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12-09-2017, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 7,029
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This thread could go on and on arguing the merits of everyones personal favourite. In reality there is not one specific caliber that shines above the rest. The 6.5's, .270, 7mm, .308 and.338 all kill game effectively with well placed shots. The majority of us own more than one rifle that overlap with other rifles we own. Its just that we like guns and shiny things.
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12-09-2017, 10:18 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 6,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyksta
the 270 is lighter bullets, and different powders than the 3006. It has less recoil and less energy, but it is a good popular option if 3006 was too much kick for someone
Heres my take on cartridges.
1. 7mmRemMag my opinion is the best shooter of all cartridges, but too big for me.
2. 3006 kicks harder than i enjoy in my light rifles
3. 308 win perfect recoil and i like short action
4. 270 win same recoil as 308 , a bit flatter shooting, but the skinner calibre drops its hole size ability and id rather go short action
5. 7mm-08 better recoil, nice but ill stick with the more popular 308 since i can do that recoil
6. 25-06 pretty cool, but my opinion would go to 270 win if i was to do long action.
7. 6.5 creedmore seems nice but too rare and im comfortable with more recoil so ill take higher energy of 7mm-08 or 308
8. 243 win. Super small recoil. Great for that purpose.
Get the biggest cartridge you can comfortably enjoy
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No real issues with any of the above but just to nitpick a little.
- recoil between 30-06 and 7RM is nada
- recoil between either of the above and the .270 is close to nada - I notice very little variance between my 270 and 7RM and both rifles have similar stocks.
- bigger hole with a 308 than a 270? Load 150 partitions into both and at all yardages the 270 is faster, flatter, and retains more energy so I'm confused as to how the 308 carves bigger holes. If you don't like that comp have a look at 140 AB's in the 270 vs 165's in the 308. The margins get even wider in favor of the 270. So I don't think a 308 will do a darn thing better hunting wise than a 270 other than shorten up your action (not really a factor in BA rifles), lower your brass cost for reloading, and allow one to shoot bigger bullets if you think that helps. If I'm in need of those the 308 is way down my list of choices.
Go back to the early days of the 270. If I'm not mistaken they had to slow it down to keep it from creating too much carnage on game. I don't really understand the poor acceptance levels for a cartridge that outdoes so many by a healthy margin in so many circumstances.
Maybe being an older cartridge it just can't run with the new cool kids on the block like the 7-08.
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12-09-2017, 10:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
No real issues with any of the above but just to nitpick a little.
- recoil between 30-06 and 7RM is nada
- recoil between either of the above and the .270 is close to nada - I notice very little variance between my 270 and 7RM and both rifles have similar stocks.
- bigger hole with a 308 than a 270? Load 150 partitions into both and at all yardages the 270 is faster, flatter, and retains more energy so I'm confused as to how the 308 carves bigger holes. If you don't like that comp have a look at 140 AB's in the 270 vs 165's in the 308. The margins get even wider in favor of the 270. So I don't think a 308 will do a darn thing better hunting wise than a 270 other than shorten up your action (not really a factor in BA rifles), lower your brass cost for reloading, and allow one to shoot bigger bullets if you think that helps. If I'm in need of those the 308 is way down my list of choices.
Go back to the early days of the 270. If I'm not mistaken they had to slow it down to keep it from creating too much carnage on game. I don't really understand the poor acceptance levels for a cartridge that outdoes so many by a healthy margin in so many circumstances.
Maybe being an older cartridge it just can't run with the new cool kids on the block like the 7-08.
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That is only your choice,lotsa of good old cartridges and the new cool kid bought one 37 years ago ,meaning me a 7mm 08 at gun store in kenora Ontario in 1980 or 81.Nothing new to me, specially guys who try and tell what there pet cartridge other's should shoot.Plus your wrong on the 270.In fact the 7mm/308 wildcat came out in 1958 which is almost the same as the 7mm 08.
Last edited by JD848; 12-09-2017 at 10:43 PM.
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12-09-2017, 10:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270person
No real issues with any of the above but just to nitpick a little.
