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12-28-2014, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Now answer my question. How is it possible, with the massive increase in gun ownership in the US, THAT THE CRIME RATE WITH GUNS IS FALLING?
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8
Weapons 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
Total 14,916 14,224 13,752 13,164 12,664
Total firearms: 10,129 9,528 9,199 8,874 8,583
Handguns 7,398 6,800 6,501 6,115 6,220
Rifles 453 380 351 367 323
Shotguns 457 442 423 366 356
Other guns 116 81 96 93 97
Firearms, type not stated 1,705 1,825 1,828 1,933 1,587
Knives or cutting instruments 1,817 1,888 1,836 1,732 1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 647 603 623 549 496
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)1 869 875 817 769 728
Poison 10 9 7 11 5
Explosives 1 11 2 4 12
Fire 131 85 98 78 75
Narcotics 52 34 52 45 29
Drowning 12 16 8 10 15
Strangulation 134 89 122 122 85
Asphyxiation 109 87 84 98 89
Other weapons or weapons not stated 1,005 999 904 872 853
1 Pushed is included in personal weapons.
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Wow, handguns rank #1 so if they were outlawed would that number drop from 6202 to 322 in the equation, just a thought?
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12-28-2014, 05:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigrant
That is my point. Lots of dangerous examples where having a handgun did not help me in any way. So really no need to carry, and thus stopped carrying
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At least you had the choice, that's all I want.
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12-28-2014, 05:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Wow, handguns rank #1 so if they were outlawed would that number drop from 6202 to 322 in the equation, just a thought?
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So if handguns were outlawed, all of the criminals would just turn theirs in?
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-28-2014, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
The layer was driving not walking, who would have noticed if he had a long gun in the vehicle?
The person that walked up the driveway could have driven up to the driveway, The crooks at the ATM could also have been in a vehicle, the same with the people that woke him up in the house, or jumped the fence into the yard. Not everyone that is planning to commit a crime with a long gun is stupid enough to walk around showing it to everyone first. And all but the first example were planned crimes, and people that plan crimes in advance don't care about our firearms regulations.
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Immigrant's quote
The criminals have access to those weapons. They choose handguns. Because it can be concealed. You can walk down the street and "blend in" with the crowd.
I get your point that a criminal will use all means possible to commit his crime. But lets not make it easy for them
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12-28-2014, 05:30 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Wow, handguns rank #1 so if they were outlawed would that number drop from 6202 to 322 in the equation, just a thought?
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Just a deflection for the question, is more accurate.
A murder is a criminal, what would lead you to believe that a criminal is going to turn in his handgun? Why is firearm violence dramatically increasing in the UK, they have all but banned handguns and it's almost impossible to get a long gun?
You still haven't answered my question about increasing gun ownership and declining gun crime.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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12-28-2014, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
So if handguns were outlawed, all of the criminals would just turn theirs in?
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And where in god's name do the criminal element get these hand guns, from Walmart? please tell me.
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12-28-2014, 05:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
So from your statement and that of your example the outcome was no different wither they carried or not. So why carry??
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It points out that carrying a gun did not make the situation any MORE dangerous than not carrying a gun. So the gun was a non factor, so why fear it.
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12-28-2014, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
A murder is a criminal, what would lead you to believe that a criminal is going to turn in his handgun?
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See above post.
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12-28-2014, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
And where in god's name do the criminal element get these hand guns, from Walmart? please tell me.
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They are criminals, I'd guess they acquire them by committing crimes.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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12-28-2014, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
It points out that carrying a gun did not make the situation any MORE dangerous than not carrying a gun. So the gun was a non factor, so why fear it.
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Never ever said I fear a hand gun, the ability for anyone to get the chance to scares me!
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12-28-2014, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
And where in god's name do the criminal element get these hand guns, from Walmart? please tell me.
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Criminals are smart enough to manufacture synthetic drugs, why wouldn't they be smart enough to get lathe and milling machines to make their own? More likely they'd acquire CNC machinery and turn out better firearms than Norinco.
