Homestead public range - WOW

[gitrdun]

I know it's been said before. So having started my day early of report writing, invoicing, etc. I decided to shut the computer down around 2:00pm, grab my dog and go for a drive to the range, see for myself what this talk is all about. I can attest that this was my first visit and definitely my last. Given no other choices, I'd rather shoot at the Okotoks dump than at this dump. Shameful to see such lack of respect for the environment in such a potentially beautiful setting. The garbage lines the ditches along the access road. The view from the benches towards the berms is unbelievable. Quite surprised this place hasn't been shut down. So fortunate to have my own 100 yard range out of my back door and out beyond 1000 a mere 10 minutes away on my neighbor's land.

[Skytop B]

Have never been there but met a shooter from Airdrie at RRGC yesterday telling us about it. He couldn't stop praising Eugene about how fantastic the range is, he is even going to drive down next week to volunteer his time to help out with range improvements. I think our club could use a few more volunteers next week.

[Cb.homer]

You should go on a weekend what a treat. People shooting in the ditches anywhere they can fit. Last time I was there 2 knot heads firing pistols into a rock pile from the road. The place is a joke. I've felt safer in combat. I wonder how people of this mentality ever got a PAL. I'm surprised no ones been shot out there.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by Cb.homer

You should go on a weekend what a treat. People shooting in the ditches anywhere they can fit. Last time I was there 2 knot heads firing pistols into a rock pile from the road. The place is a joke. I've felt safer in combat. I wonder how people of this mentality ever got a PAL. I'm surprised no ones been shot out there.

Actually, someone has been shot out there a few years ago. Some bozo shot himself in the leg with a rifle.... while on the shotgun range.

[260 Rem]

There has been so much posted about the conditions described above, for such a long time...that it is safe to assume the situation is condoned by both Range Operators and the CFO.

[gitrdun]

Range operators? there surely is no such thing there. Even if it wasn't a rifle range, it hurts my innards to see such disregards for our outdoors. I've travelled a few places in the world, Europe lived there for 10 years, central America, south Pacific, middle East, Yukon and Alaska. I can tell you that we are so fortunate to live in the most beautiful country in the world coast to coast. The lack of disrespect is truly shameful. It wouldn't bother me a microsecond if that dump faced closure. It truly is a black eye to the shooting community. All that a greeny tree hugger has to do for efforts to gather evidence to shut us down is take a trip out there with a camera. Jeez, having said that, I suppose that I could be labelled a greeny tree hugger...

[Speckle55]

if every member spent 5 minutes after shooting cleaning up

there would not be any problem

Food for Thought

David

[Sakoman]

It's my only option and I go a few times a year.meverytime I collect garbage and clean up. Amazing how others watch and never pic up a thing..... Always amazed why people can't pick up after themselves, it is a shame. I go at first light to try and keep away from the crowds and idiots!

[Ryan.M.Anderson]

I think it might be time for some people to chill out a bit...

Everyone should remember this is just an Internet forum.

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by Cb.homer

... Last time I was there 2 knot heads firing pistols into a rock pile from the road...

The public range does not allow people to bring restricted guns....

[260 Rem]

The Alberta Provincial Rifle Association website says they own and maintain the "public" range. I suppose if enough of their members were concerned, the situation would change. One would assume the APRA must feel some immunity in terms of liability?

[gopher]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

The Alberta Provincial Rifle Association website says they own and maintain the "public" range. I suppose if enough of their members were concerned, the situation would change. One would assume the APRA must feel some immunity in terms of liability?

Washroom cleaning was some what of a lucrative business for me turns out you can charge a lot. All that toilet scrubbing paid for a lot of shooting met some nice folks along the way. Most would say the old boys club...

One range has to be there for the other there's a lot to it.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

The Alberta Provincial Rifle Association website says they own and maintain the "public" range. I suppose if enough of their members were concerned, the situation would change. One would assume the APRA must feel some immunity in terms of liability?

Every year members go out and clean that sty. Or should I say stys since the shottie range gets cleaned as well.

[agentsmith]

Originally Posted by Quinn

The public range does not allow people to bring restricted guns....

Technically true, but since there's never anyone there to enforce any rules or laws, it's really a free-for-all.

Yes, the APRA "operates" the public range, but in a very hands-off fashion. My understanding is it really only exists because that was the deal with the gov't in exchange for them having a members-only range on public land.