- recoil between 30-06 and 7RM is nada
- recoil between either of the above and the .270 is close to nada - I notice very little variance between my 270 and 7RM and both rifles have similar stocks.
- bigger hole with a 308 than a 270? Load 150 partitions into both and at all yardages the 270 is faster, flatter, and retains more energy so I'm confused as to how the 308 carves bigger holes. If you don't like that comp have a look at 140 AB's in the 270 vs 165's in the 308. The margins get even wider in favor of the 270. So I don't think a 308 will do a darn thing better hunting wise than a 270 other than shorten up your action (not really a factor in BA rifles), lower your brass cost for reloading, and allow one to shoot bigger bullets if you think that helps. If I'm in need of those the 308 is way down my list of choices.
Go back to the early days of the 270. If I'm not mistaken they had to slow it down to keep it from creating too much carnage on game. I don't really understand the poor acceptance levels for a cartridge that outdoes so many by a healthy margin in so many circumstances.
Maybe being an older cartridge it just can't run with the new cool kids on the block like the 7-08.
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As per Nosler a .308 can start a 150 a little over a 100 fps faster then a .270 can start a 150. The .308 can start a 165 the same speed the .270 starts it's 150.
I didn't bother to run them through the calculator to check down range velocity but my money says they're to close to care. Lets not forget the .308 can also shoot 180-240 grain bullets as well.
Just keeping the facts straight, I use a .270 and don't even own a .308 anymore.
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12-09-2017, 10:45 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,853
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I often hear how gun company hype sells the creed, why didnt it sell other fine young thing cartridges. Its because the creed makes perfect sense in its niche unlike the 260 which i own and like. However why would you want a creed in t3 when you can have a swede which i also own and like. I also own and almost never shoot a 270 which probly makes most sense for flat shooting non magnum power over hunting range except for maybe the 30 06 we are starting to get up in recoil.
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12-09-2017, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Friends don't let friends shot 168's.
Always more wrong then wrong. Ha
Don
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12-10-2017, 07:05 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505
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As mentioned, depends on the sources where the information is gathered I guess.
I'm guessing that the folks that reload their own ammo find data that works for then.
BULLET WEIGHT168 GR. SIE HPBT
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderCFE 223
Bullet Diameter.308"
C.O.L.2.800"
Starting Load
Grains46.6
Velocity (ft/s)2,662
Pressure48,200 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains49.0
Velocity (ft/s)2,828
Pressure60,400 PSI
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(m) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2856.1 2.558 3042.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.7 0.6 2658.0 2.381 2635.1 0.119 21.0 18.3
200 -4.4 -1.9 3.1 1.3 2467.4 2.210 2270.7 0.247 43.5 19.0
300 -15.6 -4.5 7.2 2.1 2284.7 2.046 1946.9 0.385 67.8 19.7
400 -34.9 -7.6 13.3 2.9 2110.2 1.890 1660.9 0.535 94.1 20.5
500 -63.4 -11.1 21.6 3.8 1943.6 1.741 1409.0 0.697 122.6 21.
1409 ft-lbs energy.
I guess 19 ft-lbs energy difference using The IMR data info and JBM calculater might not work for us.
Hopefully wrong of course
Don
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12-10-2017, 07:21 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Funny thing is that Hornady them selves list the A Max 168gr at 500 yards at 1535 ft-lbs energy.
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...mance-match#!/
Kinda strange they would say they would flip flop on their own Web sight.
Oh well.
Don
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12-10-2017, 07:23 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,296
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I have read these same type of discussions verbatim since I subscribed to the internet in 1995. One thing I do know is to not trust any published data until you chrony it yourself be it reloading data or what factory loads claim.
__________________
An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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12-10-2017, 07:42 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North east AB
Posts: 396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
I have read these same type of discussions verbatim since I subscribed to the internet in 1995. One thing I do know is to not trust any published data until you chrony it yourself be it reloading data or what factory loads claim.
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X2.
As I don’t own a chrono I just worry about moa and over pressuring. Get best moa without over pressures.
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Huntin and fishin fool!