In the case of Mexican drug cartels the anti gun OBAMA administration gave them lots of guns, including full auto AK-47s.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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12-28-2014, 05:36 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigrant
I believe i have the "right" to sleep at night without the fear of having a pistol stuck in my mouth
I have the "right" to draw money at the ATM without worrying if the guy behind me is going to shoot me in the guts
I have the "right" to go to a hockey game with my son and. Ot worry if the drunk guy in the seat behind me is going to make good on his threats to "f@&$ up" the guy next to me because he said something bad about his favourite player
I have the "right" not to worry if the guy pretending to ask for a loonie is going to stick a gun in my face and jack my car
I have the "right" to live in a peaceful society
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You should also have the right to defend your life. You don't have that here.
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12-28-2014, 05:37 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
They are criminals, I'd guess they acquire them by committing crimes.
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Wha... ok so they get them from maybe law abiding citizens through theft of said guns. so if it was hard for the average joe to have a hand gun there would be less to steal unless you live in the US where there are lots of them to get your hands on.
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12-28-2014, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Never ever said I fear a hand gun, the ability for anyone to get the chance to scares me!
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Who said anyone could get them? That has never once been mentioned. What has been mentioned on numerous occasions is training and licensing to be able to carry, like the system that exists already. No one has advocated dropping the license system we currently have for restricteds. Why do the anti gun crowd always jump to that conclusion?
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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12-28-2014, 05:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Wha... ok so they get them from maybe law abiding citizens through theft of said guns. so if it was hard for the average joe to have a hand gun there would be less to steal unless you live in the US where there are lots of them to get your hands on.
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Wha, so where do Canadian criminals get them from?
There are less guns in the UK, it almost impossible to own a long gun there, yet their gun crime rates keep going up. I wonder where they get theirs? Hmmmmmm
Only a moron would advocate disarming good people to reduce crime.
__________________
Upset a Lefty, Fly a Drone!
"I find it interesting that some folk will pay to use a range, use a golf course, use a garage bay but think landowners should have to give permission for free. Do these same people think hookers should be treated like landowners?" pitw
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12-28-2014, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Criminals are smart enough to manufacture synthetic drugs, why wouldn't they be smart enough to get lathe and milling machines to make their own? More likely they'd acquire CNC machinery and turn out better firearms than Norinco.
ahhh come on now are you serious or yanking my chain here.
In the case of Mexican drug cartels the anti gun OBAMA administration gave them lots of guns, including full auto AK-47s.
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Ok I believe you!
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12-28-2014, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 5,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Wha... ok so they get them from maybe law abiding citizens through theft of said guns. so if it was hard for the average joe to have a hand gun there would be less to steal unless you live in the US where there are lots of them to get your hands on.
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On paper maybe. Doesn't seem to be working that way up here tho does it?
I'm going to ask this again, why are you so terrified of your fellow Canadians?
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12-28-2014, 05:43 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
Whoa, so where do Canadian criminals get them from?
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Law abiding citizen in the US that have their hand guns stolen, which are plenty full there, I don't know you tell me.
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12-28-2014, 05:44 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,136
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Quote:
And where in god's name do the criminal element get these hand guns, from Walmart? please tell me.
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Probably by either stealing them, or by buying them from illegal importers. Some have even been reported stolen from police or the military, are you going to disarm the police and military, to prevent criminals from stealing their firearms? You could shut down the sales of all firearms in the country, and criminals would still have them.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-28-2014, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L.
On paper maybe. Doesn't seem to be working that way up here tho does it?
I'm going to ask this again, why are you so terrified of your fellow Canadians?
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Again on average I am not, as I feel most are good Citizens and are law abiding. Some not so responsible to possess hand guns let along a drives license. What makes you think I fear Canadians?
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12-28-2014, 05:46 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Never ever said I fear a hand gun, the ability for anyone to get the chance to scares me!
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I should have said the act of carrying a gun was a non factor, so why fear it.
I am sure Immigrant is an average guy, why would you fear him carrying a gun.
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12-28-2014, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillyreefer
How many incidents were avoided because a good guy pulled a firearm and the **** rats left rather than risk being perforated?