I'd suggest maybe the RCMP should start hanging around, but someone on here said they claim it's the Parks dept's problem. So it basically seems like everyone is well aware of the problem, but they're all just going to pass the buck until there's a serious incident... then the solution will presumably be to just shut it down.

That being said, I've yet to see any real safety issues on the range itself in the 3 times I've been there. So if you can get past the garbage and the yahoos shooting off-site, it's usable.

[michaelmicallef]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

Technically true, but since there's never anyone there to enforce any rules or laws, it's really a free-for-all.

Yes, the APRA "operates" the public range, but in a very hands-off fashion. My understanding is it really only exists because that was the deal with the gov't in exchange for them having a members-only range on public land.

I'd suggest maybe the RCMP should start hanging around, but someone on here said they claim it's the Parks dept's problem. So it basically seems like everyone is well aware of the problem, but they're all just going to pass the buck until there's a serious incident... then the solution will presumably be to just shut it down.

That being said, I've yet to see any real safety issues on the range itself in the 3 times I've been there. So if you can get past the garbage and the yahoos shooting off-site, it's usable.

Just to comment on the police. They have no problem handing someone a speeding ticket in the park. Seems like they don't want to do anything because its beneath them. I am really surprised they haven't close it down but why punish the people that use the area responsibly. I wonder what percentage of people that use that range are causing all the problems? I've been out there at least a dozen times over the years and can't say I saw anyone being irresponsible. I have been on crown land and wanted to bust someone's rifle over there head though.

[sillyak]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

Technically true, but since there's never anyone there to enforce any rules or laws, it's really a free-for-all.

Yes, the APRA "operates" the public range, but in a very hands-off fashion. My understanding is it really only exists because that was the deal with the gov't in exchange for them having a members-only range on public land.

I'd suggest maybe the RCMP should start hanging around, but someone on here said they claim it's the Parks dept's problem. So it basically seems like everyone is well aware of the problem, but they're all just going to pass the buck until there's a serious incident... then the solution will presumably be to just shut it down.

That being said, I've yet to see any real safety issues on the range itself in the 3 times I've been there. So if you can get past the garbage and the yahoos shooting off-site, it's usable.

May 2011 my wife and I were witness to a man who shot himself in the leg with a 12 gauge on the shotgun range. We gave first aid and when the authorities came I let them in to the upper range where STARS landed and took him out.

That range is a gong show. I haven't used the public range since 2010 and haven't been back to any range there since the CSRA debacle in late 2011.

Real enforcement is need along that whole road. Problem is if enforcement is too tough or fees come into play then people will go and make a mess somewhere else on crown land.

Shooters can be a messy lot. I'd say 99% are safe, but a full 1/3 are complete slobs which drives me crazy.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by Quinn

The public range does not allow people to bring restricted guns....

Guess that law / rule isn't working too well.

[xterratitan]

-1

[gramps73]

This range has been in the same state for years now,
as far as cleaning
The members do a great job of site clean up...but with in 2 days of the clean up it looks just as bad...
Last year 2 40 yard bins were hauled out of that range and guess what with in a week it was back to same old place...
Simple pack out what you pack in.....

[Bowie]

Why don't we try and get a bunch of members of AO to meet up there one sat or Sunday and spend 4-5 hrs cleaning it up. Make a tailgate bbq out of it.
So much complaining and no action taken.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Why don't we try and get a bunch of members of AO to meet up there one sat or Sunday and spend 4-5 hrs cleaning it up. Make a tailgate bbq out of it.
So much complaining and no action taken.

That has been done. Only time I was at the range my wife and I went out and spent a day. Met some nice people, had a burger and coke, cleaned and raked the entire shotgun range (not by ourselves). The place really was a mess. Looked good when we left, but someone posted some pics of it a couple weeks later and it was back to normal. Never went back!

[DiabeticKripple]

everytime i go out in that area, someone always has a handgun. everytime.

[mikhughe]

I use their shotgun range semi-frequently. When the weather gets nice probably about once every two weeks. Luckily m work schedule gets me out there on off times, like a Monday morning at dawn. And usually I'm alone out there.
I've never seen a handgun before at either the rifle or shotgun range but I think I seen a restricted weapon once. I'll admit I don't know the first thing about "tactical" firearms or any of the more aggressive looking weapons out there but a fella showed up with what I assumed was an automatic shotgun, with a drum magazine on it. Rate of fire was impressive and he turned a whole herd of watermelons into nothing in under 30 seconds. And that's about as long as he stayed out, did that and left.