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12-10-2017, 07:58 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
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This is the Superformance load. The Superformance loads produce more velocity than the standard loads, and there are good reasons why handloaders can't duplicate the Superformance loads? Hornady actually explains how the Superformance loads differ from the standard loads on their site.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
Last edited by elkhunter11; 12-10-2017 at 08:18 AM.
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12-10-2017, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Totally agree Elk, getting the 168gr'ers into the 2850 ft-per seconds at muzzle is do-able using the CFE 223 powder @ 60.400 psi,,, "still a hot load mind you."
At least it produces 1400 ft-lbs energy down range beyond the "normal" Harvesting distances.
That's the benefit of the 30 cal 178 grainer @ 2700 ft-per seconds with Varget or IMR 4064.
The 178gr is about 35 ft-lbs less energy at that distance, but it has a fraction of better BC, SD, and bucks the winds nice. I'm sure that the 6.5 and 308 are both good cartrages.
The critters probably wouldn't know the difference. Ha.
All good
Don
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12-10-2017, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,280
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Although my fav is a 270WSM with 140gr Accubonds or 130gr TSX, a 270Win with 130-150gr will flatten the giant, armoured elk often mentioned on this forum. It can be loaded hot with Gucci bullets or ammo can be found on any shelf. Recoil is very mild.
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12-10-2017, 09:34 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,648
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What amuses me is that people go after elk or moose with a bow and it's all good, but as soon as people start talking rifles it seems that one needs some great humongous amount of energy at 300 yards and a certain bullet blah, blah, blah.
The cartridge and rifle are the smallest part of the equation in hunting, especially with the choices these days.
Danged near anything will work that is legal, the parameters being the hunter's own limitations , be it in a bolt, falling block or break action or any other action of rifle for that matter.
The length difference between a short action and a long action is so small it is laughable, especially considering some rifles do not come in true true short actions !
Wanna look at short actions?
Take a look at the Ruger no.1, Browning 1885, Sharps, H&R, etc.
Now THOSE are real short action rifles, they just doon't have magazines!!
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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12-10-2017, 10:13 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
As mentioned, depends on the sources where the information is gathered I guess.
I'm guessing that the folks that reload their own ammo find data that works for then.
BULLET WEIGHT168 GR. SIE HPBT
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderCFE 223
Bullet Diameter.308"
C.O.L.2.800"
Starting Load
Grains46.6
Velocity (ft/s)2,662
Pressure48,200 PSI
Maximum Load
Grains49.0
Velocity (ft/s)2,828
Pressure60,400 PSI
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(m) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2856.1 2.558 3042.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.7 0.6 2658.0 2.381 2635.1 0.119 21.0 18.3
200 -4.4 -1.9 3.1 1.3 2467.4 2.210 2270.7 0.247 43.5 19.0
300 -15.6 -4.5 7.2 2.1 2284.7 2.046 1946.9 0.385 67.8 19.7
400 -34.9 -7.6 13.3 2.9 2110.2 1.890 1660.9 0.535 94.1 20.5
500 -63.4 -11.1 21.6 3.8 1943.6 1.741 1409.0 0.697 122.6 21.
1409 ft-lbs energy.
I guess 19 ft-lbs energy difference using The IMR data info and JBM calculater might not work for us.
Hopefully wrong of course
Don
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Its hard to see what the chart means but what is it showing
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12-10-2017, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
What amuses me is that people go after elk or moose with a bow and it's all good, but as soon as people start talking rifles it seems that one needs some great humongous amount of energy at 300 yards and a certain bullet blah, blah, blah.
The cartridge and rifle are the smallest part of the equation in hunting, especially with the choices these days.
Danged near anything will work that is legal, the parameters being the hunter's own limitations , be it in a bolt, falling block or break action or any other action of rifle for that matter.
The length difference between a short action and a long action is so small it is laughable, especially considering some rifles do not come in true true short actions !
Wanna look at short actions?
Take a look at the Ruger no.1, Browning 1885, Sharps, H&R, etc.
Now THOSE are real short action rifles, they just doon't have magazines!!
