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06-23-2012, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
If everybody picked up a bow to avoid the mule deer draw it would be all on a draw anyway , so whats the difference.
The general mulie tag for archery is just a way to kill a big mulie every year and still biuld up priority for a draw tag. You tell me how that manages a population
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Just look on AO , you have some of the most proficient bowhunters in Alberta on here! A lot of them have killed some tremendous muleys. But how many of them have done it in back to back years? Or how many have more than 2-3 big Muleys in their lifetime?
This fantasy that bowhunters kill big Muleys every year is as real as the whole black dually thing!
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06-23-2012, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
Just look on AO , you have some of the most proficient bowhunters in Alberta on here! A lot of them have killed some tremendous muleys. But how many of them have done it in back to back years? Or how many have more than 2-3 big Muleys in their lifetime?
This fantasy that bowhunters kill big Muleys every year is as real as the whole black dually thing!
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I can name off 6 0r 7 with out even thinking about it . Im not begrudging the silver sliver boys, they are good at what they do . It just takes practice ,and some stalking skill. But lets face it, this is no longer the day of the stick bow,with todays modern equipment .Bows with 80%let off,fancy carbon arrows,lumenok, equipment capeable of shooting out to 90 yrds. Come on boys this is hardly a primitive weapon any more
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06-23-2012, 07:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
I can name off 6 0r 7 with out even thinking about it . Im not begrudging the silver sliver boys, they are good at what they do . It just takes practice ,and some stalking skill. But lets face it, this is no longer the day of the stick bow,with todays modern equipment .Bows with 80%let off,fancy carbon arrows,lumenok, equipment capeable of shooting out to 90 yrds. Come on boys this is hardly a primitive weapon any more
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.....lol.....90 yard shots on game are hardly a "common occurance" nor should they be
Advancement in some areas is a good thing, helps to have a cleaner kill on game.
65-80% let off has been around for a long time. Lumenoks only assist with recovering an animal and helping judge shot placement... not with shooting it?? Carbon arrows are lighter than aluminum and offer a lighter arrow for quicker speeds and a little more room for error in distance judgement....
Lets discuss the advances in rifles, ammunition and scope technology...shall we? Range finding, illuminated, fog proof, BDC, custom turrets, etc....
FWIW I bow and rifle hunt, something tells me you haven't spent much time around bows or those who use them. No that it is a bad thing but you need to learn a bit more about what you are ranting about....
LC
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06-23-2012, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 186
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so many experts on Archery and how easy it is. Same guys who show up 2 days before the season starts and would be lucky to hit a pie plate at 10 yards.
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06-23-2012, 07:23 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
.....lol.....90 yard shots on game are hardly a "common occurance" nor should they be
Advancement in some areas is a good thing, helps to have a cleaner kill on game.
FWIW I bow and rifle hunt, something tells me you haven't spent much time around bows or those who use them. No that it is a bad thing but you need to learn a bit more about what you are ranting about....
LC
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I said they can ,i never said they should.
And you would be wrong . I have many friends including a brother who are very proficient with a bow. I have one myself, just never shot anything but paper and gophers with it. You or i may not be able to kill deer consistently at 70 + yards ,but i know guys that can and do
And again i state; they can , i never said they should
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06-23-2012, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
I said they can ,i never said they should.
And you would be wrong . I have many friends including a brother who are very proficient with a bow. I have one myself, just never shot anything but paper and gophers with it. You or i may not be able to kill deer consistently at 70 + yards ,but i know guys that can and do
And again i state; they can , i never said they should
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Well then you should know that hunting with a bow for anything is hardly a "slam dunk"....I was giving you the benefit of the doubt
LC
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06-23-2012, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
I can name off 6 0r 7 with out even thinking about it . Im not begrudging the silver sliver boys, they are good at what they do . It just takes practice ,and some stalking skill. But lets face it, this is no longer the day of the stick bow,with todays modern equipment .Bows with 80%let off,fancy carbon arrows,lumenok, equipment capeable of shooting out to 90 yrds. Come on boys this is hardly a primitive weapon any more
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The weapon is only as good as the guy using it!
