Jasper National Park hunting agreement

[huntingfamily]

https://cfjctoday.com/2023/10/17/sim...nal-park-land/

[~altiplano~]

Can't carry a firearm to assert your right of self preservation/defence from wildlife... No problem if you're an Indian out shooting stuff though.

[elkhunter11]

They should be forced to comply with the firearms prohibitions within the park. And they could do so by using archery gear.

[DirtShooter]

Make way for traditional alloy and carbon fiber hunting rifles.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They should be forced to comply with the firearms prohibitions within the park. And they could do so by using archery gear.

So carrying of firearms is now legal in the park? Precedent has been set after all

[Ackleyman]

This is rotten to the core and the over entitlement thing has to stop. Not about badly needed meat , it's a sugar coated cultural ceremony for a cherry picking Trophy hunt. Permitting firearms in a National Park ? Whoever is behind the switch approving this needs a good boot in the jewels.

[JeanCretien]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They should be forced to comply with the firearms prohibitions within the park. And they could do so by using archery gear.

Totally


And to FN have traditionally hunted full curl rams for hundreds of thousands of years.

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[Mountain Guy]

Round 2.
This happening a few years ago as well, alhough back then I believe it was only the Simpcw's.
Parks did their absolute best at that time to keep it hush hush. There were no news releases that I was aware of that indicated a hunt was going to happen in a National Park.
I heard from a reliable source about it and I was also told by my manager that Parks Canada had contacted my employer to notify that we were to stay away from an area within the Park..No reason givin..
Anyway, the hunt happened.
Bragging Pic's found the internet. I give them credit , they harvested some beautiful animals. That WT buck was the biggest I've seen here in Jasper. The Ram was huge as was the giant bull elk.
I'd say the team they sent in knew what they were doing based on the rifle I seen in the pic and the Sitka outfits.
From a ''harvesting for the meat'' perspective I think they could have did a better job.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Round 2.
This happening a few years ago as well, alhough back then I believe it was only the Simpcw's.
Parks did their absolute best at that time to keep it hush hush. There were no news releases that I was aware of that indicated a hunt was going to happen in a National Park.
I heard from a reliable source about it and I was also told by my manager that Parks Canada had contacted my employer to notify that we were to stay away from an area within the Park..No reason givin..
Anyway, the hunt happened.
Bragging Pic's found the internet. I give them credit , they harvested some beautiful animals. That WT buck was the biggest I've seen here in Jasper. The Ram was huge as was the giant bull elk.
I'd say the team they sent in knew what they were doing based on the rifle I seen in the pic and the Sitka outfits.
From a ''harvesting for the meat'' perspective I think they could have did a better job.

So basically trophy hunting, using the most modern equipment? So much for tradition or subsistence.

I can only wonder which collectors purchased the antlers/horns, and how much profit they brought for the shooters?

[edmsmith]

Their shutting parts of the park down for 3 weeks. That's super nice of them. Hah...

Last time they harvested animals they had a strict quota they had to stick to. I don't see any mention of specific quotas/restrictions this time.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So basically trophy hunting, using the most modern equipment? So much for tradition or subsistence.

I can only wonder which collectors purchased the antlers/horns, and how much profit they brought for the shooters?

Ya how I seen it... under the guise of a traditional hunt to educate the youth and feed the elders kinda thing.
The hunt occurred in an area of the park that is accessed on all sides by the Celestine Lk road.. The road basically cuts thru the centre of the area. The road was closed to the public for that time period.. Not sure , think it was a week or 10 days.
I have my thoughts on the hunting method that was utilized. I hope I'm wrong , but I would question how traditional this really was.

As mentioned, when these agreements come into play , and certain groups are given exclusive rights to hunt where nobody else can , then they should be made to utilize traditional methods only. Especially hunting animals that have never been hunted.. AND ,especially when words like ''traditional'' are included in the rationale for allowing these slippery slope hunts..

[dave99]

I will second what MG has said- I viewed pictures of the elk, sheep and whitetail on the FN hunter’s public FB page shortly after the hunt.

One of the rams was tremendous and looked to be in his 13th year from the annuli. Another was 10+. The elk were par-for-the-course Jasper herd bulls around the 340” range.

The whitetail really surprised me as it was far and away bigger than any I’ve seen around here.

I contacted the Parks Canada communications officer to inquire about the hunt, shortly after seeing the pictures and to voice my concern that a meat/ceremonial hunt was being potentially used as a trophy/bragging hunt (as much as I hate these terms), as evidenced by the grip and grin pictures.

