A Poacher's Message

[Nait Hadya]

many years ago (no it's not a fairy tale) i had several instances where i felt obligated to either call a Fish & Wildlife or call the report a poacher hotline. in one of these cases, the parties involved were known to me and reporting it would bring obvious sanctions from the perp. well, i did what i thought was right and reported it. that lead to a chain of events that has yet to reach it's full length.

after the issue was reported and investigated,he was charged with a wildlife act violation,a fine. i'm not sure what all went on during the investigation but the outcome was a very small fine for leaving the animal to waste,sans paw. the area where this particular offence occured was frequented by both me and the perp and very few other hunters. later on i arrive at this same hunting location and see that he has been there already. i knew the type of tracks his truck,trailer and quad made so i was absolutely sure he was hunting in the area and was the only other hunter in there.

i made camp and followed his trail up the cutline. i didn't get very far when i came upon a whitetail buck, probably 150-155. i could see where he stood and shot from,saw where the deer was hit, ie: hair on the ground. it expired just a few feet away. and that was where it was still laying,a few feet away. it was a day or two old.

so,here is the question. was it left there to send a message to me and if so,what was the message? he had gutted the deer, flipped him over onto his underside and cut off his tail. in hind site, if he went to that length to send me a message,do you think he is going two likely attempt retaliation until he gets redemption for his fine? is there a rule of law that protects people from harassment in such cases or are certian people above the law (aborginal), here in alberta?

[tullfan]

If the tail is gone, and he has it, you might be worried about a certain tail being found on your property, with the fish cops not far behind. If that's his motive? If not I don't think there's much you can do except document future harassment and report it.
Tullfan

[ShawnM]

Maybe the message was that he is a pr*ck?

Wouldn't worry too much about it, unless he's made direct threats. Maybe just find another area to hunt.

[matathonman]

pick your battles

[H380]

Originally Posted by ShawnM

Maybe the message was that he is a pr*ck?

Wouldn't worry too much about it, unless he's made direct threats. Maybe just find another area to hunt.

Sounds like he has abad habit of wasting meat AND a short memory ..I'd maybe also look for a new area to hunt and watch over my shoulder when hunting in the old one ..

[yamaha 1]

I would have reported the SOB again and then I would find a new place to hunt. She's a big country out there lots of places to hunt.

[birchy]

Report him again.

[Okotokian]

well, you aren't really reporting HIM. You think it's him but you don't know. Just report the find and let the fish cops deal with it. Your report will insure you against getting charged if the tail somehow ends up at your place. Hope he wasn't in the bush taking picutres.

so,here is the question. was it left there to send a message to me and if so,what was the message? he had gutted the deer, flipped him over onto his underside and cut off his tail. in hind site, if he went to that length to send me a message,do you think he is going two likely attempt retaliation until he gets redemption for his fine? is there a rule of law that protects people from harassment in such cases

So you know its your ex- buddy that did it .

with no actual physical evidence or eyewitness, it is a non-issue!!! ends up, being a, waste of time.

A waste of time So if that’s the case why blame your ex- buddy if your not one hundred percent sure.

[moosemad]

Not sure why someone would take the time to gut a deer they were gonna leave after only taking the tail. Sounds like something else may have happened like the guy saw a bigger one while gutting the deer? Regardless it is all illegal but you could not prove anything without a witness or pics etc. Maybe have to let it slide.
Still wouldn't hurt to report your findings.

[just_dave]

I would speak to the officer that originally fined him. That way, it's on record.

[thefloormat]

i agree with reporting it regardless of how non issue it is. Then its on record, fish cops can come and take a look around, see the tracks and such. Should it happen again and there are similarities then they can start to narrow things down.

Watching that new fish and game show on tv, seems all the cases those guys talk about in the show are a long time coming, lots of investigating over a long period of time before they catch the criminals in the show.

[Rockymtnx]

Nait, you said that this happened many yeas ago. I am not sure where you are headed with this thread. What are you trying to get past us. I'm just not getting it..... Are asking what you should have done?

[PatF]

you did the right thing in reporting him in the first place, but, you should also report the deer that you found with the tail removed just to cover your butt. I'm also in a situation similar to yours, Friend of mine is poaching all season long, he will go in the country and shoot moose and call someone with a license to come and pick up the moose for the payment of $100 or one of the quarters, I know he's doing it for people with a license but it's still poaching, he shoots between 20-30 or more moose every season and I don't know what to do, I feel it's my responsibility to report this but on the other hand he's a good friend. What should I do, I think I'm going to end up reporting this because, well Friend or not this type of activity just makes me so dam angry and it has to stop.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by PatF

you did the right thing in reporting him in the first place, but, you should also report the deer that you found with the tail removed just to cover your butt. I'm also in a situation similar to yours, Friend of mine is poaching all season long, he will go in the country and shoot moose and call someone with a license to come and pick up the moose for the payment of $100 or one of the quarters, I know he's doing it for people with a license but it's still poaching, he shoots between 20-30 or more moose every season and I don't know what to do, I feel it's my responsibility to report this but on the other hand he's a good friend. What should I do, I think I'm going to end up reporting this because, well Friend or not this type of activity just makes me so dam angry and it has to stop.