Let's face it, the 6 or 7 guys you can name, and I'll assume we might have similar lists. I'll hoot they shoot there bows daily, they never stop scouting year round, they spend thousands of dollars on equipment and hundreds upon hundreds of hours out at it!
Doesn't sound like an average person to me! Thus they don't get average results! I'll assume that your hunting footage isn't anywhere near the professionals on here! No different then the few dedicated bowhunters!
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06-23-2012, 07:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
The weapon is only as good as the guy using it!
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That says it all.....
LC
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06-23-2012, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 186
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That Potty guy is a smart guy
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06-23-2012, 07:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
Just look on AO , you have some of the most proficient bowhunters in Alberta on here! A lot of them have killed some tremendous muleys. But how many of them have done it in back to back years? Or how many have more than 2-3 big Muleys in their lifetime?
This fantasy that bowhunters kill big Muleys every year is as real as the whole black dually thing!
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I know over a dozen people that smash 170+ mule deer yearly with stick and string....
But im not here to argue that bow hunters kill all the mule deer...I know they dont.
But i am happy as hell that they might be going on draw. Theres no arguing that it wont increase the trophy quality....I dont just like to kill those big buggers, chasing them with the camera is just as fun!!
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06-23-2012, 07:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
I said they can ,i never said they should.
And you would be wrong . I have many friends including a brother who are very proficient with a bow. I have one myself, just never shot anything but paper and gophers with it. You or i may not be able to kill deer consistently at 70 + yards ,but i know guys that can and do
And again i state; they can , i never said they should
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What have you been smoking? lol
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06-23-2012, 07:52 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadeer
I know over a dozen people that smash 170+ mule deer yearly with stick and string....
But im not here to argue that bow hunters kill all the mule deer...I know they dont.
But i am happy as hell that they might be going on draw. Theres no arguing that it wont increase the trophy quality....I dont just like to kill those big buggers, chasing them with the camera is just as fun!!
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X2
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06-23-2012, 07:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rycroft
Posts: 21,548
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Elite bowhunter's ganging up again ???
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06-23-2012, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 3,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringer
What have you been smoking? lol
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Like i said you may not be able to , but there are guys that can
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06-23-2012, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,818
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LOL...this thread cracks me up. Read through it and somehow the guys who use archery tackle are "out-slaying" the rifle guys....YAH OK
The sad fact of the matter is that things have been mis-managed (both the hunters and the game) to the point where everything will be on draw and some age old traditions will no longer exist.
Mind you today's society could give in aflying you know what about traditions....
Heck I remember the day of the general moose tag....as a family of hunters we would only take what we needed to get us through till next season, whether we use bow or rifle to do it....now we rotate our draws in the same fashion...
LC
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06-23-2012, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertadeer
I know over a dozen people that smash 170+ mule deer yearly with stick and string....
But im not here to argue that bow hunters kill all the mule deer...I know they dont.
But i am happy as hell that they might be going on draw. Theres no arguing that it wont increase the trophy quality....I dont just like to kill those big buggers, chasing them with the camera is just as fun!!
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A fair and honest answer why you would like to see Archery Antlered Mule deer on an province wide draw.
Many non and anti-hunters share your opinion.
Where there is no conservation concern created by a general season, we All should be fightng to keep it, for the sake of Hunting's future.
If the trend continues, bit by bit, ALL big game will be on a draw system, as IS the desire of many wildlife managers. I warned about the anti-hunting wildlife management processes coming into vougue in the sheep threads, and these concerns are now coming true.
Stop being blind people. The present course of wildlife managment is to have ALL mature animals on a very restrictive draw system. This is a means to an end, the end of "trophy" hunting first, then to end hunting.
