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03-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West O'5
...and I'm still waiting for anybody to cite the applicable section of either the Firearms Act and/or CC that proves post #74 is incorrect.
ie;you are shooting your pistol from your back deck at targets in your backyard,the very same targets that you regularly,legally and safely plink with your .22LR on any given day.
RCMP show up to investigate noise complaint from new city transplant yuppy neighbors.Whats the charge??
"Common knowledge" that pistols are restricted to approved range use only doesn't cut it.If it's against the law,then there must be a law,yes?
And fire away...
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Transporting and using prohibited firearms or restricted firearms
19 (1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms may be authorized to transport a particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm between two or more specified places for any good and sufficient reason, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,
(a) for use in targe t practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
(a.1)
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03-17-2017, 11:43 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
Transporting and using prohibited firearms or restricted firearms
19 (1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms may be authorized to transport a particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm between two or more specified places for any good and sufficient reason, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
(a.1)
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Again all that really says is that someone who is licensed to possess prohibited or restricted firearms MAY be authorized to TRANSPORT that firearm for any good & sufficient reason such as target shooting at a CFO approved range or shooting club.
It doesn't apply to what you do with your firearms in your house/dwelling.
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03-17-2017, 11:44 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Between Bodo and a hard place
Posts: 20,168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
When did the world stop shooting gophers out of truck windows ?
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Ironically about the same time pool noodles became common.
__________________
I'm not lying!!! You are just experiencing it differently.
It isn't a question of who will allow me, but who will stop me.. Ayn Rand
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03-17-2017, 12:00 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,939
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This is still going?
Here's what someone who still thinks there is a way to shoot a restricted weapon on you property should do.
Call the RCMP. Tell them where and when you will be doing so.
Report back in a year or two (when it has gone through the courts) and let us know if it worked out in your favor.
If it does, I and I can guarantee a whole slew of people will be in your debt
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03-17-2017, 12:06 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
This is still going?
Here's what someone who still thinks there is a way to shoot a restricted weapon on you property should do.
Call the RCMP. Tell them where and when you will be doing so.
Report back in a year or two (when it has gone through the courts) and let us know if it worked out in your favor.
If it does, I and I can guarantee a whole slew of people will be in your debt
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Well If they have to put their money where there mouth is, you should too. How about they do as you propose, but if they're found not guilty you have to sign over all your assets & property? To cover their court costs of course.
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03-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Claresholm, AB
Posts: 788
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I read through this whole thread. I can't believe some people are really that stupid.
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03-17-2017, 12:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 46,145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBen
I read through this whole thread. I can't believe some people are really that stupid.
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Not much surprises me any more, but some of the posters did.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-17-2017, 01:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1
Again all that really says is that someone who is licensed to possess prohibited or restricted firearms MAY be authorized to TRANSPORT that firearm for any good & sufficient reason such as target shooting at a CFO approved range or shooting club.
It doesn't apply to what you do with your firearms in your house/dwelling.
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I am pretty sure the bold lettering sums up not being a allowed to fire your pistol or restricted rifle in your back yard. That is unless it is
a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
This above is copied from
Transporting and USING prohibited firearms or restricted firearm.
I guess we need the definition of "using" to be further defined. As using and Transporting are not the same thing, yet under the same heading.
Hmm in wonder why that is.
It might be simply because inorder to use your restritced/prohibited firearm you need to be using as per above mentioned.
Unless your back yard is specified and or approved range I would think that shooting the firearm there would be agaisnt this. But interpretation is the key.
I can't wait for the rash of I got my firearms seized and licence suspended because I was shooting my pistol and AR of my back deck. The Police showed up and arrest me and seized all my firearms including hunting rifles.does anyone know how get around this so I can carry a firearm for huntig Season. Other wise my 10 years of priority for Jackolope will be wasted and I will miss this once ina life time hunt with my buddies.
Then a new new gun law will come out stating firearms must be encased on your property quadruple locked and have a tracking device attached. Every time.you take it out of its case and safe you must sign in on a secure website to repost it.
Cheers all.
End of the day do what you want.
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03-17-2017, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: On the border in Lloydminster
Posts: 8,458
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If you are not transporting or target practising your restricted are in storage. It doesn't matter if your cleaning them, admiring them or standing in front of a mirror wearing nothing but your shoulder holster practising your quick draw.
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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03-17-2017, 02:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 7,246
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This is getting as old as the 30 cal obselete thread. Everyone with an Rpal should know the only place they can legally shoot their restricteds is at a CFO approved range. End of story.