How can you claim this guy as your "good friend"? Wow. First off you should be much more cautious in who you hang out with, and second, I have to question why you would hang out with this guy in the first place?

Would you hang out with a drug dealer? With a known bank robber? With a convicted sex offender? What is the difference? This guy is breaking the law - and not some victimless paper crime, he is wholesale killing OUR wildlife for cash in his pocket - he is STEALING FROM YOU AND ME. Drop the dime (or the hammer) on this POS.

[PatF]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

How can you claim this guy as your "good friend"? Wow. First off you should be much more cautious in who you hang out with, and second, I have to question why you would hang out with this guy in the first place?

Would you hang out with a drug dealer? With a known bank robber? With a convicted sex offender? What is the difference? This guy is breaking the law - and not some victimless paper crime, he is wholesale killing OUR wildlife for cash in his pocket - he is STEALING FROM YOU AND ME. Drop the dime (or the hammer) on this POS.

well I don't hang out with him anymore but he has always been a good friend, other then this he is a good guy but I know that don't excuse what he's doing I know that but even though I hate what he's doing I am finding it so hard to do what I know I have got to do and will do. You can't tell me that you have never been put into an awkward situation by a friend where you didn't know what to do. I have confronted him about what he's doing but it made no difference he still continues, that's a main reason we don't hang out anymore but I do still consider him a friend and maybe always will. I know he's been reported already but for some reason nothing has been done. And yes I do know he's sealing from me and everyone else that hunts and I hate that, in-fact I hate the fact that anybody does this type of thing not just him but anyone, just like I hate it when people trophy hunt, as far as I'm concerned that should also be outlawed, people who do this are no better then my friend in my book, to shoot anything to get a head to hang on the wall and leave everything else where it was shot is a waste of a life (if your not going to eat it don't kill it), that's not to say that sometimes this has to be done to help farmers or people who's lives or livelihood is being put in jeopardy by an animal, if this is the case then yes the animal should be put down. I watch a TV channel called Wild TV, it's a hunting and fishing channel, one example of this is a guy, Tom Miranda from the US, (not sure of the spelling) but every one of his shows that I've seen is about so called "hunting" in Africa, this guy shoots Elephant, Rhino, Lion you name it and if you can drive up to it and touch it on the nose with a stick he kills it and then justifies it by giving lessons about how he just did a wonderful thing for that species WHAT!!!!! come-on these people aren't hunters their murders just like my buddy even if it is legal. Look what I'm saying is I know I have to do what's right and try to do my part and stop this and I will do what's right but what I'm saying is because of our past I just find it very hard to do and also there's his family, it's not an easy thing to do , not for me anyway.

(IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT DON'T KILL IT)

WOW I didn’t think this thread would have gotten this far

[Pudelpointer]

PatF, glad you realize what a thief this guy is. If you confronted him and he didn't stop, then he is not your friend.

As for your "trophy hunter" and hunting Africa comments, I would like to just say that things are not what you assume. Save for some professional killers like you mention on WildTV, most "trophy hunters" do not leave the animals they kill to rot - most of them are very thankful for the meat as well (yes there are some douche bags out there, but they are not hunters, just scum). Many people become "trophy hunters" because they are looking for a challenge (a personal challenge at that). For some, shooting "a buck" is not a challenge at all.

If you know, really know, that you can kill an animal on a given day - hands down easy - is there a challenge in that? For some, there is not - then it is just killing. When killing an animal becomes that easy for someone they often make things more challenging for themselves; some use older rifles with open sights or muzzle loaders, others pick up a bow, and some others decide that they will challenge themselves by only taking a certain size animal, or even a specific single animal, or take nothing at all.

I hunted the same Blacktail buck for 3 years, refusing to shoot any of the other 5 bucks sharing the same slash with him. I shot other deer in other places, but in that one spot I would not kill any of the younger bucks that I often watched for hours while waiting for that one. Never did kill that deer - he was too smart for me.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by PatF