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06-23-2012, 08:04 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb356
Elite bowhunter's ganging up again ???
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What makes us elite? Is it that we say that we are not as good as rifle guys make us out to be! Or is it that we actually are?
I don't know if we should be offended or take it as a compliment , the elite comment!
Thanks.
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06-23-2012, 08:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Rycroft
Posts: 21,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
What makes us elite? Is it that we say that we are not as good as rifle guys make us out to be! Or is it that we actually are?
I don't know if we should be offended or take it as a compliment , the elite comment!
Thanks.
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I'll keep shootin my crossgun er bow and let you boy's fight'er out !!!
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06-23-2012, 08:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyd
Like i said you may not be able to , but there are guys that can
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Who?
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06-23-2012, 08:52 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
A fair and honest answer why you would like to see Archery Antlered Mule deer on an province wide draw.
Many non and anti-hunters share your opinion.
Where there is no conservation concern created by a general season, we All should be fightng to keep it, for the sake of Hunting's future.
If the trend continues, bit by bit, ALL big game will be on a draw system, as IS the desire of many wildlife managers. I warned about the anti-hunting wildlife management processes coming into vougue in the sheep threads, and these concerns are now coming true.
Stop being blind people. The present course of wildlife managment is to have ALL mature animals on a very restrictive draw system. This is a means to an end, the end of "trophy" hunting first, then to end hunting.
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Thats exactly there long term agenda.Thats why they mismanage the resource in order to expand the draw system.
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06-23-2012, 09:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In the 400's
Posts: 6,581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
A fair and honest answer why you would like to see Archery Antlered Mule deer on an province wide draw.
Many non and anti-hunters share your opinion.
Where there is no conservation concern created by a general season, we All should be fightng to keep it, for the sake of Hunting's future.
If the trend continues, bit by bit, ALL big game will be on a draw system, as IS the desire of many wildlife managers. I warned about the anti-hunting wildlife management processes coming into vougue in the sheep threads, and these concerns are now coming true.
Stop being blind people. The present course of wildlife managment is to have ALL mature animals on a very restrictive draw system. This is a means to an end, the end of "trophy" hunting first, then to end hunting.
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Exactly!
Every piece we lose, only strengthens the anti's position and gets them closer to eliminating hunting!
15,000 bowhunters. Remember, the vast majority of them are also rifle hunters, fishermen, bird hunters and gun owners. When issues arise that benefit outdoorsmen, we all stood behind the stance or fellow outdoorsmen we're fighting for! Guys who never sheep hunted , wrote letters, guys who have never owned a rifle, supported and did what they could to get the registry abolished . But when we ask for support in our causes, we might as well be terrorists!
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06-23-2012, 09:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Of Leduc,AB
Posts: 1,386
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Wow this thread keeps going on & on. I thought they would have locked it by now & say the words "this thread ran it course" like they do on other threads.
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"Shot through the heart, and Dune's to blame. His 308 kill's big game."---Dead Doevi
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06-23-2012, 09:20 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking buffalo
A fair and honest answer why you would like to see Archery Antlered Mule deer on an province wide draw.
Many non and anti-hunters share your opinion.
Where there is no conservation concern created by a general season, we All should be fightng to keep it, for the sake of Hunting's future.
If the trend continues, bit by bit, ALL big game will be on a draw system, as IS the desire of many wildlife managers. I warned about the anti-hunting wildlife management processes coming into vougue in the sheep threads, and these concerns are now coming true.
Stop being blind people. The present course of wildlife managment is to have ALL mature animals on a very restrictive draw system. This is a means to an end, the end of "trophy" hunting first, then to end hunting.
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This is true, as i can only speak for the WMU's i am familiar with. Its no secret that in the last 5 years mule deer numbers have dropped drastically up here. And every year theres more and more hunters.
I would be just as satisfied cutting the general bow season shorter or putting it in early December.