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03-17-2017, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58thecat
Southern Alberta drive by....pull up to gopher field, shoot, wait, shoot again and mosey on down the cow trail...great afternoon
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The best!!
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03-17-2017, 03:42 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
When did the world stop shooting gophers out of truck windows ?
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Well everyone stopped doing that, as it is illegal to shoot from a vehicle, don't you know. Nobody shoots gophers from the window of their 78 Riviera anymore. Honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01
Well our dear leaders believe it is unsafe to do so. Or something like that.
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And right they are! Kum Bi Yah! Someone might die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfrog
Ironically about the same time pool noodles became common.
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I'm taking a knee, and giving it some thought. It just isn't right shooting gophers from a vehicular contrivance. Amen.
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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03-17-2017, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokinyotes
This is getting as old as the 30 cal obselete thread. Everyone with an Rpal should know the only place they can legally shoot their restricteds is at a CFO approved range. End of story.
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Yup, it was answered in the first or second reply. Folks are trying desperately to make the law what they want it to be rather than what it is. Bottom line, unless you are going to a sanctioned range, your handgun is nothing but a paperweight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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03-17-2017, 06:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119
If you are not transporting or target practising your restricted are in storage. It doesn't matter if your cleaning them, admiring them or standing in front of a mirror wearing nothing but your shoulder holster practising your quick draw.
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If this is true, then we'd have to take them to the range to clean them. Hard to do when they're double locked, after all. And as a restricted they have to be either double locked or locked in a gun safe if they are in storage or being transported.
So, do you get inside your safe to clean them or what?
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03-17-2017, 06:21 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 126
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There has been a hole in every piece of legislation which was every drafted. All the boys are trying to do is find it. Some will say good luck while others will never give in!!!!!
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03-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
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03-17-2017, 06:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
Transporting and using prohibited firearms or restricted firearms
19 (1) An individual who holds a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms or restricted firearms may be authorized to transport a particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm between two or more specified places for any good and sufficient reason, including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
(a.1)
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Yep. This pretty much settles it. Transporting and USING. I knew it was not legal, but here is the specific reference.
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03-17-2017, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,443
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The resulting and intended possible criminality of poorly drafted legislation is no accident, it is a basic feature of the 'Police State'.
“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”
- Ayn Rand (in Atlas Shrugged)
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03-17-2017, 07:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bat119
If you are not transporting or target practising your restricted are in storage. It doesn't matter if your cleaning them, admiring them or standing in front of a mirror wearing nothing but your shoulder holster practising your quick draw.
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No not at all. A firearm can either be in use, in transport or in storage. If you are in your living room cleaning your pistol after a range trip, is it in storage (storage regs apply), transport (transport regs apply), or in use? It can only be in one of the three conditions at a time.
As for the rest of the thread, not one piece of legislation has been posted that discusses or legislates discharging of a restricted from a house/dweling. Does this loophole violate the spirit of the law? Of course! But there is no legislation that prohibits the discharge from a house/dwelling in a rural area.
You guys can keep calling me stupid all you like but when I first learned of this I was sceptical as well. That said I would not do it because a) I don't have the time nor $$$ to defend myself in court only to win and have legislation amended and b) I don't live in a rural area and c) if I'm wrong or my lawyer sucked I'd be FUBAR!
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03-17-2017, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1
No not at all. A firearm can either be in use, in transport or in storage. If you are in your living room cleaning your pistol after a range trip, is it in storage (storage regs apply), transport (transport regs apply), or in use? It can only be in one of the three conditions at a time.
As for the rest of the thread, not one piece of legislation has been posted that discusses or legislates discharging of a restricted from a house/dweling. Does this loophole violate the spirit of the law? Of course! But there is no legislation that prohibits the discharge from a house/dwelling in a rural area.
You guys can keep calling me stupid all you like but when I first learned of this I was sceptical as well. That said I would not do it because a) I don't have the time nor $$$ to defend myself in court only to win and have legislation amended and b) I don't live in a rural area and c) if I'm wrong or my lawyer sucked I'd be FUBAR!
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What does this mean?
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
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03-17-2017, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtodrick
This is still going?
Here's what someone who still thinks there is a way to shoot a restricted weapon on you property should do.
Call the RCMP. Tell them where and when you will be doing so.
Report back in a year or two (when it has gone through the courts) and let us know if it worked out in your favor.
If it does, I and I can guarantee a whole slew of people will be in your debt
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I'm curious, with this line of thinking, and the laws not having changed for decades, someone must have first hand experience and should have the information everyone is looking for somewhere on the internet as to what happened when they went to court. Doesn't anyone else find it weird that no one here knows about somebody that has shot on their own land and been charged? I know there was a local guy charged for shooting his restricted at home, but he fired it in the city, after 12am, and it went through 2 houses. It was not target practice.