Immigrant you seem to have been in a lot of flaps that ended poorly, were you ever involved in one where the firearm helped you?
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I never pulled my gun and "got out of a situation". These things happen when you least expect it. It does not mean the criminal noticed the bulge in the small of my back and moved on to an easier target
If we argue that the criminals already have access to rifles and shotguns, so handguns is no big deal, then we can argue that we also have access to the same weapons. So if they can commit a crime with these weapons we can defend ourselves with these weapons, so no need to add handguns to the mix?
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12-28-2014, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Probably by either stealing them, or by buying them from illegal importers. Some have even been reported stolen from police or the military, are you going to disarm the police and military, to prevent criminals from stealing their firearms? You could shut down the sales of all firearms in the country, and criminals would still have them.
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Nope not my place, just do not want to make hand guns anymore available than they are now.
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12-28-2014, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitecourt
Posts: 5,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
Again on average I am not, as I feel most are good Citizens and are law abiding. Some not so responsible to possess hand guns let along a drives license. What makes you think I fear Canadians?
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Damn near every post you've made in this thread. If you don't fear them in general, why would anyone being qualified to carry a pistol change that? Do you fear the police? They have handguns.
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12-28-2014, 05:56 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigrant
I never pulled my gun and "got out of a situation". These things happen when you least expect it. It does not mean the criminal noticed the bulge in the small of my back and moved on to an easier target
If we argue that the criminals already have access to rifles and shotguns, so handguns is no big deal, then we can argue that we also have access to the same weapons. So if they can commit a crime with these weapons we can defend ourselves with these weapons, so no need to add handguns to the mix?
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By your logic police should carry shotguns and rifles not handguns.
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12-28-2014, 05:57 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expmler
I should have said the act of carrying a gun was a non factor, so why fear it.
I am sure Immigrant is an average guy, why would you fear him carrying a gun.
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I believe there is no need to carry a hand gun, I believe in Canada there is no need and believe the right to carry is in no way going to make MY life safer. I do not make the call wither to legalize it or not, however I have the right to say no if I have the opportunity.
I was raised with fire arms in our family, they were there to hunt with and I ingaged in that sport. I am not involved in the sport any longer and have no issue with hunting. I do have an issue with people carrying hand guns. My choice why does it bother you so?
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12-28-2014, 06:01 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L.
Damn near every post you've made in this thread. If you don't fear them in general, why would anyone being qualified to carry a pistol change that? Do you fear the police? They have handguns.
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I do not belief it would make society here better if carry permits were available to the general public. If you are so pumped to have a hand gun go get a permit, go to the range and pump out all the brass you want, Why is it so important to you to have the right to pack it around with you all day. Do you fear your surroundings so much and distrust your fellow man you need the right to carry????????????????
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12-28-2014, 06:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Over That Hill
Posts: 3,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigrant
That is exactly why I chose to live here. The odds of my examples happening here are slim to none. Why? Because handguns are restricted and very difficult to come by
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Sorry bud, but your story sounds a tad on the made up side!
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12-28-2014, 06:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
I believe there is no need to carry a hand gun, I believe in Canada there is no need and believe the right to carry is in no way going to make MY life safer. I do not make the call wither to legalize it or not, however I have the right to say no if I have the opportunity.
I was raised with fire arms in our family, they were there to hunt with and I ingaged in that sport. I am not involved in the sport any longer and have no issue with hunting. I do have an issue with people carrying hand guns. My choice why does it bother you so?
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Your feelings and beliefs deprive others of the right to carry a gun to defend their life if necessary.
Should my feelings and beliefs about your opinion deprive you from the right to express it.
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12-28-2014, 06:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lizard Lake, SK.
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javlin101
I do not belief it would make society here better if carry permits were available to the general public. If you are so pumped to have a hand gun go get a permit, go to the range and pump out all the brass you want, Why is it so important to you to have the right to pack it around with you all day. Do you fear your surroundings so much and distrust your fellow man you need the right to carry????????????????
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I do not believe it would make it any worse. I do have a permit and go to the range regularly, along with many members of the general public.
And nobody gets shot even though everyone is carrying a handgun.
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