[260 Rem]

There is no reason to believe that anything will change at the "public" range unless APRA takes action to direct such change. The RCMP do not provide "security" or "supervision" inside any privately owned facility, be it a gun range or bar. I don't think there are any laws suggesting that private property cannot be littered, no law regarding the safe handling of firearms on private property. It follows that as long as there are no bullets or litter encroaching on neighboring properties, operations are at the pleasure of the owner.

[Pasc43]

Obviously people don't want to give away their prime shooting locations, but where would one find good crown land to practice on?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

There is no reason to believe that anything will change at the "public" range unless APRA takes action to direct such change. The RCMP do not provide "security" or "supervision" inside any privately owned facility, be it a gun range or bar. I don't think there are any laws suggesting that private property cannot be littered, no law regarding the safe handling of firearms on private property. It follows that as long as there are no bullets or litter encroaching on neighboring properties, operations are at the pleasure of the owner.

I don't think you understand the whole situation. Apra members do not use the public range, they shot at the other ranges that APRA has set up for their members. In order to get their shooting center they had to agree to provide an area for the non paying non contributing general public to use for free. They are not allowed to charge a fee or membership to use this range, All the APRA membership money collected goes to support their first class tidy ranges for their paying members. How would you feel if Sherwood park was forced to provide an unmonitored range on their property to the general public in unlimited numbers to use for free whenever they want. As part of the deal you are not allowed to limit the number of shooters or the hours they shoot or charge a penny for use of the range. If they kept this public range up to the standards of the members ranges they would loose a lot of members since they could shoot for free on the public range your club is now forced to provide. Do you think your club would have enough members that would volunteer to man, monitor and clean up the mess a gongshow like that would create seven days a week from sun up to sun down.

I think the answer to keeping the public range clean and safe is to charge the public a fee for use that would support full time range officers, garbage removal and pay to cover the costs for maintenance. The agreement must change and allow APRA to charge $$. Non monitored free public ranges are generally a disaster

[qwert]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

There is no reason to believe that anything will change at the "public" range unless APRA takes action to direct such change. The RCMP do not provide "security" or "supervision" inside any privately owned facility, be it a gun range or bar. I don't think there are any laws suggesting that private property cannot be littered, no law regarding the safe handling of firearms on private property. It follows that as long as there are no bullets or litter encroaching on neighboring properties, operations are at the pleasure of the owner.

AFAIK, the entire range complex is leased from the Province and is not privately owned. AFAIK, maintaining a 'public' range was/is a condition that allowed the APRA to obtain their lease on the Provincial land. I have not read the lease and cannot speculate on the specific terms or of whether the APRA is fulfilling its obligations. I would appreciate a link to the lease, which IMHO should be a public document. The Province should be ensuring that the terms of the lease and its obligations are being fulfilled. I suspect that the conditions at the 'public' range do not constitute a complete 'failure to fulfill' by the APRA, this is possibly due to a lack of specific standards in the lease documentation.

AFAIK, the members of the private clubs do conduct periodic work bees to minimally maintain the 'public' range.

IMHE, the members of the private clubs have nothing but disdain for the 'unwashed masses' down on the 'public' range and no interest in its proper operation.

The public range is a good example of Gulianne's 'NY broken windows and graffiti theory', and disrespect does seem to breed more disrespect. There is no excuse for the garbage, and a 'paper targets only' rule would stop a lot of the problems. IMHO, the basic general wilderness rule of 'pack it in then pack it out and leave only foot prints', should be practiced by everyone everywhere.

Good Luck, YMMV

[Bowie]

Bring the kids too. It would be a good lesson for them to learn too.

[whiteout]

Why not just call the RCMP with firearms complaints when people are acting like fools. I bet if the RCMP, CFO and NWEST showed up, people would either smarten up or lose their toys and get charged.

[260 Rem]

Ranges are "private" operations and the police do not enforce their rules. So, someone brings a computer monitor to use as a target...maybe contrary to range rules, but not a legal issue. Someone is careless with muzzle control ...contrary to range rules, probably.. against the law ...guess you could request charges be brought ...would have to go to court --- not likely many would go that route.