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03-17-2017, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,910
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Copy and pasted.
In Canada, there is no ‘right to bear arms’. Canadian Criminal law has always treated gun and firearms offences very seriously. Due to recent changes to the Criminal Code, mandatory minimum jail sentences for many firearms offences have increased. If you are convicted of certain firearms offences, you could be facing a minimum three-year jail sentence, even as a first-time offender.
Gun and firearms provisions found in the Criminal Code can be complex and confusing, especially when intertwined with the Firearms Act and related regulations. Too easily, despite their best efforts, well-meaning gun owners can end up on the wrong side of a law or regulation.
__________________
As long as there is lead in the air there is always hope.
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03-17-2017, 11:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
What does this mean?
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29;
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That supplements Sec 19 (1) which says a person licensed to possess a prohibited or restricted firearm MAY be authorized to TRANSPORT for any good and sufficient reason such as
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29.
It's basically saying that you may be authorized to transport your restricted gun for any good and sufficient reason including target shooting at an approved range, or more plainly "we may let you transport your gun for any good reason, and target shooting is a valid reason".
We need CFO approval to obtain an RPAL, to buy restricted guns (transfer gets sent to CFO's office for approval), to transport restricted guns (ATT) and ranges require CFO approval.
Where this gets sticky is that your rural property where it's legal to discharge a firearm isn't a range (no CFO approval req'd), you've already been approved to possess restricted guns at your house/dwelling (CFO approval in the form of RPAL) gun is registered to you at that address (CFO approval in form of registration certificate). Don't need an ATT as you're not transporting it anywhere. You're at home. And there are no laws that I have seen that mention anything prohibiting loading and firing your restricted gun from your house/dwelling in a rural area.
You haven't violated transport laws, storage laws, range approval laws, possession laws, or local discharge laws. So what law has been violated? If there is no law being violated, or there is no law prohibiting an activity, then it is legal.
That said who the hell would want to shoot from inside their house out the window? The minute you left your house dwelling you'd be in a mountain of **** as then you would be violating transport laws (no ATT) and the thing would have to be unloaded, trigger locked & locked in a case.
Like I said it's an interesting thought experiment, but it's practically useless for 99% of us and our time would be better spent lobbying politicians to have the law changed to allow restricted guns to be used anywhere non-restricted guns can be.
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03-18-2017, 01:17 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: High River, AB
Posts: 10,788
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Too funny, or actually not so much as to someone is eager to post their stupidity or willingless to break firearm laws on a public forum.
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03-18-2017, 03:51 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1
That supplements Sec 19 (1) which says a person licensed to possess a prohibited or restricted firearm MAY be authorized to TRANSPORT for any good and sufficient reason such as
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29.
It's basically saying that you may be authorized to transport your restricted gun for any good and sufficient reason including target shooting at an approved range, or more plainly "we may let you transport your gun for any good reason, and target shooting is a valid reason".
We need CFO approval to obtain an RPAL, to buy restricted guns (transfer gets sent to CFO's office for approval), to transport restricted guns (ATT) and ranges require CFO approval.
Where this gets sticky is that your rural property where it's legal to discharge a firearm isn't a range (no CFO approval req'd), you've already been approved to possess restricted guns at your house/dwelling (CFO approval in the form of RPAL) gun is registered to you at that address (CFO approval in form of registration certificate). Don't need an ATT as you're not transporting it anywhere. You're at home. And there are no laws that I have seen that mention anything prohibiting loading and firing your restricted gun from your house/dwelling in a rural area.
You haven't violated transport laws, storage laws, range approval laws, possession laws, or local discharge laws. So what law has been violated? If there is no law being violated, or there is no law prohibiting an activity, then it is legal.
That said who the hell would want to shoot from inside their house out the window? The minute you left your house dwelling you'd be in a mountain of **** as then you would be violating transport laws (no ATT) and the thing would have to be unloaded, trigger locked & locked in a case.
Like I said it's an interesting thought experiment, but it's practically useless for 99% of us and our time would be better spent lobbying politicians to have the law changed to allow restricted guns to be used anywhere non-restricted guns can be.
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Transporting and using prohibited firearms or restricted firearms
The bold underline is included in the heading for section. That would be the key word for using your firearm.
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03-18-2017, 03:59 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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What some are doing is trying to read between the lines of the act.
As already stated by some one else above the laws are written to be vague to allow some leeway either way. But they do have some written that will always be interpreted by the court as the way it is written with no other interpretation.