I was bluntly told that my inquiry was unwelcome.

For the record, I do support a very limited FN hunt in Jasper Park. I simply ask that they harvest for meat, medicine and ceremony. Not for horns and antlers as evidenced by the last hunt.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Round 2.
This happening a few years ago as well, alhough back then I believe it was only the Simpcw's.
Parks did their absolute best at that time to keep it hush hush. There were no news releases that I was aware of that indicated a hunt was going to happen in a National Park.
I heard from a reliable source about it and I was also told by my manager that Parks Canada had contacted my employer to notify that we were to stay away from an area within the Park..No reason givin..
Anyway, the hunt happened.
Bragging Pic's found the internet. I give them credit , they harvested some beautiful animals. That WT buck was the biggest I've seen here in Jasper. The Ram was huge as was the giant bull elk.
I'd say the team they sent in knew what they were doing based on the rifle I seen in the pic and the Sitka outfits.
From a ''harvesting for the meat'' perspective I think they could have did a better job.

[Battle Rat]

After the couple that were ki,ledby a grizzly in Banff I would bet there will be a few people packing a gun in the parks.
I wouldn't blame them.
The chance of getting a fine is low and a small price to pay if it saves your life.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Battle Rat

After the couple that were ki,ledby a grizzly in Banff I would bet there will be a few people packing a gun in the parks.
I wouldn't blame them.
The chance of getting a fine is low and a small price to pay if it saves your life.

That couple might be alive if they had been allowed to possess a firearm in the park. What the government is telling us, is that it's okay for certain groups to have a firearm to hunt in the park, but not okay for other people to protect human life in the park.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by dave99

I will second what MG has said- I viewed pictures of the elk, sheep and whitetail on the FN hunter’s public FB page shortly after the hunt.

One of the rams was tremendous and looked to be in his 13th year from the annuli. Another was 10+. The elk were par-for-the-course Jasper herd bulls around the 340” range.

The whitetail really surprised me as it was far and away bigger than any I’ve seen around here.

I contacted the Parks Canada communications officer to inquire about the hunt, shortly after seeing the pictures and to voice my concern that a meat/ceremonial hunt was being potentially used as a trophy/bragging hunt (as much as I hate these terms), as evidenced by the grip and grin pictures.

I was bluntly told that my inquiry was unwelcome.

For the record, I do support a very limited FN hunt in Jasper Park. I simply ask that they harvest for meat, medicine and ceremony. Not for horns and antlers as evidenced by the last hunt.

Ya Dave those pic's didn't last long before they were pulled hey? A day or 2 then they vanished.
Obviously upper management got wind quick and vaporized them.
I guess we don't see the spoils of the hunt this time round.

[Ronji]

I was very vocal to Parks Canada the last time this occurred.

At the time the representative said to me that it was a traditional hunt, and not a trophy hunt (which is what occurred)

I was told that traditional hunt meant not using quads, rifles etc.

When I spoke to parks Canada after the hunt about the non traditional methods of hunting that were used, and about the bragging about the trophies that occurred, I was basically told by Parks Canada to go pound sand and mind my own business.

[58thecat]

Just this week, which one to put a tag on?


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[Howard Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Just this week, which one to put a tag on?


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>>
Slow clap 58, slow clap. Nail, meet head of hammer.

[GMX]

Simple solution make them cut one horn in half at the kill site like up north. Sustenance hunting isn’t collecting racks.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by GMX

Simple solution make them cut one horn in half at the kill site like up north. Sustenance hunting isn’t collecting racks.

They cut the skull plate in half in Alaska.
What is the point of that (aside from entering into the book, which anyone I know doesn't do anyways)?

Forfeit the head and antlers on any animal killed under the guise of subsistence hunting!! How many "hunters" would show up for the hunt in Jasper if that were the case? I'd put a lot of money on one

On a side note, nice to hear firearms can now be carried in a national park

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

They cut the skull plate in half in Alaska.
What is the point of that (aside from entering into the book, which anyone I know doesn't do anyways)?

Forfeit the head and antlers on any animal killed under the guise of subsistence hunting!! How many "hunters" would show up for the hunt in Jasper if that were the case? I'd put a lot of money on one

On a side note, nice to hear firearms can now be carried in a national park

This!🍻🍻

[GMX]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

They cut the skull plate in half in Alaska.
What is the point of that (aside from entering into the book, which anyone I know doesn't do anyways)?