Cat
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Yup the .30-30 Winchester is just a pop gun but come Aug 25th folks are out hunting moose and elk with a string and a sharp stick.
__________________
An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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12-10-2017, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
Yup the .30-30 Winchester is just a pop gun but come Aug 25th folks are out hunting moose and elk with a string and a sharp stick.
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You two realize a PROPERLY setup bow/arrow will provide a pass through on hippo, elephant, cape and water buff etc? A good bowhunter realizes the limitations of his gear and physical ability and works with them, as should a good rifle hunter.
With either rifle or bow a thinking man will plan for what animals he wants to shoot at the angles he wants to be able to shoot them at and live within those limitations.
Who's going hippo hunting with a 30-30?
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12-10-2017, 11:55 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coiloil37
Who's going hippo hunting with a 30-30?
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12-10-2017, 01:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coiloil37
Who's going hippo hunting with a 30-30?
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Nobody in the WMU’s I hunt..
__________________
An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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12-10-2017, 02:03 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Totally agree Cat.
My arrows have taken some ok critters.
Don
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12-10-2017, 03:26 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: High River, AB
Posts: 10,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
Totally agree Cat.
My arrows have taken some ok critters.
Don
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Pictures of critters and arrows, please.
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12-10-2017, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 57
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If you already are a fan of the BLR, go with a BLR in 7 mm rem mag. The gun in 7mm rem mag weighs about a pound a oz. heavier than your 308, with of course longer action and longer barrel, but recoil would be about the same as your 308....muscle memory and the same recoil should make for an easy transition.
Interestingly enough the BlR rem mag weighs a full pound (according to specs) more than a BLR in 270 wsm, or 300 wsm, so recoil with the rem mag is going to be markedly less than these other calibers with similar performance.
Less recoil means more fun in practise, and more accuracy when it counts...
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12-10-2017, 04:38 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North east AB
Posts: 396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ossie
If you already are a fan of the BLR, go with a BLR in 7 mm rem mag. The gun in 7mm rem mag weighs about a pound a oz. heavier than your 308, with of course longer action and longer barrel, but recoil would be about the same as your 308....muscle memory and the same recoil should make for an easy transition.
Interestingly enough the BlR rem mag weighs a full pound (according to specs) more than a BLR in 270 wsm, or 300 wsm, so recoil with the rem mag is going to be markedly less than these other calibers with similar performance.
Less recoil means more fun in practise, and more accuracy when it counts...
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Mines a blr81. Steel receiver and straight stock. Don’t care for the lightenings aluminum receiver and pistol grips. If I found a blr 81 7mm long action in good shape I might.
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Huntin and fishin fool!
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12-10-2017, 05:20 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,949
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Has shot placement been considered yet?
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-10-2017, 05:23 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Has shot placement been considered yet?
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Shoot I didn't think of that! Did the merits of the .270 vs. 30-06 get settled either?
LC
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12-10-2017, 06:07 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun
Pictures of critters and arrows, please.
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Via PM only my friend, I mentioned a while back, I won't share game harvests on open forums.
Don
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12-10-2017, 06:19 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
Via PM only my friend, I mentioned a while back, I won't share game harvests on open forums.
Don
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There are a lot of guys like this. I just refuse to post my best heads. Laughing!
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-10-2017, 06:46 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
There are a lot of guys like this. I just refuse to post my best heads. Laughing!
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I just refuse to post my worst heads. Laughing!
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12-10-2017, 06:53 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dreadful Valley
Posts: 14,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons
Via PM only my friend, I mentioned a while back, I won't share game harvests on open forums.
Don
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Interesting position.
__________________
There are no absolutes
Last edited by Dick284; 12-10-2017 at 06:59 PM.
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12-10-2017, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick284
Interesting position.
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Not really, like my post above mentioned, ok critters.
Even if they were Bruins, I still wouldn't post them.
Harvesting is self, self best at what we are pursuing.
I have no record book this or that since I'm a game harvester.
Nothing more, and nothing less.
Claim to fame of nothing but my own personal best of what critters allow them selves to be harvested.
Don
PS: Offer still stands
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