well I don't hang out with him anymore but he has always been a good friend, other then this he is a good guy but I know that don't excuse what he's doing I know that but even though I hate what he's doing I am finding it so hard to do what I know I have got to do and will do. You can't tell me that you have never been put into an awkward situation by a friend where you didn't know what to do. I have confronted him about what he's doing but it made no difference he still continues, that's a main reason we don't hang out anymore but I do still consider him a friend and maybe always will. I know he's been reported already but for some reason nothing has been done. And yes I do know he's sealing from me and everyone else that hunts and I hate that, in-fact I hate the fact that anybody does this type of thing not just him but anyone, just like I hate it when people trophy hunt, as far as I'm concerned that should also be outlawed, people who do this are no better then my friend in my book, to shoot anything to get a head to hang on the wall and leave everything else where it was shot is a waste of a life (if your not going to eat it don't kill it), that's not to say that sometimes this has to be done to help farmers or people who's lives or livelihood is being put in jeopardy by an animal, if this is the case then yes the animal should be put down. I watch a TV channel called Wild TV, it's a hunting and fishing channel, one example of this is a guy, Tom Miranda from the US, (not sure of the spelling) but every one of his shows that I've seen is about so called "hunting" in Africa, this guy shoots Elephant, Rhino, Lion you name it and if you can drive up to it and touch it on the nose with a stick he kills it and then justifies it by giving lessons about how he just did a wonderful thing for that species WHAT!!!!! come-on these people aren't hunters their murders just like my buddy even if it is legal. Look what I'm saying is I know I have to do what's right and try to do my part and stop this and I will do what's right but what I'm saying is because of our past I just find it very hard to do and also there's his family, it's not an easy thing to do , not for me anyway.

(IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT DON'T KILL IT)

OMG...if you have any oxygen left, i hope you are ok.

EDIT: I have to re-read this a couple more times I think...

[young gunz]

wow some people

[honda450]

[PatF]

Originally Posted by young gunz

wow some people

A weak mind does not accumulate force enough to hurt itself; stupidity often saves a man from going mad.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by PatF

you did the right thing in reporting him in the first place, but, you should also report the deer that you found with the tail removed just to cover your butt. I'm also in a situation similar to yours, Friend of mine is poaching all season long, he will go in the country and shoot moose and call someone with a license to come and pick up the moose for the payment of $100 or one of the quarters, I know he's doing it for people with a license but it's still poaching, he shoots between 20-30 or more moose every season and I don't know what to do, I feel it's my responsibility to report this but on the other hand he's a good friend. What should I do, I think I'm going to end up reporting this because, well Friend or not this type of activity just makes me so dam angry and it has to stop.

Shoots 20 or 30 moose, and sells meat ...and you dont know what to do??

Thinking of reporting this?? Go troll somewhere else.

[PatF]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Shoots 20 or 30 moose, and sells meat ...and you dont know what to do??

Thinking of reporting this?? Go troll somewhere else.

listen hayseed, yes I am thinking of reporting this, and like I said if you can understand what you read I also said I am going to report this, and if you understand what you read I said he does this during open season so he's no going to get caught if he's not doing it, so I'll put it simply so you can understand it, it's pointless to report it now just like wild life told me this morning but they do have his name, and want me to call back next season, which I will, so did you get that, who are you to tell anyone to go somewhere else, I have as much right to voice my opinion and look for advice here as you do. I'm willing to bet you know guys that poach, I wonder if you've reported them. As for going somewhere else, I think I'll stay right here if you like though you can move on. I noticed that you only post a sentence at a time, can yo only think that far ahead. I think if your not able to say something with the least little bit of intelligence then you shouldn't say anything at all. I can see why you had to read my post a couple more times. Wow grade four must have took a looooooong time.

(Thank god your a country boy, well so am I, and thank God not all country boys are dumb)

[PatF]

I called the Dept of Fish and Wildlife this morning and just like I thought they do have his name a number of times, I was told that since he's only doing this during moose season it's pointless to do anything now, I really think it must be pointless for them any time of year because he don't hide what he's doing. I don't know why if they have his name so often he hasn't been caught. He leaves his yard almost every morning with his rifle on his quad without a big game license and they can't catch him (or don't try I think is more like it) all they have to do is park just a little ways away from his house and when he leaves they've got him with an high powered rifle and no license, that should give them enough for a search warrant and they have him for sure then, but it seemed like they didn't want to hear that, so what's the point when You have people who don't want to do their job, what's the point. Oh well I did my part and I guess the saga continues.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by PatF

I called the Dept of Fish and Wildlife this morning and just like I thought they do have his name a number of times, I was told that since he's only doing this during moose season it's pointless to do anything now, I really think it must be pointless for them any time of year because he don't hide what he's doing. I don't know why if they have his name so often he hasn't been caught. He leaves his yard almost every morning with his rifle on his quad without a big game license and they can't catch him (or don't try I think is more like it) all they have to do is park just a little ways away from his house and when he leaves they've got him with an high powered rifle and no license, that should give them enough for a search warrant and they have him for sure then, but it seemed like they didn't want to hear that, so what's the point when You have people who don't want to do their job, what's the point. Oh well I did my part and I guess the saga continues.

Absolutly nothing illegal with leaving your house with a high power rifle, and no licence. If it was everybody on the hunting forum would have been breaking the law at one point or another. No reasonable cause for a search warrant here.....