Forfeit the head and antlers on any animal killed under the guise of subsistence hunting!! How many "hunters" would show up for the hunt in Jasper if that were the case? I'd put a lot of money on one

On a side note, nice to hear firearms can now be carried in a national park

That would work as well but we all know our government is completely incompetent when it comes to fish and game management. Pretty much a moot point.

[Sirgallagher]

That's pretty rough. How'd you hear about that ?

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[Lunkerhunter]

Where were you able to find these pics? Would you mind posting them or a link?

It’s like a train wreck, I just can’t look the other way…


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[burbotman]

I get sick when I hear this called a hunt. Call it what it is a cull. There is a reason the area is closed and it is not because of safety. Public disgust at the shooting of tame animals would be huge

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by outofbounds

"The first thing we did [when parks were created] was remove Indigenous people from the landscape. We totally took that thinking out of our space."

"We're just doing what we were stopped from doing," said Wesley. "Now we're back."

A couple of quotes taken from one of the news releases on the JNP, Parks Canada agreement, 1 from Parks Canada and 1 from a participating nation leader.

Creation of Jasper Forest Reserve
When Jasper Park Forest Reserve was created in 1907, Indigenous Peoples were forcibly removed and excluded from this part of their Traditional Territories. The land was used for European settler recreation and economic prosperity.

The two nations involved in the hunt, under agreement with Parks Canada are once again hunting territory and lands that they had hunted prior to establishment of the Park in 1907.
Where both nations, amongst other groups, were forcibly removed.

In the time period of Park establishment, firearms had been used including lever action repeaters, this does not say other methods or choice of weapons or implements were not used in hunts or trapping activities of the time period of Park establishment or the years leading into. Firearms had been available via trade since the early 1700's at forts and along the trade routes.

It has been voiced that all firearms use and hunting should not be allowed in JNP, yet other National Parks, under Parks Canada authority are or have issued permits to hunt within National Parks in parallel efforts with provincial licensing authorities for game, specifically ungulate management. Both by licensed and non-licensed hunters.

The matter remains a topic of contention as to some, it is viewed as an opportunity for a select group to posess firearms and hunt in National Parks.
Also the concern of the First Nations who have been quoted to be aiming to take six deer, four elk and two sheep from within the park for a community feast, being a front for a Trophy opportunity on what was identified as a tame population.

Did the allocations of licenses and Parks permits to hunt in National Parks in other jurisdictions not offer the same limited access and possible Trophy opportunity for those National Park ungulate populations?

Parks Canada has identified that they will now include Indigenous groups in future management matters of the Park, what this looks like is yet to be finalized.

What the future will hold is unknown, with regard to future National Park limited permits to posses firearms, access to hunt, or lack of, or who is at the table for management input including allocations.

There is no provision in the treaties to limit any Indigenous groups to hunt, trap or fish with methods and means available pre-European contact or limit to what was available prior to trade in the identified region of JNP or what may have been obtained outside of the noted region. Nor do they identify or limit what is considered as traditional means.

Specific to access to hunt post treaties, identify hunting on unoccupied Crown lands and on any other lands to which the said Indians may have a right of access.
Which in this case was granted by Parks Canada for an identified area within JNP. Privately held nor crown leaseland is applicable here.

As the park is under the authority of Parks Canada, has there been any input from the Province outside of groups like the sheep foundation, one way or the other?

Hmmmm..... this seems to be an admission by Parks Canada and others that these People were conquered.

Lots of issues arise when talking Treaty rights and admissions of Nations being conquered.

[TAK Precision]

There will never be an equal playing field when it comes the hunting. It's the sad truth. But a traditional hunt should be done with the traditional weapons of the time. If no one came to north America they'd probably still be hunting with pointy sticks.

[Smoky buck]

Well one thing is for sure this hunt doesn’t help improve relations between FN and non FN in Alberta or Canada

[Buckhead]

I am surprised after all this time and the many posts that no one has made the connection.

The last hunt in Jasper National Park was in 2017.

In 2017 and 2018 the routing and construction of a certain oil pipeline was being initiated through these areas and territories.

Now, here we are late in 2023 with a certain oil pipeline nearing completion and about to become active.

Another hunt is taking place in Jasper Park.

Once again, our fine Liberal government representatives have been negotiating on our behalf. And the story continues...........

[tbrown]

Every time I hear about the ‘’hunt’’, this is all I can think about.


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