The laws are also written with lumping in multiple sections together causing confusion. Many would either not notice or misread the section.
I posted one section where it says must be used at a range etc.
If that is wrong then shown the documention stating you are allowed to target shoot at your house with restritced firearms. I am.curious.
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03-18-2017, 04:19 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,392
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28 A chief firearms officer may approve the transfer to an individual of a restricted firearm or a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.1) (pre-December 1, 1998 handguns) only if the chief firearms officer is satisfied
(a) that the individual needs the restricted firearm or handgun
(i) to protect the life of that individual or of other individuals, or
(ii) for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation; or
(b) that the purpose for which the individual wishes to acquire the restricted firearm or handgun is
(i) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under conditions specified in an authorization to transport or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29, or
(ii) to form part of a gun collection of the individual, in the case of an individual who satisfies the criteria described in section 30.
1995, c. 39, s. 28
Another section in bold related to where you can legally shoot.
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03-18-2017, 09:00 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maidstone Sask
Posts: 2,799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttle_monkey1
That supplements Sec 19 (1) which says a person licensed to possess a prohibited or restricted firearm MAY be authorized to TRANSPORT for any good and sufficient reason such as
(a) for use in target practice, or a target shooting competition, under specified conditions or under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29.
It's basically saying that you may be authorized to transport your restricted gun for any good and sufficient reason including target shooting at an approved range, or more plainly "we may let you transport your gun for any good reason, and target shooting is a valid reason".
We need CFO approval to obtain an RPAL, to buy restricted guns (transfer gets sent to CFO's office for approval), to transport restricted guns (ATT) and ranges require CFO approval.
Where this gets sticky is that your rural property where it's legal to discharge a firearm isn't a range (no CFO approval req'd), you've already been approved to possess restricted guns at your house/dwelling (CFO approval in the form of RPAL) gun is registered to you at that address (CFO approval in form of registration certificate). Don't need an ATT as you're not transporting it anywhere. You're at home. And there are no laws that I have seen that mention anything prohibiting loading and firing your restricted gun from your house/dwelling in a rural area.
You haven't violated transport laws, storage laws, range approval laws, possession laws, or local discharge laws. So what law has been violated? If there is no law being violated, or there is no law prohibiting an activity, then it is legal.
That said who the hell would want to shoot from inside their house out the window? The minute you left your house dwelling you'd be in a mountain of **** as then you would be violating transport laws (no ATT) and the thing would have to be unloaded, trigger locked & locked in a case.
Like I said it's an interesting thought experiment, but it's practically useless for 99% of us and our time would be better spent lobbying politicians to have the law changed to allow restricted guns to be used anywhere non-restricted guns can be.
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I think you have a pretty good grip on this. I have read the law several times and came to the same conclusions. Who would want to shoot out of the window? You would have to be a bachelor to do it.
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03-18-2017, 09:36 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctd
What some are doing is trying to read between the lines of the act.
As already stated by some one else above the laws are written to be vague to allow some leeway either way. But they do have some written that will always be interpreted by the court as the way it is written with no other interpretation.
The laws are also written with lumping in multiple sections together causing confusion. Many would either not notice or misread the section.
I posted one section where it says must be used at a range etc.
If that is wrong then shown the documention stating you are allowed to target shoot at your house with restritced firearms. I am.curious.
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I can't show you documentation saying it's legal, thankfully that's not how the law works in Canada. The laws are written to govern, restrict or prohibit certain activities or objects. Take those e-cig things for example. When they first came out people were using them in bars because there were no laws against this. Legislation was soon passed to restrict their use so now you have to use them in the same manner as cigarettes.
I can't provide any legislation allowing this topic we've been going back and forth about. I also can't find any legislation prohibiting it either.
Some people believe that your house/dwelling includes your entire property but the definition of house/dwelling is clearly laid out in Section 2 of the criminal code. It does not include your entire property. There is also confusion about the language "AT the house/dwelling" some people are construing that to mean at the address, not IN the house/dwelling. In French it is DANS which is "IN" the house/dwelling. Food for thought. Anyways at the end of the day we are all subject to these poorly worded & illogical laws and we should be doing as much as we can to enact change and have these bad laws replaced with common sense legislation.
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03-18-2017, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitrdun
Too funny, or actually not so much as to someone is eager to post their stupidity or willingless to break firearm laws on a public forum.
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I'm glad I entertain you. I didn't know discussions about law & legal interpretations were verboten on Alberta Outdoorsmen. Maybe I'll stick to the "308 vs 30-06" threads.
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