2019, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton Area
Posts: 4,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmanbob
So guides shouldn't be hired based on land ownership?
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I think the question is if they actually guide or the employment is a legal work-around to pay the land owner for access.
If the land owner is actually guiding, then have at it.
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02-20-2019, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper
Non residents steal from all of us. Some claiming to be residents.
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No, no, no,.. Like tork and backpacker keep touting.
When non Albertans come to the province they are helping out the small communities economies,,,,,
Right?
Or is only when the outfitters get their cuts,,,,
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