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06-23-2012, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 220
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mulies
There was a meeting in Lethbridge a few weeks back. 3 southern SRD biologists, a few members of SABA (southern Alberta Bowhunters Assoc.) and a couple of others attended. It was actually organized by SRD. It was a small group and basically an open discussion for any issues that were brought up. Since there have been rumors of archery mule deer going to draw, that was what was mainly discussed. The bios acknowlegded SRD was proposing archery draws in zones exceeding the 15%. The power point charts highlighted many WMU's in the south indicating a 15%+ harvest by archers. One of the zones was WMU 212, an archery only zone. Interestingly WMU 404 was another. When questioned directly about that zone one of the bios said there were over 40 antlered mule deer harvested by archers last year and only 10 by rifle hunters! When asked where those number were derived from they admitted there were less than 10 hunters total who answered the survey for 404 and that indeed the harvest estimates are very unreliable due to lack of response. The same is true for all zones, we really don't know what is being harvested.
The bios also acknowledged that according to their numbers the harvest goals in most of the southern zone(not sure about the SE) are not being achieved. Thus it was also questioned as to why they were considering further restrictions when the harvests are already below management goals. Basically, by the end of the meeting SRD acknowledged there are SERIOUS problems with the harvest stats, but it is the only thing they have to go on.
I think our biologists do a good job with what they have, but due to budget restraints they don't have much. There have been resolutions put forward to have mandatory completion of surveys by all hunters. This would help the bios tremendously. SABA has indicated they would be willing to put up some of their grant money to help with mandatory surveys and that if the harvest of archers does in fact exceed 15% - draw for archers. But as it stands now the numbers mean nothing and as a bowhunter myself, I am totally opposed to any draw changes until the real numbers are available. Proper numbers and data would help our game managers with all kinds of issues. It is time hunter surveys become MANDATORY FOR ALL HUNTERS!
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06-24-2012, 07:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
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I agree but a survey like that would b pricy.
Putting mule deer on draw for archers in certain zones is a great idea but it will only increase pressure in other zones so in the end they will all b on draw
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06-24-2012, 07:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoholic523
I agree but a survey like that would b pricy.
Putting mule deer on draw for archers in certain zones is a great idea but it will only increase pressure in other zones so in the end they will all b on draw
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A mandatory survey would not be any more pricey than whats in place now.
With our online system, create a rule that you cannot apply in the next year's draw or buy a Wildlife Certificate without completing the survey (either online or in person). This would cause hunters to complete surveys, a heck of a lot more than what happens now.
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06-24-2012, 08:17 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lethbridge
Posts: 749
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Great ideas...and thanks for your educational post Dr. Death. More information is always helpful...hunters should want to help manage game populations and therefore want to do game harvest surveys. But a mandatory harvest survey, for all game harvesting people, is a great idea.
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06-24-2012, 08:36 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: lacombe area
Posts: 1,881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackmastr
A mandatory survey would not be any more pricey than whats in place now.
With our online system, create a rule that you cannot apply in the next year's draw or buy a Wildlife Certificate without completing the survey (either online or in person). This would cause hunters to complete surveys, a heck of a lot more than what happens now.
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Excelent idea of if your surv is not in there is no hunting next fall. Its just that simple. Its fast to do, takes a couple min and it helps manage our animals which in turn provides huge info so that we dont go threw this again.
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06-24-2012, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: WMU 108
Posts: 6,354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.
Excelent idea of if your surv is not in there is no hunting next fall. Its just that simple. Its fast to do, takes a couple min and it helps manage our animals which in turn provides huge info so that we dont go threw this again.
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Too simple ... an idea like this would never work .. lol.
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06-24-2012, 08:53 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkoholic523
I agree but a survey like that would b pricy.
Putting mule deer on draw for archers in certain zones is a great idea but it will only increase pressure in other zones so in the end they will all b on draw
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Thats the plan
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